4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[superman3043]

So I think I've pretty much talked myself in to rolling with the "hybrid" lift setup. Toytec actually lets you choose a heavier coil 650# vs 600# with their Radflo 2.0 CO's. I don't know what the OW coil spec was. I'll be choosing the heavier with the anticipation of adding weight to the front, so already my ride will be harsher than it could be, so less pre-load would be ideal. Also, with that added weight, it'll be nice to have the extra adjustment to account for sag when the weight is added. It makes sense to me. We'll see. If I have to play around with it to tweak it and tune it properly than so be it. I'll be sure to share my thoughts.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Thanks for the reply man! I trust yours and Andries thoughts on this. So I guess my point on the droop would be that I would want the proper suspension components and geometry to limit droop, not run out of stroke prematurely with the CO cranked up and having it being the limiting factor. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that this wouldn't be ideal. Is that a valid concern? Have you tested this on yours to where you could verify that this isn't a valid concern? You'd be an ideal candidate since you're at full lift.

The part about not noticing any difference between 2.5" and 3.5", I find a little hard to buy since that is such a huge ratio. Do you feel like it was valid statement?

I'm glad you're happy with your OW's. You're endorsement as well as, well, everyone who's gotten the OW/Radflo's is what has really swayed me in that direction. I've never really heard or read a negative thing about them... well, actually, I came across a post earlier today on tacomaworld while researching this very subject, where a guy went from Radflo's to Icon's and was happier, but oh well.

I think you understand when I say that I don't want to have to do it more times than is necessary. To me the benefits (smoother ride, more "available stroke) seem to all be there in theory. And honestly, we haven't really stated a legitimate con to the set-up. Any you can think of? Guess I should find somebody local with a similar CO setup at full lift to ride with and maybe do my initial install with the "hybrid" set-up to see if there is any noticeable difference. Decisions decisions....

I'm not sure exactly what would be the magic number for a safe amount of down travel. My thought is that this is somewhat of a grey area. If we knew this, we could definitely do some testing to see how the various setups line up.

You've got to remember that while 1" seems like a huge difference, in actuality the coil is only compressed 1/2" more. When I had my Bilstein's, I moved them from the second notch (.85") to the third notch (1.75") and didn't really notice any difference in the ride.

However, you've really got me rethinking this. I know I've read comments where people are saying the can speed up for speed bumps and it still glides right over. Mine does well, but not well enough that I can make that comment. I'm thinking adding a spacer and having less preload on the coil may help here. I cross 15 speed bumps daily, so if this (among other areas) could be improved by adding a spacer and reducing preload, then it's well worth it IMO.

The only complaint I have with the OW front coil overs is that there's a noticeable clunk. At first I thought it was something loose during the install, so I went back over everything I could think of in the front suspension and retorqed to factory specs. The noise was still there, so I e-mailed OW and was told this is normal. I've also read where others have experienced this. It's not all the time, just over certain bumps you'll here the clunk.

I would really like to use the Daystar budget boost front spacer (approx 2" lift) but I'm afraid it would be too much. I'm really considering adding the Toytec 1" net lift spacers to the front. As you pointed out, there is seemingly a ton of benefits and not a lot of proof that there are any cons to the setup. Other than what I posted from the conversation I had with Andries, the other stuff is pure speculation on my part. I agree 100% with your thoughts. I guess the deciding factor would be if we could somehow determine a measurement of the maximum safe amount of droop, until then it's a guessing game.

 

[superman3043]

I'm not sure exactly what would be the magic number for a safe amount of down travel. My thought is that this is somewhat of a grey area. If we knew this, we could definitely do some testing to see how the various setups line up.

You've got to remember that while 1" seems like a huge difference, in actuality the coil is only compressed 1/2" more. When I had my Bilstein's, I moved them from the second notch (.85") to the third notch (1.75") and didn't really notice any difference in the ride.

However, you've really got me rethinking this. I know I've read comments where people are saying the can speed up for speed bumps and it still glides right over. Mine does well, but not well enough that I can make that comment. I'm thinking adding a spacer and having less preload on the coil may help here. I cross 15 speed bumps daily, so if this (among other areas) could be improved by adding a spacer and reducing preload, then it's well worth it IMO.

The only complaint I have with the OW front coil overs is that there's a noticeable clunk. At first I thought it was something loose during the install, so I went back over everything I could think of in the front suspension and retorqed to factory specs. The noise was still there, so I e-mailed OW and was told this is normal. I've also read where others have experienced this. It's not all the time, just over certain bumps you'll here the clunk.

I would really like to use the Daystar budget boost front spacer (approx 2" lift) but I'm afraid it would be too much. I'm really considering adding the Toytec 1" net lift spacers to the front. As you pointed out, there is seemingly a ton of benefits and not a lot of proof that there are any cons to the setup. Other than what I posted from the conversation I had with Andries, the other stuff is pure speculation on my part. I agree 100% with your thoughts. I guess the deciding factor would be if we could somehow determine a measurement of the maximum safe amount of droop, until then it's a guessing game.

Man, I thought I was pretty set on rolling the "hybrid" lift set-up to start.. but this weekend I was able to ride in a fellow members' vehicle and was able to see exactly what you see on yours. It rode beautifully! And here's the kicker, he had OW/Radflo 2.5 with 700# coils and a V6, so it was set-up to ride pretty harsh theoretically, but was silky smooth. Although I do have to mention that he was getting 3+ inches of lift without cranking the coils at all. I'm sure it was because of the HD set-up without any aftermarket nose weight on it (except for a pretty beefy skid plate). So I'm sort of back on the fence now.

I guess there isn't a true linear number for maximum safe droop. It'd have to be more of delta or angular value between say your axle shaft sitting on the ground and then at full droop, since many members seem to see different shaft angles (at rest) post lifts.

Point taken on the front lift numbers. I always neglect to account for that geometry multiplier when considering things.

I'm with you in doing what we can to yield a plusher ride though. Like I said, that truck I drove this weekend rode beautifully, but he literally had no pre-load on his set-up, so I'd expect it too... HD set-up or not. The owner of that vehicle also mention this "clunk" that you're talking about. He thinks it's from the upper rod end at the top of the strut assembly.

Also, after looking at the set-up and speaking with friends about it, to me, it appears that the "allowing more droop" side of the conversation is a moot point. These set-ups are designed to allow plenty of stroke whether at max lift or no lift, there is plenty of available rod length in the shock. We're basically at the mercy of what our ball joints will afford us. So the name of the game seems to be seeking smoother ride and I'm with you on the thought that a 2" net from the spacer might be excessive. Mine are 2.5" net and if I decide to keep them, I'll probably have them machined down to half of that before putting them back in. This is a good conversation though, thank you for the input!

 

[aha2988]

My understanding would be that your upper and lower ball joints would max out before your reach any kind of "damaging" amount of droop so to say. As long as your not going over the 3.5" lift limit your CV's are in no more wear concern than they are with any lift weather using adjustable CO's, spacers, or OME strut towers. I would think to get the softest ride out of an adjustable CO would be to have it set at zero lift, with that said you still want a lift, so put a 1,2, or 3 inch spacer on top of it to gain your lift back with the spacer (pending shock spring rate) to obtain the travel of the CO, as well as gain the ride softness/toughness you desire. then if you add weight you can crank your CO up a little to acount for any sag like Superman descibed.. I think its def. a good thought.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I made a post on 120, I'm going to try to find the extended/compressed lengths of the 2.0 & 2.5 kits. I see the 2.5" listed as extended travel, so I'm thinking it's got a larger range of travel. In my mind, if that's correct then there shouldn't be any issues adding a spacer to the 2.0 kit to match the extended length of the 2.5 kit. I had to completely max out the front coilovers to get 3.5" lift, so this is still a big concern and something I'll continue to look into. It's not that I'm disappointed with the current ride, it's just that with less preload I think it could be better.

 

[superman3043]

I made a post on 120, I'm going to try to find the extended/compressed lengths of the 2.0 & 2.5 kits. I see the 2.5" listed as extended travel, so I'm thinking it's got a larger range of travel. In my mind, if that's correct then there shouldn't be any issues adding a spacer to the 2.0 kit to match the extended length of the 2.5 kit. I had to completely max out the front coilovers to get 3.5" lift, so this is still a big concern and something I'll continue to look into. It's not that I'm disappointed with the current ride, it's just that with less preload I think it could be better.

Oh, didn't think there was a length difference in the shock bodies between the 2.0 and 2.5, but if you're at full crank, then yeah, that makes a big difference and what I learned over the weekend wasn't really that helpful. Unless I go 2.5 ... but now that you've mentioned it, I have seen the "extended travel" tag-line associated with the 2.5's, so makes sense.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Oh, didn't think there was a length difference in the shock bodies between the 2.0 and 2.5, but if you're at full crank, then yeah, that makes a big difference and what I learned over the weekend wasn't really that helpful. Unless I go 2.5 ... but now that you've mentioned it, I have seen the "extended travel" tag-line associated with the 2.5's, so makes sense.

I'm hoping that's the case, if so I'm most likely going to add a .5"-1"thick spacer (depending on specs of the 2.5 shocks) and see what happens.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Oh, didn't think there was a length difference in the shock bodies between the 2.0 and 2.5, but if you're at full crank, then yeah, that makes a big difference and what I learned over the weekend wasn't really that helpful. Unless I go 2.5 ... but now that you've mentioned it, I have seen the "extended travel" tag-line associated with the 2.5's, so makes sense.

Just got a response from Glenn at Radflo, the 2.0 and 2.5 shocks have the same lengths, so I'm scratching the idea of using spacers. It seems the 2.5 extended travel phrase is mis-used. I didn't notice much difference when switching the 5100s to different settings, so I'm going to assume the same will be true here. Also, I know the guys at OW spent tons of time getting these built right, I will follow their suggestion not to combine the coilovers with spacers.

 

[paquitox]

Will the 2011 FJ coils fit my runner? I've read the suspension sticky, which states 2007 +, but I've also read that 2010 will need some modification to be used on T4R......If I only use the coils (2011 FJ) Would I still need to do some modifications?? My plans are to do the FJ coil swap + stock shocks + Daystar 2.5/1.5......

Any help is deeply appreciated

 

[superman3043]

Just got a response from Glenn at Radflo, the 2.0 and 2.5 shocks have the same lengths, so I'm scratching the idea of using spacers. It seems the 2.5 extended travel phrase is mis-used. I didn't notice much difference when switching the 5100s to different settings, so I'm going to assume the same will be true here. Also, I know the guys at OW spent tons of time getting these built right, I will follow their suggestion not to combine the coilovers with spacers.

I don't know how I missed this post...

But fair enough. I think I'm done chasing this one as well and am gonna probably just do the coilovers on their own.

Thanks for all of your help man!

 

[aha2988]

I don't know how I missed this post...

But fair enough. I think I'm done chasing this one as well and am gonna probably just do the coilovers on their own.

Thanks for all of your help man!

come on PD we have to atleast try the spacer idea out just to see its not like you dont have a set lol ill help with whrench time and beer costs!

 

[aha2988]

Will the 2011 FJ coils fit my runner? I've read the suspension sticky, which states 2007 +, but I've also read that 2010 will need some modification to be used on T4R......If I only use the coils (2011 FJ) Would I still need to do some modifications?? My plans are to do the FJ coil swap + stock shocks + Daystar 2.5/1.5......

Any help is deeply appreciated

Go ahead and buy some rear coils from toy tec, the superflex or the icon 2" lift rear coils will give you a much better ride than the day star and the FJ swap.

If you raise the height of the vehicle your going to want to upgrade from stock shocks, you'll need longer shocks to accomidate the hieght change. i think the 5100's are the popular choice for this setup.

 

[superman3043]

come on PD we have to atleast try the spacer idea out just to see its not like you dont have a set lol ill help with whrench time and beer costs!

I'm down to give it a go. Ain't nothin' but a thang dawg!

 

[paquitox]

Go ahead and buy some rear coils from toy tec, the superflex or the icon 2" lift rear coils will give you a much better ride than the day star and the FJ swap.

If you raise the height of the vehicle your going to want to upgrade from stock shocks, you'll need longer shocks to accomidate the hieght change. i think the 5100's are the popular choice for this setup.

I thought that with FJ coils you only get like 1/2" to 1" lift, and that you could keep your stock shocks. thats why I intended to add the 2.5" lift from Daystar. Trying to save some $$ for tires and other stuff( wheel spacers, seat covers, bike rack, Yakima fairing, you get the point) No really a need for an extreme lift, maybe some snow driving during winter, but mainly for looks. T4R got only 50K miles, so I'll wait a bit until I change the whole suspension and do a proper lift.

 

[aha2988]

I thought that with FJ coils you only get like 1/2" to 1" lift, and that you could keep your stock shocks. thats why I intended to add the 2.5" lift from Daystar. Trying to save some $$ for tires and other stuff( wheel spacers, seat covers, bike rack, Yakima fairing, you get the point) No really a need for an extreme lift, maybe some snow driving during winter, but mainly for looks. T4R got only 50K miles, so I'll wait a bit until I change the whole suspension and do a proper lift.

I understand trying to save some money for other options (just priced lockers trust me lol) although If you do plan to do a different lift later it's really more practical to just do it now (time is money) and your doubling the time your going to be laboring in your truck. If you dont mind the extra labor then your setups fine (i cant speak for the 2011 FJ coils dont know the first thing about them) If it turns out the 2011's dont work i have a buddy with an FJ that may be lifting soon ill see if he wants to part with his coils im not sure what year it is but its closer to 07 than 11 lol.

 

[paquitox]

I understand trying to save some money for other options (just priced lockers trust me lol) although If you do plan to do a different lift later it's really more practical to just do it now (time is money) and your doubling the time your going to be laboring in your truck. If you dont mind the extra labor then your setups fine (i cant speak for the 2011 FJ coils dont know the first thing about them) If it turns out the 2011's dont work i have a buddy with an FJ that may be lifting soon ill see if he wants to part with his coils im not sure what year it is but its closer to 07 than 11 lol.

Yeah, I was really into getting the whole shebang: 5100's + OME, but money its a little tight and I REALLY need some new tires. Running the factory Duelers with almost no tread.

Appreciated it bro, thanks for the help! Let me know if your buddy parts with them, i'll be interested.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Aha is right, if you know you want something else from the start, better to save and go that route to start.

However, the daystar + fj coil setup will work if you choose this option. The 2011 coils will work (the shocks require modification to fit due to differences in the mounts). With approx 2" lift in the rear, you will loose downtravel with the stock shocks. It's possible that you'll notice it bottoming out more over large bumps. It'll work, just isn't ideal. If you were doing only the fj coils then it would be different, but combined with the spacer you're looking at 2"+ lift and you could start to notice the lack of downtravel with stock shocks.

The fj coils and superflex are very similar, the superflex coils are slightly stiffer (roughly 5%, not enough to make a noticeable difference) and have an extra coil wind to provide more lift. Ride should be very close between the fj coils/spacer and superflex.

You can look into the 5100s, they would allow you to take full advantage of the lift (with a 2" lift there's no loss in downtravel) and also won't break the bank at around $330 a set. Again, stock shocks would do fine, a lot of people run a similar setup, there are just drawbacks you need to be aware of.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Yeah, I was really into getting the whole shebang: 5100's + OME, but money its a little tight and I REALLY need some new tires. Running the factory Duelers with almost no tread.

Appreciated it bro, thanks for the help! Let me know if your buddy parts with them, i'll be interested.

I didn't see this post when I typed my reply, not gonna edit it though.

You can run the setup you first mentioned for now if money is tight. Even cheaper, you can pick up a 2" front spacer and 1.5" rear spacer for $80 from 4wheelparts.com. Combine these with the fj coils and you'll have approx 2.75" front and 2" rear lift.

IMO, I'd do this and get the tires you want/need. This will give you clearance to fit a larger tire, and you can easily add to this later. Later on, you can get 5100s to finish it off. You'll be able to keep the spacers and fj coils with the 5100 setup. You could sell the front spacer at that point (5100s can be adjusted for lift) and be out very little money. The only catch is that if you are planning to pay to have this done, may be best to get the shocks at the same time, or decide to not get them at all.

 

[paquitox]

I didn't see this post when I typed my reply, not gonna edit it though.

You can run the setup you first mentioned for now if money is tight. Even cheaper, you can pick up a 2" front spacer and 1.5" rear spacer for $80 from 4wheelparts.com. Combine these with the fj coils and you'll have approx 2.75" front and 2" rear lift.

IMO, I'd do this and get the tires you want/need. This will give you clearance to fit a larger tire, and you can easily add to this later. Later on, you can get 5100s to finish it off. You'll be able to keep the spacers and fj coils with the 5100 setup. You could sell the front spacer at that point (5100s can be adjusted for lift) and be out very little money. The only catch is that if you are planning to pay to have this done, may be best to get the shocks at the same time, or decide to not get them at all.

Yeah, thanks man. Maybe I can save some more and get the 5100's and the FJ coils, and just set the Blist to .85" in the front. That will give me enough clearance to run 265/70/R17 BFG AT....If I could get my hands in on a set of FJ coils for $100 or less and looking at around $420 +-. Considering a coworker mechanic offered to help with the install.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Yeah, thanks man. Maybe I can save some more and get the 5100's and the FJ coils, and just set the Blist to .85" in the front. That will give me enough clearance to run 265/70/R17 BFG AT....If I could get my hands in on a set of FJ coils for $100 or less and looking at around $420 +-. Considering a coworker mechanic offered to help with the install.

That sounds like a good plan, all depends on your budget.