4th Gen Suspension Options/FAQ

[FRT]

I "think" I found the right 5100s on AJUsa.com. These look right? If so, you're right, they're still the cheapest place to buy'm.

Funny thing is the Bilstein site didn't have this rear listed as being correct either.

Bilstein Monotube Shock Absorber
Part #: 33-187174
$71.25 each

Bilstein Monotube Shock Absorber
Part #: 24-186711
$97.26 each

Total: $337.02 (free shipping)

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

I "think" I found the right 5100s on AJUsa.com. These look right? If so, you're right, they're still the cheapest place to buy'm.

Funny thing is the Bilstein site didn't have this rear listed as being correct either.

Bilstein Monotube Shock Absorber
Part #: 33-187174
$71.25 each

Bilstein Monotube Shock Absorber
Part #: 24-186711
$97.26 each

Total: $337.02 (free shipping)

I'm not too familiar with the ball joints, don't want to steer you wrong on that one. I was just saying I've not seen a lot of info on the Camburg's.

A few months ago Bilstein updated their info and it no longer shows rear shocks for the 4th gen....this is where AJUSA got their info from (it's not a fault of AJUSA). Since Bilstein doesn't list them, neither does AJUSA. I ordered rear 5100's from AJUSA before this change, they listed part number 33-187174 which is what you have, so that should work.

 

[FRT]

I'm not too familiar with the ball joints, don't want to steer you wrong on that one. I was just saying I've not seen a lot of info on the Camburg's.

A few months ago Bilstein updated their info and it no longer shows rear shocks for the 4th gen....this is where AJUSA got their info from (it's not a fault of AJUSA). Since Bilstein doesn't list them, neither does AJUSA. I ordered rear 5100's from AJUSA before this change, they listed part number 33-187174 which is what you have, so that should work.

No worries, I appreciate all the info you've provided already.
I did some more reading in the fj cruiser forums which compared the various UCAs, and if I'm reading it correctly, the Camburgs actually DON'T offer adjustment for camber, just more clearance and less stress on the ball joints (like most/all aftermarket UCAs), so Light Racing it is, offering camber and caster adjustment. Still unsure about the ball joint though. Per the FJ thread, of the adjustable UCAs, they all have greasable urethane bushings, except the Light Racing which has non greasable rubber, but I’m not sure if that’s in reference to all the bushings, the ball joint or just the mount point bushings…

Still researching... :ybrick:

EDIT: Ha, I posted too soon. So it seems the Light Racing UCAs use the poly mount point bushings, so the non greasable rubber must be in reference to the ball joint (OEM style)... so now I just need to decide if I want to swap those out with the greasable Moog ball joints.
EDIT2: The other thing I'm not sure of, and might be my reason to leave the LR UCAs ball joint alone, is that although the ball joint is OEM styled, it may not be the same size and therefore the Moog ball joints might not fit.

 

[superman3043]

You won't be able to use an OE style ball joint in the LR UCA. The design of the LR ball joint assembly is actually where you get all of your adjust-ability (caster, camber) from.

Edit: I take that back.. They could possibly be swapped.

 

[FRT]

You won't be able to use an OE style ball joint in the LR UCA. The design of the LR ball joint assembly is actually where you get all of your adjust-ability (caster, camber) from.

Awesome, thanks for clarifying / verifying that for me.

EDIT: removed confusing part from posting toooo quick.

 

[superman3043]

Awesome, thanks for clarifying / verifying that for me.

Yeah, I went back and edited it, because I might have spoken too soon. IIRC, the old design could actually re-use the factory BJ, so I guess it is actually possible. Haven't done it from experience, but I'm sure if you get them, You'll be able to see if is a serviceable/replaceable item. Not sure if I can see it in mine, but I'll have a look when I step out for lunch.

 

[LTDSC]

No worries, I appreciate all the info you've provided already.
I did some more reading in the fj cruiser forums which compared the various UCAs, and if I'm reading it correctly, the Camburgs actually DON'T offer adjustment for camber, just more clearance and less stress on the ball joints (like most/all aftermarket UCAs), so Light Racing it is, offering camber and caster adjustment. Still unsure about the ball joint though. Per the FJ thread, of the adjustable UCAs, they all have greasable urethane bushings, except the Light Racing which has non greasable rubber, but I’m not sure if that’s in reference to all the bushings, the ball joint or just the mount point bushings…

Still researching... :ybrick:

EDIT: Ha, I posted too soon. So it seems the Light Racing UCAs use the poly mount point bushings, so the non greasable rubber must be in reference to the ball joint (OEM style)... so now I just need to decide if I want to swap those out with the greasable Moog ball joints.
EDIT2: The other thing I'm not sure of, and might be my reason to leave the LR UCAs ball joint alone, is that although the ball joint is OEM styled, it may not be the same size and therefore the Moog ball joints might not fit.

How much more adjustment will you need to justify the cost of the LR UCAs? I know they're pricey considering the cost of the Camburg arms but if they add the much needed adjustments for alignment then its well worth it.

I'm curious as i'm getting all my info in a row before i start saving.

 

[FRT]

How much more adjustment will you need to justify the cost of the LR UCAs? I know they're pricey considering the cost of the Camburg arms but if they add the much needed adjustments for alignment then its well worth it.

I'm curious as i'm getting all my info in a row before i start saving.

The LR UCAs with OEM style ball joint are $410 from wheelers, whereas the Camburg are $379. After all my looking at it, the LR UCAs are a much better deal. You'll need the camber/caster after the lift to get your alignment on point. Depends on several factors like how much of a lift / tires, etc.

Oh and also, with the Camburgs, you'll have to reuse the existing ball joints, or buy new ones, so it's about the same price.... LR UCAs all the way.

 

[FRT]

Yeah, I went back and edited it, because I might have spoken too soon. IIRC, the old design could actually re-use the factory BJ, so I guess it is actually possible. Haven't done it from experience, but I'm sure if you get them, You'll be able to see if is a serviceable/replaceable item. Not sure if I can see it in mine, but I'll have a look when I step out for lunch.

Do appreciate. Was it fact about the LR ball joint being designed for the improved adjustment-ability? If so, then the OEM/Moog replacement part would be a lesser option, other than Moog giving the greasable option. If that is the case, I'd just leave the LR ball joint as is.

 

[superman3043]

It definitely can be separated from the the upper plate, but as far as being replaceable by an OE style replacement, I still really can't speak to that.

But there isn't really much to a ball joint... I mean, it's a ball and a socket. How great or crappy can they really be? I can say that the LR boot is very high quality compared to the OE.

Just get them. Then you'll see that it's a quality component. Run them and if down the line, you want to try to find a grease-able solution to swap the part out with, then pursue that avenue. In my eyes, there really isn't any sense in replacing a perfectly good, new, part unless there is a huge benefit by doing so. This instance doesn't seem to fit that mold. A TON of us run these UCA's and if somebody found a huge benefit in replacing the LR supplied ball joint with the next greatest widget, I'm sure we all would have been made aware of it by now.

Hope that helps.

 

[FRT]

It definitely can be separated from the the upper plate, but as far as being replaceable by an OE style replacement, I still really can't speak to that.

But there isn't really much to a ball joint... I mean, it's a ball and a socket. How great or crappy can they really be? I can say that the LR boot is very high quality compared to the OE.

Just get them. Then you'll see that it's a quality component. Run them and if down the line, you want to try to find a grease-able solution to swap the part out with, then pursue that avenue. In my eyes, there really isn't any sense in replacing a perfectly good, new, part unless there is a huge benefit by doing so. This instance doesn't seem to fit that mold. A TON of us run these UCA's and if somebody found a huge benefit in replacing the LR supplied ball joint with the next greatest widget, I'm sure we all would have been made aware of it by now.

Hope that helps.

That was the direction I've been leaning after all the reading and everyone's input. I'll leave'm as is. Appreciate it.


Oh, one more question for the collective mind.
Since the UCA bushings are being replaced by/with the new LR UCA, and I'm grabbing the poly bushings for the front/rear sway bars, should I go ahead and get the full Energy Suspension bushing kit and do it all? Front LCA, swaybars, rear CAs, etc? Since dang near all the suspension is going to be disassembled at some point.

 

[superman3043]

That was the direction I've been leaning after all the reading and everyone's input. I'll leave'm as is. Appreciate it.


Oh, one more question for the collective mind.
Since the UCA bushings are being replaced by/with the new LR UCA, and I'm grabbing the poly bushings for the front/rear sway bars, should I go ahead and get the full Energy Suspension bushing kit and do it all? Front LCA, swaybars, rear CAs, etc? Since dang near all the suspension is going to be disassembled at some point.

I guess it really depends on what you're trying to get out of doing the bushing swap. I've swapped out my front sway bar, pan-hard bar, and rear end-link bushings. I never did the rear because every set I ordered was the wrong size. Seems the V8's have a thicker rear sway-bar than everyone else's. I finally did figure out the right size, but haven't bothered to do the swap.

So what I learned from doing the poly swap:

- The front sway bar did yield a flatter turn. This is the benifit that some look for. I'm no longer running them, because I'm no longer running a front sway bar.

- The pan-hard bar... meh, don't really think it made a difference and the stock bushings were a PITA to press out.

- The end-links, again don't feel like this really did much.

After speaking with a friend of mine about it, I think we prefer the rubber vs the poly bushings for the type of wheeling we do. They just give better off-road.

So, if you want everything to be nice and tight and stiff, then yeah, by all means, you can do the poly swap. It's certainly not for everybody.

Hope that helps.

 

[FRT]

I guess it really depends on what you're trying to get out of doing the bushing swap. I've swapped out my front sway bar, pan-hard bar, and rear end-link bushings. I never did the rear because every set I ordered was the wrong size. Seems the V8's have a thicker rear sway-bar than everyone else's. I finally did figure out the right size, but haven't bothered to do the swap.

So what I learned from doing the poly swap:

- The front sway bar did yield a flatter turn. This is the benifit that some look for. I'm no longer running them, because I'm no longer running a front sway bar.

- The pan-hard bar... meh, don't really think it made a difference and the stock bushings were a PITA to press out.

- The end-links, again don't feel like this really did much.

After speaking with a friend of mine about it, I think we prefer the rubber vs the poly bushings for the type of wheeling we do. They just give better off-road.

So, if you want everything to be nice and tight and stiff, then yeah, by all means, you can do the poly swap. It's certainly not for everybody.

Hope that helps.

Thanks man, that actually helps a lot. So even though this is going to be a toy at some point, for the next couple of months it's still our daily driver, and I have a heavy foot, so I think the polys might be the choice for the tight n stiff handling. I'm really not sure if the bushings need replacing or not, but I figured with 177K on her and since I'm swapping out so much anyways, I might as well hit up the the remaining bushings as well. I'll look around at the various bushing kits / sets and go from there.

Thanks much to everyone. :hatsoff:

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

Great discussion guys! I went with the LR but mainly because I found a great deal on them, didn't do any real research into it.

For info on the swaybar bushing upgrade, see this thread. You'll notice the OP even states it's not a mod for off road use, but does make a noticeable difference on road (can't say whether that was due to the poly bushings or just new bushings, but it made a difference).

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/34115-swaybar-bushing-upgrade.html

 

[FRT]

Great discussion guys! I went with the LR but mainly because I found a great deal on them, didn't do any real research into it.

For info on the swaybar bushing upgrade, see this thread. You'll notice the OP even states it's not a mod for off road use, but does make a noticeable difference on road (can't say whether that was due to the poly bushings or just new bushings, but it made a difference).

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/34115-swaybar-bushing-upgrade.html

Aye. Love this site for that.

Great find with that link, just what I was looking for. Like the OP, I drive fast and hard... like I stole it. =P

Thanks again Ark.

 

[LTDSC]

stupid question im sure that has been asked a bunch but hang with me.

My 03 Limited doesnt have the air height control. So which rear shocks do i have then? RAS or XREAS? Its confusing.

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

stupid question im sure that has been asked a bunch but hang with me.

My 03 Limited doesnt have the air height control. So which rear shocks do i have then? RAS or XREAS? Its confusing.

The air height control is referred to as RAS, so you do not have RAS. It is still possible that you could have the xreas system, it was an option on the limited models. Look at the shocks and if you see lines attached to them then you have xreas.

 

[WV4RUNNERS]

OK, I am trying to maximize my tire size with a stock wheel on an 08
4runner. I am about to purchase a toytec 3" spacer lift kit. I have found that multiple forums list different specs that don't jive.

I am trying to stay in the 32-33" and width 10-10.5" range. I really do not want to change any other aspects of the suspension, wheel wells or body mods.

Also, what is the maximum tire width that will fit a stock rim?

Please any help is greatly appreciated. I will also welcome all lesson's learned!

Tires I have considered are BFG's, Nitto, Cooper or Goodyear.

Thanks..............

 

[LTDSC]

The air height control is referred to as RAS, so you do not have RAS. It is still possible that you could have the xreas system, it was an option on the limited models. Look at the shocks and if you see lines attached to them then you have xreas.

damn, i have the xreas system. Now i gotta research on what to do lift wise.

So quick question, with a spacer lift on the rear to keep my xreas system. Do the shocks extend that far or so i need a mount that lowers it? Or is it just fine to run the spacer on the rear with the shocks still there in factory location?

 

[ARK_SWAMP_RIDER]

OK, I am trying to maximize my tire size with a stock wheel on an 08
4runner. I am about to purchase a toytec 3" spacer lift kit. I have found that multiple forums list different specs that don't jive.

I am trying to stay in the 32-33" and width 10-10.5" range. I really do not want to change any other aspects of the suspension, wheel wells or body mods.

Also, what is the maximum tire width that will fit a stock rim?

Please any help is greatly appreciated. I will also welcome all lesson's learned!

Tires I have considered are BFG's, Nitto, Cooper or Goodyear.

Thanks..............

I'd suggest either a 275/70/17 (32.15" X 10.82") or 255/75/17 (32.05" X 10.03"). Depending on the type of tire you're looking for, you may have difficulty finding them in these sizes. A 265/70/17 (31.60" X 10.43") has more available tire options but is shorter than what you were looking for. I'd personally go 275/70/17....if you can get the tire you want in that size. You shouldn't have any rubbing with any of these sizes as long as you run stock wheels and no wheel spacers.

I'd say max width for stock rims would be around 11.5" wide, but plenty of folks have run wider (not necessarily on the 4th gen, but other rigs with similar size wheels).

damn, i have the xreas system. Now i gotta research on what to do lift wise.

If you've got low mileage, no signs of leaking shocks, and can do the work yourself, I'd recommend a spacer lift. If you frequently off road and need every bit of travel you can get, it would be worth it to upgrade to something else. Spacers lifts give extra clearance and allow you to maintain the factory ride.