4th Gen to 5th Gen...talk to me.

[atalarico]

Hey all,

I've been toying with the idea of selling my 2016 Golf R and my 2004 T4R and just getting a used 5th Gen Trail or TRD Pro. I no longer have a 60 mile (round-trip) 5 day a week commute (it's just two days now) and my reasons for owning the Golf R are dwindling as the reliability issues come to the fore. I was contemplating just dumping that money into the 4Runner I have, but honestly it's not in the best shape and I think I'd be pouring money into a weak foundation. While I like the V8, I think it'll be a while before I can justify the expense of putting in these DT headers I have to fix the exhaust tick (which is really bad now). Also, I don't like how it has taken the recent upgrade to 33's, as it's plagued by steering and alignment issues and new suspension creaks/moans. I wish it had a locker too, but overall I just don't have a ton of confidence in it like I did with my 3rd gen.

So, that means I either find another 4th Gen that's in better shape (2009 Trail Edition unicorn?), fix the one I have, or jump to a 5th Gen.

I've heard a lot about the lack of power in the 5th Gens especially when they go to 33's, but how bad is it really? I had a 3rd Gen with 32's, so it can't be that bad, can it?

What are other things that the 4th Gen does better than the 5th and vice versa?

What do you think of my plan anyway?

 

[TR0N1C]

5th gen isn't bad

I had a v8 4th Gen for too long. I really didn't want to step down to a v6. I eventually needed 2 more seats.
I searched for a comparably priced GX. The GX drove just like the v8 4Runner, but has a nicer interior. I liked the lift up-back door, and roll-down back window too much to go with a Lexus.
I bought an almost new 5th gen Limited. It has everything the Lexus + the Toyota has -2 cylinders. Honestly, the power difference is noticable, but I got used to it and like it more every day. I do miss the sound of the v8 more than anything.
The 4th gen Sport and the 5th gen Limited both have Full-Time 4WD, and XREAS suspension. They feel the same driving on and off-road in normal conditions but...
The 5th gen drives better in extreme conditions on and off-road. It takes corners better and can clear bigger rocks than the already impressive 4th gen.
The very attractive wheels on the Limited edition have thin sidewalls and may help with on-road handling. The stock tires are narrower and I have seen a weakness in driving in loose sand. The Limited has very little risk of getting stuck, but it is harder to drive it in a streight line and is a bit rougher than the stock tires of the 4th gen Sport Edition on sand.

Over all, I would say, if you are need to repair your 4th gen, it's cheaper than a car payment. If you are tired of the tape-deck, you can get an after-market radio. If there is some feature that you want, get a 5th gen. It comes with newer parts, more features, and is just as good as your 4th gen.
I do like Golf Rs, though.

 

[mrblah]

i'd keep the v8

 

[Tejas]

I hear ailing/aging fleet in need of repair, half of which is no longer of need/value. I don't know your finances, but if I were in your shoes, I would sell your current vehicles and put that money into a late model Trail/TRD OR or Pro and milk another 10+ out of it.

I am not sure how many miles are on your 4th Gen, but if it's anywhere near 200K I wouldn't bother throwing much at it. I am also not a fan of the idea of only having one older, high mileage vehicle as my only or main form of transportation when a daily commute is involved. Getting to and from work reliably is for more important than saving a few pennies every month.

I am sure that you will get a dozen different answers here, each more sound and logical than the next, but I think the best call is to move to a 5th Gen. The motor isn't all that impressive when you touch the skinny pedal but I believe a lot of that has to do with the gearing and transmission. At the end of the day though, that motor is dead nuts reliable and proven and in my book that accounts for far more than fun performance. It is after all a mid-size 4WD SUV, not a sports car.

Good luck in your search and with selling your current vehicles, 5th Gen gets my vote.

 

[Olddudesrule]

I really think the lack of power, while generally a fact, has been a bit, how do I say...:deadhorse:. I sold a Gen5 1LE Camaro, supercharged, 550rwhp, to buy my 4Runner, so I get it. Not super responsive, pick up kind of lacking, but I'm totally ok with it. It cruises fine on the highway, gets appropriate mileage for it's size and weight, and on the trails, where it shines, the power is just fine. Really no different than the 2005 Tacoma TRDOR I had......

As far as the cost of keeping and maintaining your 4th Gen as opposed to buying a used 5th Gen, I would vote for the 5th Gen. You'll get years of worry free, low expense work out of the vehicle.

 

[97BlackAckCL]

I owned 2 x 4th gens before buying my 2017 5th gen. I owned an 03 Sport and an 08 SR5. I owned both 4.0 V6's, but I really don't feel that the power is that different. The 5th gen is a bit slower on throttle response with the drive by wire throttle, but there are ways around it. I'm sure going from a V8 to the 4.0 you will notice a difference, but I'm quite happy with my 5th gen and the comfort and newer features that it offers. Just my 2 cents

 

[ray k]

First of all, how many miles are on your 4runner? Second, I would suggest you go test drive one and judge for yourself. They're both very good but very different too. It's really a matter of personal taste.

 

[atalarico]

Thanks for the responses all! After a little of my own research it sounds like the throttle response is the issue and not necessarily power (it shines at higher rpms, etc). I could easily get a pedal box for that or keep it in sport. I’d definitely be looking at a lift to accommodate 33” tires.

My current 4th gen has 158k on the clock. Like I said, I came from a 3rd gen on 32” tires that was constantly in the high rpm range trying to get up passes here in Colorado while maintaining 70mph. I just don’t want a repeat of that, and I’d like to have a truck full of camping or climbing gear and not be struggling up the highways.

Getting rid of the R would free up a lot of cash that I could throw at the truck. I’m really torn, but yeah I think finding a 5th gen with a lift and bigger tires to test drive would help.

 

[teotwaki]

I went from a 2005 4th gen to a 2018 5th gen. I babied the new one during break in and it did seem to have less power on the street but that isn't true. The new one is set up to go for the best mileage possible and if you drive it gently it does quite well, maybe a bit better than the 4th gen. On a recent 2 hour freeway drive at 65 - 70 MPH non-stop I calculated 22 MPG and that was with the new Falken all terrains, no tail winds or headwinds.

Now I have over 8K miles on the 5th gen and if I want acceleration I let it rev up higher than the old one could. The manual shifting is the trick for acceleration or towing. I am quite happy with the new engine both on and off road.

 

[Big_Cuss]

I honestly think a ton of folks are confusing V8 noise with power.

The 4.7L makes a lot of low end torque, but falls off really fast. Horsepower isn't that high, either.

If you dyno'd the current 4.0L agains the older 4.7L, you'd probably find that the 4.7L has about 25-30 ft-lbs of peak torque more than the 4.0L, but dropping off fast, with lower total horsepower, and very slightly more drivetrain losses.

I bet you'd also find the 4.0L is faster 0-60, even with a family of 3-4 in it. You'd only notice the 4.7L being faster towing a trailer.

Combine that with 10-15% better MPG, and it just seems like a toss-up for a car that should only be towing around 5,000 lbs anyways due to wheelbase and spring softness.

The V8 just has a more pleasing deep rumble, which peopl equate to power. It's hard not to... I've noticed the phenonemon with adding a header to my car that actually reduced torque a bit, but the sound was so incredible I thought the car was faster.

 

[Cadesun]

I went from an '05 SR5 to a '15 Trail with premium interior. There is a bit less umph but to be honest, I never thought the 4th gens had much power either. The creature comforts on the other hand, have been massively upgraded. The KDSS also makes highway cornering and gravel travel feel much smoother.

 

[Toffees]

Thanks for the responses all! After a little of my own research it sounds like the throttle response is the issue and not necessarily power (it shines at higher rpms, etc). I could easily get a pedal box for that or keep it in sport. I’d definitely be looking at a lift to accommodate 33” tires.

My current 4th gen has 158k on the clock. Like I said, I came from a 3rd gen on 32” tires that was constantly in the high rpm range trying to get up passes here in Colorado while maintaining 70mph. I just don’t want a repeat of that, and I’d like to have a truck full of camping or climbing gear and not be struggling up the highways.

Getting rid of the R would free up a lot of cash that I could throw at the truck. I’m really torn, but yeah I think finding a 5th gen with a lift and bigger tires to test drive would help.

Get rid of your Golf R and drive your 4R as a daily driver for a month or so. The shock of speed/power difference will be greater between the Golf and the 5th gen, but you will attribute it to a difference between your 4th and 5th gen. Do a lot of test driving with different options. Then after a few weeks you should have your mind made up. You'll miss the nimble Golf R, but if you give yourself a little separation, you won't rebound and sell the 5th gen and you can use the time and money saved to waste it on a rebound GF.

 

[atalarico]

Get rid of your Golf R and drive your 4R as a daily driver for a month or so. The shock of speed/power difference will be greater between the Golf and the 5th gen, but you will attribute it to a difference between your 4th and 5th gen. Do a lot of test driving with different options. Then after a few weeks you should have your mind made up. You'll miss the nimble Golf R, but if you give yourself a little separation, you won't rebound and sell the 5th gen and you can use the time and money saved to waste it on a rebound GF.

That is a really smart way to go about it since it's like titrating your dosage of a drug you're weening off! Don't get me wrong, I love driving the R, but do I love it at the expense I'm currently paying and with the worrying amount it's been to the dealership for warranty issues? Plus with all of the time I've been spending in the 4Runner again because it's been at the dealership so much has made me realize that I wouldn't mind spending more time in the 4Runner if it was better sorted out.

 

[Off-choader]

I have a stage2 GTI and a 5th gen, If I had to get rid of one it would be the GTI but man I would hate to make that decision. The GTI gets me to and from work in crappy 1.5 hr traffic commute and saves me miles on the 4runner which I use for everything else.

 

[Jeffy]

As far as power between the two: I had a 4th gen v8 and swapped to a 5th gen. As someone else said, it's not so much that the v6 is slower, it's where the power is in the RPM range. The v8 has more torque in the low end whereas the v6 power is all at high RPMs. This definitely makes the v8 feel a lot faster because you get much more neck-snapping power off the line. I've heard the v6 accurately described as feeling like a turbo kicking in because you don't get the power for a few seconds until the RPMs get high enough. In reality, the 0-60 times between the two vehicles are so close that there's really no difference, it's all about how it feels coming off the line. Also, the way the throttle is mapped on the 5th gen means you pretty much have to mash the pedal to the floor before it starts opening up. You can fix that with a pedal commander if you really want to though. Bottom line, these are not fast vehicles no matter what.

Other notes on switching: the 5th gen definitely feels a lot more roomy and comfortable inside, and at 6'1" I appreciated that. Everything else (looks, interior design, etc.) is subjective and up to your personal preference.

One more thing to consider is what you'll be using the vehicle for. If it's going to be used frequently I'd definitely go with the 5th gen for the newer and more comfortable interior. If it's going to be primarily a trail rig, save the money and get a 4th gen, then use that money for mods to make it more trail-ready.

 

[A10MileHusker]

I went from a built 2005 V8 Sport Edition to a 2018 TRD Off Road Premium. The power difference is there but, as mentioned, its really all in the low end side. The 5th gen has plenty of power. It also is a lot more comfortable.
I took my 5th gen with 285's, no lift, to Moab and ran White Rim trail and had no issues. No scrapes, no spots I couldn't make. There is no way I would have been able to do that with the 4th gen (before my lift). The 4th gen's a lot lower than the 5th and has way less ground clearance for a stock vehicle.
When I sold my 4th gen it was definitely difficult. But I was spending so much money and time maintaining it that it was becoming more of an expense than what I am spending on my financing my 5th gen. I too had that engine tick and it drove me nuts. I didn't want to drop a lot of money into a rig that had almost 200k miles. Then, while in Bend, OR for Christmas vacation my now fiancee had to drive back down to Portland to work. I put her in my 4th gen thinking it would be the safest option. Halfway down the mountain she couldn't go over 25 miles per hour. The air pump went out and put the engine in "idiot mode." While it did get her home safely the 3 hour drive to 6 hours and was not safe. $1500 later it was fixed again. So if you haven't had that expense yet, it is a common issue with the V8's and should be expected.

Long Story short, I would get into a 5th gen and be rest assured for the many years ahead. It has plenty of power, its comfortable and I'm not wasting money on maintenance. Just my 2 cents

 

[Jeffy]

The air pump went out and put the engine in "idiot mode." While it did get her home safely the 3 hour drive to 6 hours and was not safe. $1500 later it was fixed again. So if you haven't had that expense yet, it is a common issue with the V8's and should be expected.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that air pump only exists on the VVTi engines, which are '05+. He has an '04 so that shouldn't be an issue.

Not to nitpick, just wanted to point that out

 

[A10MileHusker]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that air pump only exists on the VVTi engines, which are '05+. He has an '04 so that shouldn't be an issue.

Not to nitpick, just wanted to point that out

Ah! Something I wasn't aware of.

 

[Jeffy]

Ah! Something I wasn't aware of.

I wouldn't have known either except my v8 was an '03, so I didn't get that extra 5hp from the VVTi. Doesn't matter now that we've both got 5th gens!

 

[IanB]

I've had an '04 GX470 for years, and recently picked up a '15 4Runner Ltd. On paper the V6 makes better power than my '04 GX470's V8, but on the road the V8 makes good power right off throttle, whereas the V6 makes its power high in the rev range, and the auto doesn't let you access that power unless you are DEEP into the gas pedal or manually shift which isn't how I like to drive ALL THE TIME.

A Pedal Commander or Spring Boost unit to recalibrate the throttle by wire would likely do wonders for the V6, including affect how the transmission shifts. Those that have them rave about them.

For passing on the highway power, the V6 is very comparable to the V8. For running to the store to grab some milk, the V8 wins hands down. For fuel economy, the V6 gets the nod. The V8 makes cooler noises though.