4th Gen to 5th Gen...talk to me.

[Jetboy]

For folks who may be interested Orange Virus is working on a re-tune that will do a lot of small adjustments. Mostly they involve recalibrating the throttle response and recalibration of the shift logic so it doesn't down shift as often. What I've seen from them has not been verified by anyone independently, so I'm naturally skeptical. However, on paper it looks reasonable. They are only increasing peak power by about 1%. Less than 5hp. However, but using a bit more aggressive tune they are claiming around 20hp increase at 2500rpms - which is right where I'd much rather have it. If the claims match reality it may be worth the $ to me to jump. I've been having a bit of back an forth regarding the tune and will certainly start a thread if they finish the software and I install it. They have the 3rd gen Tacoma already, so they apparently have figured out how to flash the ECUs on the newer stuff. I'm very curious to see if it's worth doing.

 

[Jeffy]

For folks who may be interested Orange Virus is working on a re-tune that will do a lot of small adjustments. Mostly they involve recalibrating the throttle response and recalibration of the shift logic so it doesn't down shift as often. What I've seen from them has not been verified by anyone independently, so I'm naturally skeptical. However, on paper it looks reasonable. They are only increasing peak power by about 1%. Less than 5hp. However, but using a bit more aggressive tune they are claiming around 20hp increase at 2500rpms - which is right where I'd much rather have it. If the claims match reality it may be worth the $ to me to jump. I've been having a bit of back an forth regarding the tune and will certainly start a thread if they finish the software and I install it. They have the 3rd gen Tacoma already, so they apparently have figured out how to flash the ECUs on the newer stuff. I'm very curious to see if it's worth doing.

I've been following that thread also, I'll be jumping on that once I hear more about it. That would make the switch from a 4th to a 5th a lot more palatable for people since the main complaint is the lack of noticeable power in the 5th

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

What are other things that the 4th Gen does better than the 5th and vice versa?

You will miss some creature comforts from Gen4 to Gen5: Auto Climate control, set he temp and go. Winter driving, I used to place my 2006 SR5 into 4WD High and leave it all winter. If the fronts needed to kick in they would but for the most part the rears propelled like an AWD. The Gen5 you will need to shift (or twist) into 4WD Hi and then once you do not need 4x4 shift out. Lastly the flick start up in the Gen4 was nice, it was near a push button start. The Gen5 reverted back to hold the start until it does. My Gen5 hated me for the first few months. Again all creature comforts but listing these three sounds like I am complaining. That is far from the truth, I love the Gen5, in my opinion it is the nicest looking SUV on the market regardless of price. Also the ride quality is more refined in the Gen5, the Gen4 was more truck like and at times jarring on road imperfections.

 

[atalarico]

I have a stage2 GTI and a 5th gen, If I had to get rid of one it would be the GTI but man I would hate to make that decision. The GTI gets me to and from work in crappy 1.5 hr traffic commute and saves me miles on the 4runner which I use for everything else.

See, that's exactly the reason I got the R 2.5 years ago. I got hired at a great job that involved a 60 mile a day commute and I knew that would send my beloved 3rd Gen to an early grave. It was great until I sent my poor 3rd gen into a wall on some black ice and they totaled it. I'm still at said great job but now it only requires a two day a week commute, and I think a lightly modded (33's and a 2ish" lift) 4Runner could handle it fine. As much as I love zipping along in the R and the JB4 tune on it snapping necks...I'm just not sure I can reallllly justify it anymore.

As far as power between the two: I had a 4th gen v8 and swapped to a 5th gen. As someone else said, it's not so much that the v6 is slower, it's where the power is in the RPM range. The v8 has more torque in the low end whereas the v6 power is all at high RPMs. This definitely makes the v8 feel a lot faster because you get much more neck-snapping power off the line. I've heard the v6 described as feeling like a turbo kicking in because you don't get the power for a few seconds until the RPMs get high enough. In reality, the 0-60 times between the two vehicles are so close that there's really no difference, it's all about how it feels coming off the line. Also, the way the throttle is mapped on the 5th gen means you pretty much have to mash the pedal to the floor before it starts opening up. You can fix that with a pedal commander if you really want to though. Bottom line, these are not fast vehicles no matter what.

Other notes on switching: the 5th gen definitely feels a lot more roomy and comfortable inside, and at 6'1" I appreciated that. Everything else (looks, interior design, etc.) is subjective and up to your personal preference.

One more thing to consider is what you'll be using the vehicle for. If it's going to be used frequently I'd definitely go with the 5th gen for the newer and more comfortable interior. If it's going to be primarily a trail rig, save the money and get a 4th gen, then use that money for mods to make it more trail-ready.

That makes sense to me. The V8 is remarkably snappy off the line (more than I ever expected), and literally never struggles like my 3rd gen did to get up mountain passes in 4th gear. I do wheel my 4Runner, but nothing that I'd qualify as extreme, so I've noticed that low-end grunt is great this past summer wheeling. Theeeen again...I never had issues wheeling my 3rd gen either, it's just...easier in the V8.

The interior size kind of turns me off actually since I'm a small guy so the jump up to the 4th Gen was a literal reach! Not sure if I want something more cavernous. Is the exterior body dimensions larger as well?

 

[atalarico]

You will miss some creature comforts from Gen4 to Gen5: Auto Climate control, set he temp and go. Winter driving, I used to place my 2006 SR5 into 4WD High and leave it all winter. If the fronts needed to kick in they would but for the most part the rears propelled like an AWD. The Gen5 you will need to shift (or twist) into 4WD Hi and then once you do not need 4x4 shift out. Lastly the flick start up in the Gen4 was nice, it was near a push button start. The Gen5 reverted back to hold the start until it does. My Gen5 hated me for the first few months. Again all creature comforts but listing these three sounds like I am complaining. That is far from the truth, I love the Gen5, in my opinion it is the nicest looking SUV on the market regardless of price. Also the ride quality is more refined in the Gen5, the Gen4 was more truck like and at times jarring on road imperfections.

Wait, the 5th Gen doesn't have auto climate!? That's bizarre, though not a deal-breaker, just seems...backwards. Since having my old 3rd gen in 2WD mode when it hit a patch of black ice is what got me into this mess in the first place, I really kind of appreciate the full-time AWD of the V8 4th gen. The flick start is neat, and it's also weird that they reverted away from that.

The ride quality comment is interesting since I've heard that referring to 3rd Gen to 4th Gens, and now 4th Gens to 5th Gens. The 4th Gen, even with my OME suspension and stiffer 33" tires, is nicer than the 3rd Gen for sure, so it's a selling point that the 5th will be even nicer than that.

 

[Jeffy]

The interior size kind of turns me off actually since I'm a small guy so the jump up to the 4th Gen was a literal reach! Not sure if I want something more cavernous. Is the exterior body dimensions larger as well?

The 5th gen is only wider by about an inch at the most extreme points, so negligible. The body styling makes the 5th look a lot bigger but in actuality it's not.

 

[IanB]

Wait, the 5th Gen doesn't have auto climate!? That's bizarre, though not a deal-breaker, just seems...backwards. Since having my old 3rd gen in 2WD mode when it hit a patch of black ice is what got me into this mess in the first place, I really kind of appreciate the full-time AWD of the V8 4th gen. The flick start is neat, and it's also weird that they reverted away from that.

The ride quality comment is interesting since I've heard that referring to 3rd Gen to 4th Gens, and now 4th Gens to 5th Gens. The 4th Gen, even with my OME suspension and stiffer 33" tires, is nicer than the 3rd Gen for sure, so it's a selling point that the 5th will be even nicer than that.

5th gen Ltd. trim has full time AWD, auto climate control, memory seating, etc. All the other trim levels have a 2wd/4wd transfer case. AWD was a must for us, so we were looking only at Ltd. trim trucks when shopping.

 

[atalarico]

The 5th gen is only wider by about an inch at the most extreme points, so negligible. The body styling makes the 5th look a lot bigger but in actuality it's not.

Good to know then! The test drive will tell all then. The exterior measurements are of interest since the 4th Gen has scraped a lot more offroad than the old 3rd Gen. As long as it's not ay bigger than that, that's good.

5th gen Ltd. trim has full time AWD, auto climate control, memory seating, etc. All the other trim levels have a 2wd/4wd transfer case. AWD was a must for us, so we were looking only at Ltd. trim trucks when shopping.

Yeah, I saw that, but the bumper and what not on the Limited doesn't seem conducive to offroading, no? It almost seems...too nice in the way that modern Land Cruisers are...even though plenty of people offroad them.

 

[PaulB-2006 T4R]

Yeah, I saw that, but the bumper and what not on the Limited doesn't seem conducive to offroading, no? It almost seems...too nice in the way that modern Land Cruisers are...even though plenty of people offroad them.

I totally agree, also not a fan of the Limited's skinny tires, looks like 4 compact spare tires (that will start a war :wave.

 

[TR0N1C]

i'd keep the v8

My V8 had a cracked exhaust manifold and the front wheel bearings wore out. The mechanic said the wheel bearings weren't meant for the added weight of the V8.
The ground clearance is better in the 5th gen, too.
I had a 1st gen Taco for 11 years, and that V6 was wonderful.


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[TR0N1C]

5th gen Ltd. trim has full time AWD, auto climate control, memory seating, etc. All the other trim levels have a 2wd/4wd transfer case. AWD was a must for us, so we were looking only at Ltd. trim trucks when shopping.

The 4th gen Sport Edition, 5th gen Limited, and Land Cruiser have full-time 4WD, not AWD.

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[HighTechAddict]

Been there, done that

I know exactly where you are coming from as I have a similar history of 3rd/4th/5th gen 4runners over the last few years.

About 7 years ago I got a 99 limited and loved it to bits. Kept it mostly stock and kept my off roading to basic fire roads and such, nothing too crazy.

A couple of years after that I got my daughter a 2003 V8 sport (which she still has) and love that too. Definitely more comfortable on road than the 3rd gen, and the V8 has good torque for on road. That one has never been off road to any real measure and I don't think it will be as long as we have it.

About a year ago, we decided that the 3rd gen was getting a little long in the tooth and just wasn't as comfortable on road as I (and my wife) wanted. I was looking at Land Cruisers, but found that for what I wanted to spend, I wasn't going to get anything much newer than the 4runner I was getting out of. My wife suggested that I spend a little more and get a lightly used 5th gen.

I managed to find a great condition 2013 trail edition with KDSS and low miles at a good price and absolutely love it. It feels a bit bigger than the 4th gen all around and feels a bit slower as well, but a lot of that is due to the abysmal throttle response. I haven't raced it against my daughters, but imagine it wouldn't lose by much if I did. IMO, this thing is still a truck and isn't made for racing around in any case, so I'm OK with it. I also have a sports car and motorcycle for when those urges arise.

I have been doing more off roading this year and have since lifted it a bit and put 33" tires on as well. I also got a Pedal Commander to help with the throttle response issues and think it's just fantastic now.

If you are interested, I'm local and would be happy to let you give it a spin to see what a 5th gen with 33's feels like in person, and how much of a difference the pedal commander makes at the various settings. PM me if you want to set something up.

If you do decide to sell the 4th gen and upgrade to a 5th, I would be interested in making a deal to take those DT headers off your hands too. My daughters 4th get has the exhaust tick...

 

[atalarico]

I know exactly where you are coming from as I have a similar history of 3rd/4th/5th gen 4runners over the last few years.

About 7 years ago I got a 99 limited and loved it to bits. Kept it mostly stock and kept my off roading to basic fire roads and such, nothing too crazy.

A couple of years after that I got my daughter a 2003 V8 sport (which she still has) and love that too. Definitely more comfortable on road than the 3rd gen, and the V8 has good torque for on road. That one has never been off road to any real measure and I don't think it will be as long as we have it.

About a year ago, we decided that the 3rd gen was getting a little long in the tooth and just wasn't as comfortable on road as I (and my wife) wanted. I was looking at Land Cruisers, but found that for what I wanted to spend, I wasn't going to get anything much newer than the 4runner I was getting out of. My wife suggested that I spend a little more and get a lightly used 5th gen.

I managed to find a great condition 2013 trail edition with KDSS and low miles at a good price and absolutely love it. It feels a bit bigger than the 4th gen all around and feels a bit slower as well, but a lot of that is due to the abysmal throttle response. I haven't raced it against my daughters, but imagine it wouldn't lose by much if I did. IMO, this thing is still a truck and isn't made for racing around in any case, so I'm OK with it. I also have a sports car and motorcycle for when those urges arise.

I have been doing more off roading this year and have since lifted it a bit and put 33" tires on as well. I also got a Pedal Commander to help with the throttle response issues and think it's just fantastic now.

If you are interested, I'm local and would be happy to let you give it a spin to see what a 5th gen with 33's feels like in person, and how much of a difference the pedal commander makes at the various settings. PM me if you want to set something up.

If you do decide to sell the 4th gen and upgrade to a 5th, I would be interested in making a deal to take those DT headers off your hands too. My daughters 4th get has the exhaust tick...

Sounds like you get where I'm coming from! Does it do just fine going up I70 and what not now that you have the 33's on it? I just might take you up on your offer to check it out too since I've only been in a rental 5th gen before and have little in the way of a frame of reference.

 

[IanB]

The 4th gen Sport Edition, 5th gen Limited, and Land Cruiser have full-time 4WD, not AWD.

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What do you think "Full Time 4WD" means? Don't forget, the center differential isn't locked during normal use...

 

[Bumbo]

From a 4th gen SR5 to a 5th Gen Limited the most noticeable and note worthy thing for me was the interior. The leather trim and amenities was a welcome upgrade but the overall fit, finish, and feel makes the 5th gen overall more comfortable to be in.

That said, my two trucks are so different that it is very difficult to compare to two. One we bought with the intention of being a street SUV, and with XREAS is very much drives like one, and the 4th Gen is the lifted off-roader that wears mud terrains 24/7.

To this very day I still think about the GX 460, and wonder if it would have been better for my intended use case… city truck with the option to go off-road. It had really grown on me and I didn't take that truck seriously before buying.

At least the 5th Gen limited still has auto climate, heated/cooled seats, Torsen transfer case. The selectable AWD/4WD system on the Limited is just like what I was used to having in the 4th gen and one of the key selling points for me for on-road AWD use… I love being able to lock / unlock the center diff.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I had a 4th gen 2003 V8 4runner for 11 years before buying my 5th gen. No matter what anyone says you will always miss the low end torque of the V8 and nice sound. Even after having my 5th gen 4.5 years I never got used to the V6. Other than that I like most things on my 5th gen better but that is because I have a Limited. If you buy an sr5 or trail edition says goodbye o the full time 4x4, auto temp etc.

 

[IanB]

To this very day I still think about the GX 460, and wonder if it would have been better for my intended use case… city truck with the option to go off-road. It had really grown on me and I didn't take that truck seriously before buying.

We looked into GX460's when we were shopping as we really liked our GX470, but for anything comparable it was $10K or more difference, the value just wasn't there for us. Part of that is probably regional, there was very few on the used market anywhere in Western Canada at the time.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I honestly think a ton of folks are confusing V8 noise with power.

The 4.7L makes a lot of low end torque, but falls off really fast. Horsepower isn't that high, either.

If you dyno'd the current 4.0L agains the older 4.7L, you'd probably find that the 4.7L has about 25-30 ft-lbs of peak torque more than the 4.0L, but dropping off fast, with lower total horsepower, and very slightly more drivetrain losses.

I bet you'd also find the 4.0L is faster 0-60, even with a family of 3-4 in it. You'd only notice the 4.7L being faster towing a trailer.

Combine that with 10-15% better MPG, and it just seems like a toss-up for a car that should only be towing around 5,000 lbs anyways due to wheelbase and spring softness.

The V8 just has a more pleasing deep rumble, which peopl equate to power. It's hard not to... I've noticed the phenonemon with adding a header to my car that actually reduced torque a bit, but the sound was so incredible I thought the car was faster.

My 2UZ w/ 35's beats my brothers FJ on 34's in everything even fuel mileage (though his aerodynamics are pretty bad with a roof rack). 0-60 drags by a car length. Where his 4.0 takes its time getting to 90mph mine keeps pulling hard. Stock for stock maybe they are closer, haven't tried, but I know once loaded down the V8 handles it better.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

When I had my V8 4th gen my wife would always complain when I floored it a from a stop light. She would always say is this necessary as it pinned her back in the seat. On my 5th gen I can floor it from a stop every time and she does not notice (nor does the 5th gen 4runner accelerate very fast from a stop). Once the 5th gen get up to around 3k rpm or so the acceleration is similar between the 2.

 

[jimmynotjim]

Figured I might as well pile on. I came from an 05 Limited to my 18 ORP and honestly don't miss the V8 but appreciate the better mileage, the upgraded ride, and the ease of mind not needing a million repairs. I'm sure if I sunk a bunch of money into it that 05 would run forever but I bought it at 135k miles so there was really no telling what the previous owner abused before then.

Still served me well for the years I had it, even took a few long road trips including 5k miles out to the Mountain states and back to Illinois last summer. Loving the 18 and looking forward to driving it for quite a while. Good luck with your choice, I don't think you can really go wrong either way.