4WD vs AWD Question

[baldrik78]

On pavement, I only engage 4wd when I'm driving through the mountain passes and there is snow on the road or chains are required. Everything else is 2wd.

 

[wfo9]

This has been discussed a million times. Keeping your truck in 4wd on dry pavement won't hurt anything except the tires. The binding between front and rear is much worse in many offroad situations... and it only really happens in low speed sharp turns. If you are over 30mph you really can't create any bind.

A question I have is it it OK to use 4Hi in the "in between times"?

I consider these to be, not off road driving, but driving on the highway in slippery conditions (rain or wet road with possibility of freezing conditions). Not running through snow on the road, but wet, or possibly freezing conditions where black ice is a possibility, but not a surety.

I think many people get confused about AWD and 4WD thinking it is some amazing safety feature in inclimate weather. While it can help while accelerating.. it does not help with lateral grip or braking... So yes, you can accelerate better with AWD/4WD with all else being equal including tires... but the decision to engage it on a part time system should purely be based on how often the conditions cause acceleration problems in 2wd. Rarely would hwy conditions ever warrant 4wd. There are situations... but it is pretty rare in my opinion.

 

[thatmaceguy]

I don't want to be stuck in 2WD while all the Audis, Subies, and everyone else is in AWD.

This is exactly why we bought a Limited, best of both worlds. Full time AWD for daily driving and 4Hi/Lo for offroad.

 

[MossJenks]

I agree with your first point entirely, wfo9 - dry pavement is an extreme situation but in wet conditions it's fine to be in 4WD all the time.

I disagree with your second point though. It's not so much the ability to accelerate that's important (unless it's REALLY bad) but the stability of the acceleration that's important for most people. Sure I have driven RWD pickups over mountain passes in snow storms but I wouldn't recommend it. I see people in 4x4s all the time though that are probably not particularly good drivers and following the advice "only put it in 4wd if you're stuck" who give it gas on a slick patch and loop it into the ditch. If they'd been in 4WD there probably would have been no drama at all.

Of course stability and traction control greys these distinctions.

For the record, if there's snow on the road I'm in 4wd always. Mixed conditions usually. Rain? No.

 

[kasch_hunter]

I agree with WFO9 that many inexperienced drivers don't fully appreciate what 4WD really does for you. But, 4WD does help in braking when you are using compression to slow down because then you have 4 tires with power to them that are creating resistance instead of 2.

 

[MossJenks]

A question I have is it it OK to use 4Hi in the "in between times"?

I consider these to be, not off road driving, but driving on the highway in slippery conditions (rain or wet road with possibility of freezing conditions). Not running through snow on the road, but wet, or possibly freezing conditions where black ice is a possibility, but not a surety.

I mentioned this to a service rep while I was having a rattle checked and he was horrified that I might be using 4Hi in these types of conditions as 4Hi was "only for off road use".

Driving up to the mountains (CA Sierra Nevada), I don't want to be stuck in 2WD while all the Audis, Subies, and everyone else is in AWD. The conditions can quickly change when going from sea level to 7,000 ft.

To answer your question, yes it is OK to be in 4Hi in the conditions you're describing.

You don't have to be "stuck" in one mode or the other. These things are shift-on-the-fly. As long as you're driving straight and not spinning your wheels you can just reach down and shift it. I think Toyota has a recommended max speed but I don't know what it is for a 5th gen. I've been driving these things for too long! Anything under 60 is fine though.

 

[RedRunner_87]

I don't feel my ko2 do well on wet roads.


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I have the KO2's on my 3rd Gen 4Runner and absolutely love them in adverse conditions. Granted the 96 4Runner has a lot less power than the 5th and is on 285's. They are great in the snow and rain.

 

[enyce]

I switch to 4HI when there is heavy snow on the road or off road. Also I run the 4HI on a straight road to satisfy the 10 mile/month requirement to engage the 4x4 system. One thing to remember is when turning on slippery surface you have to go slow. Once you get used to it, you should be fine.

If you don't, I suggest swapping for a Limited.

 

[wfo9]

I agree with your first point entirely, wfo9 - dry pavement is an extreme situation but in wet conditions it's fine to be in 4WD all the time.

I disagree with your second point though. It's not so much the ability to accelerate that's important (unless it's REALLY bad) but the stability of the acceleration that's important for most people. Sure I have driven RWD pickups over mountain passes in snow storms but I wouldn't recommend it. I see people in 4x4s all the time though that are probably not particularly good drivers and following the advice "only put it in 4wd if you're stuck" who give it gas on a slick patch and loop it into the ditch. If they'd been in 4WD there probably would have been no drama at all.

Of course stability and traction control greys these distinctions.

For the record, if there's snow on the road I'm in 4wd always. Mixed conditions usually. Rain? No.

I think you misunderstood my point, read it again, Obviously, it helps with acceleration, that is what I said. It does not help with lateral grip or braking. People think it does and over extend their abilities thinking they have gained braking and lateral grip in AWD.. but they have not. In many road conditions, the correct tires are more important than 4 wheels being powered. Controlling your speed is critical and since you gain the ability to achieve more speed with AWD/4WD.. you have to be aware that you do not gain any more braking or lateral stability.

I'm not saying it useless on the road (it's actually very useful when the conditions require it).. just that people often get confused about what the actual benefit is and often become overconfident or use it when it is not necessary.

 

[03_4x4Runner]

I switch to 4HI when there is heavy snow on the road or off road. Also I run the 4HI on a straight road to satisfy the 10 mile/month requirement to engage the 4x4 system. One thing to remember is when turning on slippery surface you have to go slow. Once you get used to it, you should be fine.

If you don't, I suggest swapping for a Limited.

Remember that you also need to put it in low range now and then to keep that actuator from sticking but your Trail may be mechanical going to low unlike the SR5 and limited.

 

[enyce]

Remember that you also need to put it in low range now and then to keep that actuator from sticking but your Trail may be mechanical going to low unlike the SR5 and limited.

Only used 4LO once. Guess I have to used more often.

 

[wanderMT]

I am over 60 years old and live in Montana on the east side of the Divide and own a cabin I travel to almost every weekend located on the west side of the Divide. I drive over a 5500 foot high pass to make the trip. I have seen it snow in Montana every month of the year except July but typically we have snow from October or November to May or June with the bulk of our snow in the November to March time period. Right now there is 4-5 feet of snow at my cabin. I drive on snow and ice often. My wife and I have always owned a 4WD and have never owned an AWD. We recently (3 weeks ago) bought our first 4Runner—an SR5 Premium 4WD. Prior to our 4Runner we had several Chevrolet Suburbans for the last 15-20 years and I have always had a ¾ ton 4WD pickup. I hunt often in the months of October and November and have had more than my fair shore of experiences driving in snow and, much worse than snow, eastern Montana gumbo mud.

Here is my experience with 4WD. I NEVER use 4WD in wet conditions. For snow on pavement I pretty much always use 4WD. While I also always use 4WD when I know the roads are icy I am far more careful on ice than snow. If you have ever been in a serious 4WD slide on ice you know you might as well let go of the steering wheel because you will have no control until you stop. A common road condition particularly here in eastern Montana where we have lots of high winds is intermittent ice and snow with long patches of bare pavement. You can drive at highway speeds for several miles on dry pavement and then unexpectedly encounter an area where snow has blown across the road, melted, and then frozen into a sheet of ice that can be a short stretch or a mile long. When the roads have this type of intermittent ice I leave my vehicle in 4WD because you sometimes encounter the ice as you round a corner or top a hill and don’t have time to engage 4WD. I am sure there are those who think driving on bare pavement in 4WD even for short distance will ruin or break something. However I have left mine in 4WD over extended dry pavement when I encounter the dry pavement/long stretches of icy road conditions described above and have never encountered any damage or problems with my vehicles. However, I would not drive a 4WD on dry pavement at slower speeds where there are lots of turns—the kind where you experience the front wheel hop we all know about. If you are driving slow enough you may not need 4WD at all.

Eastern Montana gumbo? Whole different story—tires fill with mud so thick the treads fill and you can find yourself unable to get traction in 2” of mud. I have been in Gumbo so bad you had to wait for nighttime and the cold for the mud to set up enough or freeze so you can drive on it. I would gladly take the worst ice and snow conditions over gumbo. My worst/scariest driving experiences in my entire lifetime have been in Gumbo. In my part of the country you get off the dirt roads and get to pavement as soon as possible if it starts to rain!

After 45 years of driving 4x4s, I couldn't have said any of this better. I am quick to use 4H and probably 75% of my 4x4 use is on pavement with slush, ice/snowpack or intermittent with dry patches. If raining and chance of freezing, I'm in 4x4. Braking and steering are both slightly better in 4x4 and new electronic nannies do help. Tires - #1- top quality A/T fine year round but winter snowflake better when cold. Forget the lockers when slippery, unless you slid in ditch and trying to get out!

 

[1000MPH]

When I'm driving on a snow covered road like a mtn pass I want to know constantly how much traction I have. It's in 2wd until it starts to slip, which is tested with acceleration not braking. The slip is telling me to slow down not throw it in 4wd and keep blasting. If I'm still getting slip it then goes in 4H and I keep it under 30 mostly, sometimes even slower. If I feel conditions are improving, I'll go back to 2 and do it all over again.
Yes, there are some days I'll come out of the garage in 4H and leave it there but that's probably once or twice a year when no one should be out.
Oh, my RAV4 AWD is far better in <5" snow than my 4R in 4wd, dangerously better.

 

[Mvm]

OP Here

OP Here,

Thanks for all of the replies. A couple of things:

1. I grew up in the snow belt (9 months of winter and 3 months of mighty poor sledding). I’ve been driving in snow (with studded tires, regular snow tires, all season tires, and regular tires) for decades. As hoodlum teenagers we used to do donuts and all sorts of other kid stuff in supermarket parking lots late at night. Steering into a skid (and waiting for the rear ended to break the other way) is 2nd nature. I know AWD is not all wheel stop. I’ve been driving in the mountains of Tahoe for over 30 years. My problem is going from 60 degrees in the Bay Area to 20 degrees and driving snow in the span of a couple of hours.

2. I know I can shift into 4Hi on the fly.

2. I, personally, did not like the Limited. No offense to Limited owners. My wife and I will be doing more light off-roading so I wanted the extra capability of the Off Road. I know it can get me into a lot of trouble. I’m looking for the extra capability to get me out of trouble if needed.

Thanks for all of the tire comments. I think that’s the answer. The CA climate can really suck you in and make you complacent until it’s too late. I’ve had to put on and take off tire chains 3 times in the span of a couple of hours due to variable conditions up in Tahoe. Better tires are on the menu.

 

[westwind77]

or possibly freezing conditions where black ice is a possibility, but not a surety.

4WD will not really save you on black ice, that is where you pray your VSC system will kick in and keep you somewhat on the track you need to be.

Depending on the drive I have no issue putting it in/out of 4WD as the road conditions change multiple times.

If my next vehicle is the 4R I will be getting the Limited so my wife can drive it without having to deal with that 'hassle' as she puts it.

 

[MrGainzz]

That’s the reason why I went with the Ltd so I would never have to worry about when to shift the knob to 4wd. I also invested in a set of Nokian Hakkapeliittas.


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[flea1983]

Since the limited has full time 4wd, do you still need to lock the center diff for 10 miles a month? I figure it’s a good idea to switch it and also 4lo regularly but is there a need to drive with the diff locked to lube it?

 

[MossJenks]

One thing to remember is when turning on slippery surface you have to go slow.

Crap, I've been doing it wrong for 30 years.

I think you misunderstood my point, read it again, Obviously, it helps with acceleration, that is what I said. It does not help with lateral grip or braking. People think it does and over extend their abilities thinking they have gained braking and lateral grip in AWD.. but they have not. In many road conditions, the correct tires are more important than 4 wheels being powered. Controlling your speed is critical and since you gain the ability to achieve more speed with AWD/4WD.. you have to be aware that you do not gain any more braking or lateral stability.

I'm not saying it useless on the road (it's actually very useful when the conditions require it).. just that people often get confused about what the actual benefit is and often become overconfident or use it when it is not necessary.

I read it again and still disagree. 4wd is really great for overall stability in the snow. Part of the disagreement probably stems from where we live. I go to the mountains every weekend in the winter (most of the summer too) and I get pissed off when I see people in 4x4s not in 4wd in the snow fishtailing around and crashing and making everyone's drive to the ski hill hell. I just want to scream at them. So that's where I disagreed with your statement "Rarely would hwy conditions ever warrant 4wd." They do all winter in Colorado (not THIS winter but most winters, LOL).

But I definitely DO agree with your overall point as expressed here that inexperienced drivers think that 4wd can do more than it can, go hauling ass down the road and crash. That definitely happens a lot.

You don't gain lateral grip but you do gain stability. Which I agree can lull people into a false sense of security. But 4wd does make the vehicle way more neutral in the corners. With the locked center they do tend to understeer a bit more than a good AWD system. But get it into the corner, get the back end to kick out a bit and get on the gas to power out of the corner in a four wheel drift.....ah, that's the good stuff. I've always driven way too fast in the snow though! :lookout:

 

[off-road runner]

It wouldn't worry me to have it in 4hi if the pavement is wet and I'm on highway or mountain type roads and the temp was < 32°F. Tight parking lot and city type driving on dry pavement in 4hi/4lo is what you want to avoid. Wet pavement will aid in your ability to take those tight city turns in 4X4 but just the pavement being wet doesn't warrant using 4X4 IMHO. Use your best judgement.

 

[csw2001]

Rarely would hwy conditions ever warrant 4wd. There are situations... but it is pretty rare in my opinion.

Very common here, so far I've had 4WD engaged for about half of our weekend trips to the Rockies mainly for the ice patches where hitting an ice patch while accelerating in rear wheel drive only could result in fishtailing.

Once that happens to you a few times you don't mind the dip in gas mileage !