5th Gen Competition Increasing (Again): Kia Mohave

[Gecko]

A few years ago, it seemed like the 4Runner was the last of a dying breed. Now it's part of a rapidly growing segment that's garnering tons of consumer interest.

Off the top of my head:
- New Wrangler
- New Bronco coming next year
- Rumored new GM BOF midsize SUV, allegedly under the GMC brand
- Now, Kia is launching a BOF midsize SUV called the Mohave that is the successor to the Borrego. Word is that this SUV will be coming to USA soon.
- New Grand Cherokee coming next year, too
- Rumors of Nissan XTerra coming back

Kia Mohave:

I would say more competition is actually a good thing, but Toyota needs to keep pace and maintain their leadership position... unlike how they've done with the Tacoma. More competition means more consumer interest.

 

[97BlackAckCL]

meh, I don't think Toyota is worried about sales

 

[Gecko]

meh, I don't think Toyota is worried about sales

I don't think KIA is much of a threat, but a new Bronco and Grand Cherokee next year will likely hurt Toyota a bit. The Bronco will debut to a lot of fanfare and momentum, and I expect it to remain sold out for the first few weeks or months.

Overall though, more momentum in this class should force Toyota to really double down on the 6th gen.

Broken record comment: If Toyota had just given us a powertrain refresh at any point in the 5th gen lifecycle, it would run with these new entries pretty well.

 

[97BlackAckCL]

Agreed

 

[Mutant138]

Looks like an ifs rear. Not much competition.

 

[NW.OH.T4R]

I don't think KIA is much of a threat, but a new Bronco and Grand Cherokee next year will likely hurt Toyota a bit. The Bronco will debut to a lot of fanfare and momentum, and I expect it to remain sold out for the first few weeks or months.

Overall though, more momentum in this class should force Toyota to really double down on the 6th gen.

Broken record comment: If Toyota had just given us a powertrain refresh at any point in the 5th gen lifecycle, it would run with these new entries pretty well.

I would say a Kia 10 years ago wouldn't be a threat, but today is a different story. The new Kia's coming off the line are not the same as the Sportage and Optima that started their US insertion. I think of what the Stinger and Genesis lineup has brought to the mid-size luxury sedan segment, and being mentioned in the same conversation as the A5 sportback or 4 series Gran Coupe. Their historically questionable reliability is phasing out, which should allow the depreciation rate to slow a little.

I don't think a Kia will ever reach an enthusiast market, but for those who view an automobile solely as a means of transportation it will check all the boxes.

Agree with Bronco and GC impact.

 

[Tejas]

I don't agree with the current drive train being a detriment argument, the increasing sales of the 5th Gen every year over the past decade refutes consumer disdain over the drivetrain. The motor is arguably one of the most reliable they've ever developed (had some teething issues at first) and the transmission while only a 5 speed is nearly indestructible. A 6th gear and a different gear ratio likely could make all the difference in the world, but a 4Runner doesn't need 350HP and a 10 speed transmission like everyone likes to think. I promise you that the die-hard enthusiasts will long for the days of the simple 4.0L and the 5-speed when your only option is a turbo 4cyl with a dial transmission shifter and push button transfer-case selector.

Toyota definitely needs a major facelift/redesign of the 4Runner in order to continue to compete but we already know that's coming in a few years so that's a moot point. While the average consumer wants more tech/safety, better ergonomics, better fuel economy, and more comfort, the majority of the enthusiast crowd represented by those in this forum and others like it (a mere fraction of owners) will scream for simplicity and reliability and sadly those two just don't align in the long run.

 

[drewsro]

I don't think KIA is much of a threat, but a new Bronco and Grand Cherokee next year will likely hurt Toyota a bit. The Bronco will debut to a lot of fanfare and momentum, and I expect it to remain sold out for the first few weeks or months.

Bronco will definitely be tough competition, but the Grand Cherokee isn't really. Maybe compared to the Limited trim though. Plus, 4Runner and GC reliability are on the opposite ends of the spectrum lol

 

[Gecko]

Bronco will definitely be tough competition, but the Grand Cherokee isn't really. Maybe compared to the Limited trim though. Plus, 4Runner and GC reliability are on the opposite ends of the spectrum lol

There are a fair number of people who buy 4Runners that don't even know (or care) about BOF vs unibody... I'd actually wager that most don't. GC has always been a good looking package with a nice interior and nice options, even if just at face value. I think most average shoppers still see it as the 4Runner's #1 competitor despite the reality of how different they've become.

Someone looking to buy a 4Runner and keep it for 10 years with heavy modding and offroad use? Yeah, they probably won't cross shop a GC... but that's <5% of buyers.

My .02

 

[Gecko]

I don't agree with the current drive train being a detriment argument, the increasing sales of the 5th Gen every year over the past decade refutes consumer disdain over the drivetrain. The motor is arguably one of the most reliable they've ever developed (had some teething issues at first) and the transmission while only a 5 speed is nearly indestructible. A 6th gear and a different gear ratio likely could make all the difference in the world, but a 4Runner doesn't need 350HP and a 10 speed transmission like everyone likes to think. I promise you that the die-hard enthusiasts will long for the days of the simple 4.0L and the 5-speed when your only option is a turbo 4cyl with a dial transmission shifter and push button transfer-case selector.

Toyota definitely needs a major facelift/redesign of the 4Runner in order to continue to compete but we already know that's coming in a few years so that's a moot point. While the average consumer wants more tech/safety, better ergonomics, better fuel economy, and more comfort, the majority of the enthusiast crowd represented by those in this forum and others like it (a mere fraction of owners) will scream for simplicity and reliability and sadly those two just don't align in the long run.

I totally agree with you... a 6AT is the one thing that would make a big difference and it's a shame we haven't had it thus far. Most consumers don't know/feel the difference between a 5AT and an 8AT, but what they see and know is "how powerful it feels" and "what the gas mileage is like." Those are two areas where the 4Runner really needs to improve.

Even ten years old now, the 4Runner is still a great package, as evidenced by climbing sales. As much as some may lament, them, the changes for 2020 represent a big step up in consumer desirability. What else really could you want, aside from that extra cog or three in the transmission? The BOF formula doesn't need to change as much as unibody vehicles, IMO.

 

[tomb_rnr]

I actually like how toyota sticks with its design for a long time. Unlike other manufactures where they change body style often which makes your vehicle look old.

I do admit that Toyota could improve on the creature comforts inside.


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[JAXJeremy]

they spelled Mojave wrong...

enough said...

 

[thennen]

Looks like an ifs rear. Not much competition.

You mean IRS? ;-) Unless it's rear steer.

 

[thennen]

I don't agree with the current drive train being a detriment argument, the increasing sales of the 5th Gen every year over the past decade refutes consumer disdain over the drivetrain. The motor is arguably one of the most reliable they've ever developed (had some teething issues at first) and the transmission while only a 5 speed is nearly indestructible. A 6th gear and a different gear ratio likely could make all the difference in the world, but a 4Runner doesn't need 350HP and a 10 speed transmission like everyone likes to think. I promise you that the die-hard enthusiasts will long for the days of the simple 4.0L and the 5-speed when your only option is a turbo 4cyl with a dial transmission shifter and push button transfer-case selector.

Toyota definitely needs a major facelift/redesign of the 4Runner in order to continue to compete but we already know that's coming in a few years so that's a moot point. While the average consumer wants more tech/safety, better ergonomics, better fuel economy, and more comfort, the majority of the enthusiast crowd represented by those in this forum and others like it (a mere fraction of owners) will scream for simplicity and reliability and sadly those two just don't align in the long run.

Nailed it. Fast 0-60 times never sold this type of vehicle to anyone, capability and durability did. And does.

 

[Brick Sprickly]

Sure but how many of there are true body-on-frame vehicles?

Looks like another crossover gallery to me, not even comparable.

 

[Gecko]

Sure but how many of there are true body-on-frame vehicles?

Looks like another crossover gallery to me, not even comparable.

This KIA? It's BOF.

2020 Kia Mohave the Master SUV interior revealed | Autoblog

Bronco should be too. Not sure about the others - they're rumors right now.

 

[Brick Sprickly]

This KIA? It's BOF.

2020 Kia Mohave the Master SUV interior revealed | Autoblog

Bronco should be too. Not sure about the others - they're rumors right now.

In all honestly I haven't read up on them. Not surprised they're BOF given that 4Rs have cornered that market pretty well; if other brands are trying to get in on that action that's good for competition surely but only if their performance and reliability can compete as well.

 

[Jemplyr77]

That thing is as ugly as sin..IMHO.

 

[Brick Sprickly]

Also as an aside:

All these others look like sh*t.

 

[mscot]

My wife has a Hyundai Tucson that sucks so hard. I'll never buy another Korean car. The thing feels like its going to stall anytime you're making a slow left or driving up a hill slowly (like our driveway).
It feels like you're driving a manual with the clutch half engaged while in first gear.. or there's a fuel injection problem.
Every time we take it in we're told this is normal behavior of a dual clutch.
Fuuuuuuuuck Hyundai/Kia.