5th Gen JBL Stereo - warning to those upgrading speakers but keeping Head unit

[DiggetyDan]

I recently upgraded the front and rear speakers and sub in my 2012 LE. The existing system was the JBL premium sound system with navigation.

Wanted to post this to anyone who is searching the forum thinking of doing the same. The front speakers cross over inside the head unit. For those not familiar with what a cross over is, basically the head unit outputs a signal to the speakers. When there are component speakers (for example a woofer and tweeter) the signal goes into a unit called the cross-over, this is where the signal is split and the lower frequency sound is sent to the woofer (the larger speaker on the door panel) and the high frequency is sent to the tweeter (on the dashboard). When installing aftermarket speakers/amps/subs to an existing head unit it is important to get a clean signal AND complete signal. By crossing over inside the head-unit/amp any signal pulled from the front will be incomplete.

Here are some of the problems this causes:

1. if you try to pull the signal pushing the front speakers you will only get the midrange signal and no highs. If you use the front speakers to pull your signal to your amp you'll have no highs.

2. A logical next step would be to use the rear speakers as the signal source. This cause two other issues. the first is you lose your fade ability, meaning you can't adjust the audio from the front of the vehicle to the rear. This wasn't a big deal to me but the second issue is this - the bluetooth phone feature uses the front speakers to play the callers voice when using the hands-free phone. After the install using the rear speakers as signal there you will use the ability to hear the caller on the other line when you're hands-free essentially making the bluetooth phone feature useless.

The solution I'm considering now, that was recommended by the audi shop who installed the system is to use a Audison sound processor with 8 lines-in for every signal from the head unit. This will give the ability to get back the voice for calls as well as additional benefits of being able to precisely tune the system.

The other option of course is to replace the head unit.

And maybe an option I'm not thinking of?


Hope this helps someone.

 

[SOcalTRAIL]

Yup.

Run mids in the front doors.

Run full range speakers in the rear doors.

The dash speakers are technically full range I guess, but kind of like a tweeter.

I replaced all mine no problem, sounds phenominal. Used all CDT speakers.

Good luck

 

[harper7]

I recently upgraded the front and rear speakers and sub in my 2012 LE. The existing system was the JBL premium sound system with navigation.

Wanted to post this to anyone who is searching the forum thinking of doing the same. The front speakers cross over inside the head unit. For those not familiar with what a cross over is, basically the head unit outputs a signal to the speakers. When there are component speakers (for example a woofer and tweeter) the signal goes into a unit called the cross-over, this is where the signal is split and the lower frequency sound is sent to the woofer (the larger speaker on the door panel) and the high frequency is sent to the tweeter (on the dashboard). When installing aftermarket speakers/amps/subs to an existing head unit it is important to get a clean signal AND complete signal. By crossing over inside the head-unit/amp any signal pulled from the front will be incomplete.

Here are some of the problems this causes:

1. if you try to pull the signal pushing the front speakers you will only get the midrange signal and no highs. If you use the front speakers to pull your signal to your amp you'll have no highs.

2. A logical next step would be to use the rear speakers as the signal source. This cause two other issues. the first is you lose your fade ability, meaning you can't adjust the audio from the front of the vehicle to the rear. This wasn't a big deal to me but the second issue is this - the bluetooth phone feature uses the front speakers to play the callers voice when using the hands-free phone. After the install using the rear speakers as signal there you will use the ability to hear the caller on the other line when you're hands-free essentially making the bluetooth phone feature useless.

The solution I'm considering now, that was recommended by the audi shop who installed the system is to use a Audison sound processor with 8 lines-in for every signal from the head unit. This will give the ability to get back the voice for calls as well as additional benefits of being able to precisely tune the system.

The other option of course is to replace the head unit.

And maybe an option I'm not thinking of?


Hope this helps someone.

The crossovers and setting up of the soundstage is done by the 650watt amp in the back at least with the JBL with nav, not the HU. I replaced the HU with a Pioneer and it was the same.

Replaced my oem speakers with like speakers but of better quality and they sound great IMO.
Up front the dash had tweeter/mids and I replaced with Kappa 32.9cf's and that is the signal I get and the front doors only had woofers so I replaced with Polk woofers .The rear doors and hatch all had full range co-axials so I replaced them with JL Audio co-axials. The sub is still stock and needs replaced..

I have no idea what "1. if you try to pull the signal pushing the front speakers you will only get the midrange signal and no highs. If you use the front speakers to pull your signal to your amp you'll have no highs."

My Infinity Kappa dash speakers get the highs and mid range and sound crisp clear and loud.

 

[ChipG]

Get a second opinion !

A good car audio mechanic would find a way to combine the internally crossed over signal into a full range signal with out a $1000 Audison Bit 1.

2. Scan the frequency on each set of leads and install a speaker suited to those frequencies.

 

[terra4r]

yeah i wish i could get my hands on an audison $$$

 

[characterzero]

The crossovers and setting up of the soundstage is done by the 650watt amp in the back at least with the JBL with nav, not the HU. I replaced the HU with a Pioneer and it was the same.

Replaced my oem speakers with like speakers but of better quality and they sound great IMO.
Up front the dash had tweeter/mids and I replaced with Kappa 32.9cf's and that is the signal I get and the front doors only had woofers so I replaced with Polk woofers .The rear doors and hatch all had full range co-axials so I replaced them with JL Audio co-axials. The sub is still stock and needs replaced..

I have no idea what "1. if you try to pull the signal pushing the front speakers you will only get the midrange signal and no highs. If you use the front speakers to pull your signal to your amp you'll have no highs."

My Infinity Kappa dash speakers get the highs and mid range and sound crisp clear and loud.

Yeah, in my understanding of this setup, you are right, it is most common to see the crossover handled by the amp hardware.

I agree that if you replace the dash speakers with a high/tweet, it will get just the high/tweet stuff the factory intended them to get, and replacing the woofers in the door with any speaker will just get the woofer frequency (ie: you can put a coax in but don't expect highs).

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

JBL Premium Audio with Nav

Harper7 has it 100% correct. Crossover, equalization handled by amp not head unit. Front dash is high pass. Front doors are low pass. If you replace the speakers with Kappas like Harper7, front stage improvement is dramatic. Could use a little fine tuning between dash/door/sub crossover but amp is locked down by Toyota and almost impossible to crack. Overall, just changing the speakers will give you a better sound quality system than just about anyone's factory system and better than a lot of aftermarket stuff cause most people tune for spl and end up with subpar quality. Hard to find a coaxial to fit in the dash. JL C2 fit. I used Infinity Kappa like Harper7. Good sound (maybe little thin) and very efficient so plays almost as loud as the ****ty stock speakers. Used the 6 x 9 mid/woofer from a Kappa component system. I think it plays a little too soft.

System sounds very good but I'm a little obsessed and pulling the trigger to see if I can improve it. In 2 weeks I get my Helix P-DSP and Helix amps and Alumapro 8" sub. Want to time align, do a little equalization and most of all, adjust crossover points and get more power and a remote volume control for the sub. Sub is more for accuracy and speed. Does not bump down low but is the sweetest sound quality sub around for the price.

 

[Neauxla]

The crossovers and setting up of the soundstage is done by the 650watt amp in the back at least with the JBL with nav, not the HU. I replaced the HU with a Pioneer and it was the same.

Replaced my oem speakers with like speakers but of better quality and they sound great IMO.
Up front the dash had tweeter/mids and I replaced with Kappa 32.9cf's and that is the signal I get and the front doors only had woofers so I replaced with Polk woofers .The rear doors and hatch all had full range co-axials so I replaced them with JL Audio co-axials. The sub is still stock and needs replaced..

I have no idea what "1. if you try to pull the signal pushing the front speakers you will only get the midrange signal and no highs. If you use the front speakers to pull your signal to your amp you'll have no highs."

My Infinity Kappa dash speakers get the highs and mid range and sound crisp clear and loud.

Did you have to add an amp? If so, where did you out it? If not, is your system softer now due to the aftermarket speakers?

 

[SD G-Mote]

Did you have to add an amp? If so, where did you out it? If not, is your system softer now due to the aftermarket speakers?

I replaced all my speakers with the Infiniti Kappa series. Ran the components up front (the "tweeter" was installed in the dash, 6 inch mid in the door). Ran coaxials in the rear door and the rear hatch. 6.5... I believe. Ran a kenwood 5 channel "reference" amp (fits under the driver side, rear seat, 900 watts). Then ran a 10 inch shallow Kicker woofer in a shallow truck box. Box can be moved around as needed in the rear cargo and take up almost no room. Result was incredible. No need to replace the deck. Just needed a high to low pass adapter that runs about $25. My total stereo upgrade ran about 1200. But well well worth it. One of the best upgrades I have done so far.

Two major suggestions.... 1) run a bass volume/power knob. When the stereo is low, adjust down, when you really get it going you can turn it up. Even on very bass heavy songs, I rarely use more than about 1/2 power from the amp. and 2) the infiniti Kappa series are set on a positive 2 gain for the highs. To me they are very "bright". Too bright or high for my tastes. Set them back to negative 2. Then adjust at the deck to fine tune.

Incredible enough sound that my buddy [MENTION=50227]dirty[/MENTION]martini dropped the exact same system in his T4R.

 

[Neauxla]

Thanks for your reply but I am looking for something sub-$600 and JBL system specific.

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

Thanks for your reply but I am looking for something sub-$600 and JBL system specific.

Why didn't you say that from the start? 3 1/2" coaxial in dash = $125 or so. 8" sub to replace JBL = $100 - $200. Mono sub amp = $200. $100 for incidentals.

 

[keathb]

Diagram

Does this mean I am out of luck in trying to locate a factory amp wiring diagram?

 

[DaveI]

I replaced all my speakers with the Infiniti Kappa series. Ran the components up front (the "tweeter" was installed in the dash, 6 inch mid in the door). Ran coaxials in the rear door and the rear hatch. 6.5... I believe. Ran a kenwood 5 channel "reference" amp (fits under the driver side, rear seat, 900 watts). Then ran a 10 inch shallow Kicker woofer in a shallow truck box. Box can be moved around as needed in the rear cargo and take up almost no room. Result was incredible. No need to replace the deck. Just needed a high to low pass adapter that runs about $25. My total stereo upgrade ran about 1200. But well well worth it. One of the best upgrades I have done so far.

Two major suggestions.... 1) run a bass volume/power knob. When the stereo is low, adjust down, when you really get it going you can turn it up. Even on very bass heavy songs, I rarely use more than about 1/2 power from the amp. and 2) the infiniti Kappa series are set on a positive 2 gain for the highs. To me they are very "bright". Too bright or high for my tastes. Set them back to negative 2. Then adjust at the deck to fine tune.

Incredible enough sound that my buddy [MENTION=50227]dirty[/MENTION]martini dropped the exact same system in his T4R.

Did you need to make any modifications to get the Infiniti Kappas to fit? I really liked those speakers in the past and I'd like to get some for my 2015.

 

[GRIMACE]

Does this mean I am out of luck in trying to locate a factory amp wiring diagram?

Check out [MENTION=83083]rigtec[/MENTION] link. He has a diagram set up.


http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/174196-got-bass-8.html

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/210591-alpine-1-dash-component-review.html


I'm replacing my dash speakers right now with the Alpine dome tweeter's per his posts. It's interesting that the JBL package speaker's are exactly the same as non-JBL speakers per the pics I have seen posted.

 

[keathb]

Infinity Speakers

First...Thanks Grimace.

Next...I am going to swap out the horrible factory system in my 2015 with infinity components, memphis audio sub, and alpine amps... debating on changing head unit but not 100% sold on that yet.

Anyone interested in details?

 

[rigtec]

First...Thanks Grimace.

Next...I am going to swap out the horrible factory system in my 2015 with infinity components, memphis audio sub, and alpine amps... debating on changing head unit but not 100% sold on that yet.

Anyone interested in details?

Hi Keith,

You know an old mechanic once told me; I was just a young boy of 18 or 19 at the time... that "There's 'ALWAYS' a way to get around an obstacle, if... you think before you give up!" And I never forgot that lesson; I still approach things that way to this day, cuz it has served me so well! Try removing the amp and look for a Defeat switch; which will turn off the X-over filters. If there's no defeat switch look for an alternative input, like a 'Post EQ/Filter input.

And if there's no pre/post inputs then just shop around for a low price five channel full-range power amp... w/ no cooling fan, and has very similar physical measurements, easy to replace an amp; and it will likely have better features than the JBL. Remember: those JBL amps have already been sold (in bulk) to Toyota, so it will be 'Standard grade, No frills or special features'! So shop at CRUTCHFIELD (their mark-up are on the order of 250% retail, but buy a name brand channel amp at Amazon or Ebay!

Please keep us posted as to what direction you decide to go in, Thanks,

rig

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

2010 jbl premium wiring diagram atached

 

[SD G-Mote]

Did you need to make any modifications to get the Infiniti Kappas to fit? I really liked those speakers in the past and I'd like to get some for my 2015.

The front speakers needed some minor modifications to make them fit. for the 6inch miss in the door, a 6x9 adapter was used. the "tweeter" in the dash a small amount of plywood was used to make the speaker fit. Overall, the install was very easy and the sound is incredible.

 

[Neauxla]

Why didn't you say that from the start? 3 1/2" coaxial in dash = $125 or so. 8" sub to replace JBL = $100 - $200. Mono sub amp = $200. $100 for incidentals.

How do you keep all the factory speakers on the JBL amp and switch the sub over to the new amp? Also, is there any space to hide it behind the paneling?

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

How do you keep all the factory speakers on the JBL amp and switch the sub over to the new amp? Also, is there any space to hide it behind the paneling?

Remove rear passenger side paneling. Unbundle the wiring mess at the amp. Check out wiring diagram posted above for the sub speaker wires or just cut the wires near the sub. These will be your speaker level inputs for the sub amp. Make sure your sub amp has speaker level inputs or you may need to buy a line output converter (loc). I first used a cheapo Pac loc but the line level output was really weak. You may have to do a little trial and error with the amp gain or get a powered loc (Audio Control) and see if you can get enough volume.

I think there should be enough space behind the panel to fit a small sub amp. Get an amp with a remote volume control or you can put a line level volume control between the loc and the amp but this is less desirable (I think).

And do change the sub. All of the above is a total waste if you don't. You will be shocked at the "flimsinest" of the stock JBL.