5th Generation Poor Fuel Efficiency Causes?

[johnbt]

"city to be around 17MPG average and Highway drop to lower 14MPG's. Also if I drive in the 75 to 80 MPH area it drops to high 13's."

Beats me. Are you stuck in 4th gear?

 

[JayceeP]

This is a great thread. A lot of great information.

I have a 2020 Offroad Premium and am having what I'd call extreme poor mileage. I do have some modifications that I suspect are contributing, but they should not at the level that I'm seeing. I have a 2" leveling kit in the front and 285/70R17's KO2's. I also have a bug deflector. I do need to install a 1" body lift to stop my tires from rubbing on a sharp turn in reverse. This won't help, but do want to keep the look and like the performance of the tires. I have less than 1000 miles on it, it's still breaking in also, but still seems extreme.

My mileage is better in town/city than on the highway which is a bit confusing. I actually see the mileage in the city to be around 17MPG average and Highway drop to lower 14MPG's. Also if I drive in the 75 to 80 MPH area it drops to high 13's.

So far, I like the vehicle. It's my first, I traded a Tacoma for it. Not impressed with the power, but it does get me where I need to go.

Wondering if anyone else is seeing anything like this with the 2020.

Thanks.

Almost every “I have a problem” thread on this forum begins with some reference to that person having a lift. Between a levelling kit, a body lift, and the drag of the off-road tires (which are also bigger than OEM spec) would probably explain why your mileage is worse on the highway. Your aerodynamics are definitely a lot different. At 14MPG.... my fuel economy would only be about 20% better than you on a 75-80mph highway run. I would probably get about 17.5. Anything better is because of favourable wind conditions and/or flat road. I do have a bug deflector and mud guards.

 

[adrummingdude]

 

[Generalisimo]

So let me guess, you’re routinely getting 22mpg on the highway @70-80 and 18 in heavy stop and go city driving. Sounds about right.

 

[Generalisimo]

JayceeP said it best, “ Almost every “I have a problem” thread on this forum begins with some reference to that person having a lift.”
The largest letters on the MSRP window sticker are the 18mpg average you can expect for a OEM stock vehicle driven in a reasonable manner. The aerodynamics of the 4RUNNER are pretty much the same as a brick on wheels. Putting it up higher off the ground, adding big ass cool looking wheels and tires has an additional aftermarket cost, decreased MPG. There’s quite a few jacked up pick-up’s, Jeeps and 4Runner where I’m at here in Arizona, you rarely see em ease off the line. Mostly they’re haulin ass, after all who wants to drive a cool truck like a grandpa.

 

[adrummingdude]

So let me guess, you’re routinely getting 22mpg on the highway @70-80 and 18 in heavy stop and go city driving. Sounds about right.

Depends on how long it's been since they've eaten. When they're fasting, I can squeeze out 23. Hand calculated of course, because the computer shows at least 48.

 

[LandCruiser]

I have a 2013 TE with a 3" Icon lift, rock sliders, Destination MTs on knockoff FJ steelie wheels and can't get better than 14.7 MPG combined.

Can someone help me?

 

[Hubble]

I just completed a 5300km (3300mile) trip from Toronto to mid-Texas and back with my wife, daughter, two dogs and luggage. Most of the drive consisted of 70-80mph speeds while using cruise control once up to speed for the majority of the time. According to the dash, I averaged 15.5mpg there and back which is a little lower than I had hoped for, but was to be expected. The only part I found slightly annoying was that the tranny liked to hold onto 4th gear longer than needed at times, but I overcame that by canceling/resume cruise control.

 

[02SE]

I have a 2013 TE with a 3" Icon lift, rock sliders, Destination MTs on knockoff FJ steelie wheels and can't get better than 14.7 MPG combined.

Can someone help me?

I can: Buy a Prius.

 

[Hamburgerpimp]

I just completed a 2000 mile round trip from San Diego to Idaho, averaged 13 MPG with 295's and 4.88 gears. Seems the gears didn't do much for MPG as that's about what I got prior to installing them.

One thing to consider for anyone running oversize tires is that the vehicle is actually covering slightly for miles that the ODO and mileage computer is picking up. My speedo is off (slow) by 4 MPH so I was probably getting closer to ~13.5 MPG. Still pretty awful, but that's the way it goes with these vehicles. I did not buy it for its efficiency.

Anyone done any of these ideas for fuel economy?

1. Exhaust changes such as Cat Black to gain flow, or reduce resistance?

2. Intake air box modifications such as K&N air box?

3. Electric Fan?

4. Different gearing?

I don't know what the newer fans do, but I remember in my early days, the fan consumed a couple HP.

Just curious what others may have tried. I've seen a quite a few posts on what takes away from the mileage, but not a lot on what may add to it.

Thanks
TeaMan

 

[gearguywb]

I just completed a 2000 mile round trip from San Diego to Idaho, averaged 13 MPG with 295's and 4.88 gears. Seems the gears didn't do much for MPG as that's about what I got prior to installing them.

One thing to consider for anyone running oversize tires is that the vehicle is actually covering slightly for miles that the ODO and mileage computer is picking up. My speedo is off (slow) by 4 MPH so I was probably getting closer to ~13.5 MPG. Still pretty awful, but that's the way it goes with these vehicles. I did not buy it for its efficiency.

You may be pleasantly surprised when you do the actual math. Without knowing what tires were on the vehicle, and the actual size of your current ones, your miles traveled may well be around a 10% difference.

Add in gears and it will be a bit tougher to figure your actual miles traveled vs the odometer.

 

[4Runner-416dude]

Mr Al Bundy, I am jumping up and down for good reason. The dealer really worked hard to get me out of this situation. (I note that the truck that I traded in in on his lot for only $1000 over what I was given for trade in... when you figure in that I got the new truck for a hair over invoice and that anyone is going to want a discount on the used truck the dealer will be lucky to break even in this deal.... not to mention the cost of certifying it for the CPO Toyota warranty.)

The thread is about gas milage though and here are a few observations regarding that:

-The new truck continues to get better fuel efficiency.
-On both trucks I only use tier 2 gasoline (Texaco and Chevron are the same gas but in our area Texaco is always about $.10-15 cheaper.)
-I broke in both engines with no full throttle acceleration and varying the speed
-Both trucks were delivered with under 10 miles on them so I was not a victim of test drive jockeys
-What makes me feel that there was something wrong other than milage is the fact that the new truck cruises more effortlessly and does not bog down big time on hills.

In regards to the other questions:

- even with a cruising speed of 75 mph I am seeing 20 mpg on the flats (Like the areas around Chicago)
-The Xreas suspension is a big step in the right direction. I have not gone off road but have hit speed humps 5 feet apart at 30 mph... it is firmer than the SR5 but still sucks up the big hits. Much less nose dive under braking and cornering feels like Toyota gave an SR5 to BMW M department for a day to work out the kinks. I am a retired indycar driver and know how to make cars handle... and I am sure that with a few hours at an alignment shop I could improve this truck for on road use.. but with the longer suspension travel I am far from an expert on set up on a 4runner but with my background I can offer a professional opinion about the handling.
-Flatter through the corners so it allows the tires to set quicker in a corner.
-Once set it will follow a line without falling over the outside sidewall of the tires.
-Understeer is acceptable, (For safety all passenger vehicles are set up with understeer.) You can lift off the throttle mid corner and tighten up the line.. in a SR5 you can do this as well but the transition is less predictable and passengers will feel like the truck is going to flip. In the Limited they feel like you are driving swiftly.. in the sr5 they feel that you are being reckless. (This is all based on cloverleaf on ramps and off ramps.)
-You can even trail brake a limited in a corner to tighten up the line... in the SR5 at the limit this tends to cause a push at the front end.

-For the general consumer the limited has more headroom for driver error, it will stop faster because it takes less time for the suspension to firm up on the front end, (less nose dive) and because it is not diving as much... the suspension angles are more consistant under braking making the ability to steer under braking more predictable... also straighter stops.
-This is comparing a YOKO geolander vs Mich MS2. If the MS2 came in the 20X7 inch wheel size I would predict that the handleing gap would even be larger.

The interior.. just go to a toyota dealer. This is subjective. I like the seats and the white stitching on the black leather. I do have to admit that the new navigation system is either a step back or I need to spend a few hours learning all the features. (There must be a mute button that I have missed... I truly hope!) It still is more intuitive than the Idrive in my other car but right now it is rather annoying.

Overall I am a happy camper, and I feel that I just got a monday morning truck in my old SR5. I have written a lot about how the LTD is better than the SR5... the SR5 is still a great truck... better in my opinion if you were driving logging roads all day long... but for the street the Limited is superior. The right tool for the job... that is why hammers come in so many sizes.:lookout:

This guy knows what’s up!!! Cheers!

My 5th Gen LTD computer says : 13.5L/100k doing 130-140km/h, all highway, with rare downshifts.

And 16l/100k city - gridlocked in city hell.

It is what it is.. this is with factory spec. (No lift on 20’s)

 

[Metalsaber]

I live in a rural area. I'm stock except falken wildpeak at3ws (stock size) tires. I'm getting 19-20 mpg.

 

[760Runner]

I have a 2013 TE with a 3" Icon lift, rock sliders, Destination MTs on knockoff FJ steelie wheels and can't get better than 14.7 MPG combined.

Can someone help me?

2010 TE with icon 3" , sliders, skids, snorkel, 285 wild peaks.. that seems about right, im getting 12.5mpg

 

[Bmnorm2]

Anyone done any of these ideas for fuel economy?

1. Exhaust changes such as Cat Black to gain flow, or reduce resistance?

2. Intake air box modifications such as K&N air box?

3. Electric Fan?

4. Different gearing?

I don't know what the newer fans do, but I remember in my early days, the fan consumed a couple HP.

Just curious what others may have tried. I've seen a quite a few posts on what takes away from the mileage, but not a lot on what may add to it.

Thanks
TeaMan

The absolute most effective mod you can make is the driver. I've averaged 19.9 MPG over 14k miles on my stock '21 Nightshade. My best is 24.9 MPG over 230 miles of rural highway (55mph) w/ occasional stop signs. I recently achieved 23.1 MPG over 275 miles.

The most significant factors to your fuel economy are speed and acceleration, aerodynamics, mass, grade, and rolling resistance. The engine itself is far less significant (see naturally aspirated v6 vs v8 trucks with essentially same fuel economy rating).

The only significant factors listed above that you can easily impact are speed and acceleration.

Instead of going 80 on the highway, go 75 or 70. The drag force (aero) is approximately inversely proportional to velocity^2. Since the velocity is squared, 70mph^2 (4900) vs 80mph^2 (6400) = a 30% increase in drag force!

Instead of racing to that next light that you can see is RED, just coast to it. If someone gets in front of you before that light, ITS OKAY, you aren't going to arrive at your destination any later. You'll drastically improve your fuel economy and reduce brake and suspension wear.

 

[Bmnorm2]

This is a great thread. A lot of great information.

I have a 2020 Offroad Premium and am having what I'd call extreme poor mileage. I do have some modifications that I suspect are contributing, but they should not at the level that I'm seeing. I have a 2" leveling kit in the front and 285/70R17's KO2's. I also have a bug deflector. I do need to install a 1" body lift to stop my tires from rubbing on a sharp turn in reverse. This won't help, but do want to keep the look and like the performance of the tires. I have less than 1000 miles on it, it's still breaking in also, but still seems extreme.

My mileage is better in town/city than on the highway which is a bit confusing. I actually see the mileage in the city to be around 17MPG average and Highway drop to lower 14MPG's. Also if I drive in the 75 to 80 MPH area it drops to high 13's.

So far, I like the vehicle. It's my first, I traded a Tacoma for it. Not impressed with the power, but it does get me where I need to go.

Wondering if anyone else is seeing anything like this with the 2020.

Thanks.

2" leveling kit = ruined aerodynamics.. There is a reason vehicles are intentionally raked forward and it has to do with both aerodynamics and dynamic suspension behavior (accel/decel: traction)

Very Heavy, high rolling resistance tires...

Both of these changes will have a much greater impact on the vehicle road load at higher speeds.

Your results are exactly what I would expect.

You will see a small improvement in fuel economy after break-in (~1-3mpg dependent on many conditions).

 

[Pedro367]

The absolute most effective mod you can make is the driver. I've averaged 19.9 MPG over 14k miles on my stock '21 Nightshade. My best is 24.9 MPG over 230 miles of rural highway (55mph) w/ occasional stop signs. I recently achieved 23.1 MPG over 275 miles.

The most significant factors to your fuel economy are speed and acceleration, aerodynamics, mass, and rolling resistance. The engine itself is far less significant (see naturally aspirated v6 vs v8 trucks with essentially same fuel economy rating).

The only significant factors listed above that you can easily impact are speed and acceleration.

Instead of going 80 on the highway, go 75 or 70. The drag force (aero) is approximately inversely proportional to velocity^2. Since the velocity is squared, 70mph^2 (4900) vs 80mph^2 (6400) = a 30% increase in drag force!

Instead of racing to that next light that you can see is RED, just coast to it. If someone gets in front of you before that light, ITS OKAY, you aren't going to arrive at your destination any later. You'll drastically improve your fuel economy and reduce brake and suspension wear.

I don't know how you guys do it. I like to think of myself as a pretty "grandma like" driver and I can't get the average above 17mpg and maybe 21 on the highway. Even when it was bone stock before the 1" level and factory sized c-load KO2s (essentially still stock). 20mpg average seems borderline impossible to me. Maybe there is "grandma" and then there is "super grandma," but 3mpg gain seems crazy.

 

[Mr_Bingley]

I don't know how you guys do it. I like to think of myself as a pretty "grandma like" driver and I can't get the average above 17mpg and maybe 21 on the highway. Even when it was bone stock before the 1" level and factory sized c-load KO2s (essentially still stock). 20mpg average seems borderline impossible to me. Maybe there is "grandma" and then there is "super grandma," but 3mpg gain seems crazy.

The up-n-down hills out there where you live kill the mileage I think. I live closer to the Shore and I routinely get 20 around town and 23 on the Parkway.

 

[Bmnorm2]

Driving conditions are a huge factor too. If you are in downtown city conditions idling at stop lights for most of your drive there really isn’t much you can do.

I live near Greenville, SC, so my driving is low traffic, rarely true city conditions, and almost always several miles of 45-65 mph stretches with a few or no lights. If I were in a different environment I think 17-18 mpg is the best I could average.

 

[Pedro367]

The up-n-down hills out there where you live kill the mileage I think. I live closer to the Shore and I routinely get 20 around town and 23 on the Parkway.

For sure could be it. I'm down in Cape May frequently and the Parkway trips are always my best tanks. Plus winter blend fuel now doesn't help.