Negative! There is no ! repeat no! Fix for the electrical issue to run a sas on Toyota . I have called and spoke to the owners of Dyna track , Currie , all pro off-road , and any other person that would listen . Every straight axle FJ cruiser that you see does not have working electronics.
6" lift is taking off in Hawaii
- Thread starter KonaHI808
- Start date
Negative! There is no ! repeat no! Fix for the electrical issue to run a sas on Toyota . I have called and spoke to the owners of Dyna track , Currie , all pro off-road , and any other person that would listen . Every straight axle FJ cruiser that you see does not have working electronics.
BlackWorksInc
New member
I don't get why it would be an issue? You should be able to bypass the 4WD ECU in a way that it's happy and does not set any DTCs (you'd just have to trick the 4WD ECU into always believing it's in 4Hi and switch to a manual transfercase). This is really the only computer that would set a DTC worthy of an MIL (per OBDII regulations), the rest would be ABS/VSC/TRAC related and that could be also bypassed if need be or just left on (unless Smog laws in California changed in the last few years to include ALL warning lamps and not just the OBDII/Emissions mandated MIL.) So as long as you kept the smog equipment for everything else and just changed the axles and suspension you should be okay for Smog since those components have nothing to do with emissions from a mechanical standpoint.
Well I run 33" tires, but I do pretty well on a lot of trails and my 2.5" diameter OLW lift kit. Granted I am not rock crawling 3ft+ boulders like some of the guys with 35" or larger tires and/or Long Travel/SAS rigs; but then again that's a bit niche in the broad term that is "Off-Roading." I went wheeling with guys running sticky 32" ATs and 39" tires with varying lifts up in Shaver Lake and we all made it through and back fine.
Like I said before, it comes down to proper set-up and application. Bracket Lifts are not inherently bad, they just get installed/slapped on improperly a lot, much like any other lift kit that is being added because it "looks good" vs. the person sitting down and thinking about what they want to accomplish.
bimrunner
New member
However, this one does. WFO in Auburn CA made all the adapters for them. He has gone through smog and passes. He is a buddy of the guy who built my armor.
Regarding the SAS, unplug the sensors from the front of your 4runner and try and drive it and see what happens. It will throw all kinds of lights including the check engine which will not allow it to be smogged. There is no bypass there is no work around as of now. It's really easy to hang an axle and go beat it up off road. What's not easy it is to hang the axle and make the electronics work correctly with the ABS and computer. Many people have been working on this for a long time including myself. Toyota uses a inverted square wave and everybody else like jeep uses something different. It's just not that easy.
Regarding your statement on the bracket kit that's totally sensible, anything could be installed incorrectly including a leveling kit. So yes if a bracket kit is installed incorrectly it would be a problem just like if a leveling kit was installed incorrectly with the wrong tires and wheels that would be a problem. Any modifications done incorrectly are a problem. What you want to assume is all bracket kits are installed incorrectly and that's not the case .
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BlackWorksInc
New member
I'm assuming that they are typically installed incorrectly because the LARGE majority of all lifts/off-road vehicles I see tend not to be set-up correctly (bracket lifts and suspension lifts included). This is more because many people are either unaware, inexperience, easily duped by parts sellers/installers, and/or ignoring/no considering what the various mods they want to install actually do. I realize it's a very pessimistic attitude, but based on my experience the the evidence I've seen, it's a more realistic one. That's why I said "IF" it's done right, which is a common theme in many of my comments regarding certain modifications/styles; what can I say... I have trust issues.
The member earlier in the post asked me to explain why I thought there were problems, which I did from the point of view that since it was neither confirmed nor denied that the vehicle modification was done correctly; it was better to assume it was done incorrectly to the furthest extent and list the reasons there. Thus whatever sections of the modifications were done correctly would mean that those negatives would not apply, I rather err on the side of caution/skepticism until enough information is provided than assume the best (humanity has consistently failed me enough that "hope" and "benefit of the doubt" are rarely used in my vocabulary.)
As for your comment about disconnecting the sensors, it depends on the sensors you're unplugging. Anything related to ABS/VSC/TRAC systems will NOT set an MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp also referred to as a Check Engine Lamp) because these systems have nothing to do with the emissions of the vehicle (it's actually common for people to disconnect the Master Cylinder Pressure Sensor on 4th & 5th gen 4Runners and FJs to disable the ABS/VSC/TRAC systems, reconnecting it and restarting the vehicle resets the lights and the vehicle returns to normal operation due to the single trip nature of the ABS system). However if you disconnected the ADD or a transfercase switch, it could set an MIL (and subsequently disable the ABS/VSC.TRAC systems as a safety feature, hence why the lights turn on) if the ECM is programmed to account for 4WD control as part of it's emissions set (this is likely since it requires input/output from the ECM regarding engine and transmission data, which all falls under maintaining proper emissions and thus OBDII regulations.) Systems such as BSM, ABS, SRS, Multi-Terrain, ect. that do not directly affect engine or emissions operation do not set an MIL and thus will not "fail" the vehicle from an OBDII/Emissions standpoint. Keep in mind there are two separate systems in a modern OBDII vehicle; the side the EPA Controls (OBDII) and the manufacturer side, as long as it doesn't fall under OBDII the manufacturer can do whatever the hell they want.
This thread explains the set-up a bit better:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/151487-check-engine-trac-vsc-read-me.html
Post Note:
What do you mean by inverted square wave, are you talking about ABS wheel speed sensors? Toyota started using 3 wire Active Wheel Speed Sensors around the time of the 4th gen because they are more accurate, I imagine trying to use those with old LC axles or Danas needs modification. Do Jeep Wranglers even bother with active sensors?
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KonaHI808
New member
Well in response to [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION] , I wanna assume that he is seeing vehicles that are getting serviced. I think we can for the most part assume most of us who actually work on our rigs and know what works for our needs and what doesn't through trial and error "usually" service our own vehicles... (I hate it when people use the term "rigs" in my opinion hahaha) so I would give it to you that most of the IFS vehicles are poorly built. Now if you are even mentioning vehicles in your circle that are poorly built, it seems he at least wheels by trial and error which is how must of us here do it. We actually know what works and what doesn't oppose to acting like vehicle experts based on what Mr. Google tells us. It seems like your biggest defense are poorly built suspensions. I would agree with [MENTION=20381]05Rrunner[/MENTION] that your basing you opinion on a bunch of people who actually don't know what they are doing. And to add to what he said, give me a off road situation or real application that a 6" lift with equal quality parts(i.e. control arms, shocks, springs) would be inferior to a 3" lift... other than on road driving? And if anyone says road drivability then I'm gonna file a complaint for 1st degree contradiction... haha
BlackWorksInc
New member
Well like I mentioned before, if the 6" lift is done properly and set-up well I don't really have an issue with it to be honest with you; still not quite my cup of tea but I always appreciate good functional mods done well.
I don't think that the 6" lift is inferior to the 3", but I honestly don't see a lot of instances where a 6" lift is going to have any significant advantage over a good 3" with 33~35" tires; most of the advantages tend to be in the niche area of either rock crawling or deep snow/mud type terrain, which is all good don't get me wrong. But most trails and terrain seem to be manageable with a good 3" set-up, I mean obviously if you've got big'ol 37's or 39's and you're lifted 6" you're gonna go over some stuff easier than the guy with a 3 and 35's. But driving technique and choosing your lines properly can offset much of that, something I saw and experienced first hand when we went to Shaver Lake with our 4th gen fellow with the 40's; he went over some terrain far easier than we did, but ultimately we didn't have that much more a difficult time doing either the same lines or similar ones.
Bottom Line-
If the bracket lift is done properly and it's a functional mod vs. just going for that "Bro-Dozer" look, I don't have any real complaints about it; not my cup of tea but I always appreciate good work. I also don't think a 6" lifted 4Runner is inferior to a 3" lifted one, but I don't think those extra 3" provide a significant enough improvement in capability outside of one or two niche areas of "Off-Roading" to justify the cost and higher center of gravity and reduction in on-road handling (which is somewhat important to me since my 4Runner doesn't get babied off-road or on-road and I just don't think I could stand having to deal with the roll and high Center of Gravity that a 6" lift with 37's or 39's would bring to the pavement, it'd feel too much like a Ford or GM truck at that point.)
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KonaHI808
New member
I respect your opinion but on one hand you say the difference is negligible with performance but on the other hand you distinguish how different they are when it comes to COG and body roll... gotta choose a side... it's either a big enough difference to affect all aspect or nah... I think that if it wouldn't make too much of a difference off road, it wouldn't make much of a difference on...
Serious off-roaders only need about a two inch lift, and lockers front and rear. Flex in the suspension is where it's at. Keep the chassis flat and the suspension floating. These build of the months are ridiculas
KonaHI808
New member
I shouldn't engage but how does your 2" lift add flex? Lockers front and rears I definitely agree with... I'll be back tomorrow...
Land_Shark
New member
He never said it added flex. He finished one thought which was that a 2 inch lift is about all the lift you need (i.e. lower COG); then he started another thought, which was a comment stating that flex is incredibly more important to proper off roading than how much lift you have. I agree, I'd rather gave a 2in lift and superior suspension travel than a 6in lift with little to no travel. That would be like driving a really tall GC.
Long travel suspension allows you to keep more rubber on the earth, which everyone knows means more traction, less chance of tipping over, etc, etc....
LawnDart
Senior Member
As an aside I'm not seeing a ton of 4runners here in Hawaii, but holy Jesus goddamn Christ there's more Tacomas then I've ever seen in my life. Amazing.
Also while I'd love to have my 4Runner out here it's pretty apparent the climate and salt water in the air eats vehicles for lunch.
Also while I'd love to have my 4Runner out here it's pretty apparent the climate and salt water in the air eats vehicles for lunch.
Jetboy
New member
I think there are a few key identifiers. Here's my 10 step guide to building a brodozer.
First - a really tall lift. Usually some type of bracket and/or lift blocks. Sometimes SUPER deep arch leaf springs. Real brodozers don't flex. Flexing is for the owner only for his instagram pics!
Second - tires that are too small for the lift. If you're going up 6+ inches but keeping stock fenders, probably a brodozer.
Third - exhaust stacks in the bed. Classic brodozer. Must put semi truck ish exhaust pipes through the bed. You have a truck but need to let us know you'd never consider actually using it for work. Brodozer.
Fourth - D - shackles and hooks all over. Nothing makes a brodozer more badass than a couple wildly oversized d shackles on the bumpers and probably on the rear hitch too. Might as well add some truck nutz for good measure!
5th - Differential covers with cooling ribs. Because we all know how you overheat your differentials and need to keep 'em cool. Better put some chrome on that bad boy too! And even better make it out of aluminum. That's super durable!
6th - Paint all your suspension different colors. You spent a lot of $ making your brodozer have terrible suspension. Better show it off! Nothing says hardcore off-road like polished high gloss purple suspension.
7th - Anything that helps you pretend you're driving a big rig. 10 lug wheel conversions are where it's at. With that much power you'll sheer lug nuts all the time. It's common knowledge that your axles, diffs, u joints, and hub studs are all much stronger than the lug nuts. Better upgrade to at least 10 lug wheels!
8th - Axle trusses. Because you know you'll be bending the crap out of those stock axle tubes with all that offroading you're doing at the mall. Better truss them on the bottom too! Helps with ground clearance. - and paint that shit GREEN!!! yeah!
9th - More shocks!! Gotta have lots of shocks. You're gonna run KOH next year, and we all know at least 10 shocks is the minimum. And they better be polished chrome!
10th - Decals. From all your sponsors. Gotta show off your fake sponsors. And you probably better do a two tone paint job with barbed wire decals somewhere. Gotta have barbed wire! It just looks so darn good when you're standing next to it with your super original tribal tattoo.
chmura
New member
My annoying neighbor got a 6 inch lift on his 2014 Tacoma with 35"s. I was in my garage and he stopped to talk to me showing off his monster truck tacoma.
Do not get me wrong it was high but when I looked under the truck there was not much more ground clearance than my small 3 inch lift from Icon.
I was curious and I got out the measuring tape.. To my surprise I had more ground clearance than him. Those 6 inch lifts are all look. Once you add the drop cross member, etc it actually makes less ground clearance than a regular lift!
Once I showed my neighbor this. He stopped bragging about his lift..
Do not get me wrong it was high but when I looked under the truck there was not much more ground clearance than my small 3 inch lift from Icon.
I was curious and I got out the measuring tape.. To my surprise I had more ground clearance than him. Those 6 inch lifts are all look. Once you add the drop cross member, etc it actually makes less ground clearance than a regular lift!
Once I showed my neighbor this. He stopped bragging about his lift..
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