880, 881, 99 Talls Front Spring Lift Reality

[reelamin]

Yes I have searched this and getting solid measured information is not easy. There are hundreds of "abouts, close to, looks like, I think, et all" but few with hard actual measurements. The ones with measurements are from parked on a curb to suspended on a lift. I only say this because I have received the posts about searching and "its all over the site" but it actually is not so easy to find. I have spent easily over 100 hrs just on this site not counting the internet trying to figure this out. Why?? because I dont have 10 auto parts stores within a 20 minute drive of my house. I have NAPA period end of discussion unless I order on line. I am going with 5100 shocks front and rear.

This is my issue and I'm trying to help others.
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/231646-minimalist-265-75-16-tire-clearance-solution.html

So in the process I have the rear figured out, but the front is totally messing with my head. I measure exactly and please please please help if you have actual measurements. I do not and will not add a front lift with more than 1.5" of lift. I have no interest in spending even more money on parts to make the lift work. This is a rig driven for hours at a time with not even a hint of tire wear after 30K and I want to keep it that way.

My rig has stock 96 springs and blown out shocks on the front. It wallows down the road like screwing a fat chick on a water bed. No matter what I do I need to replace the front suspension. So I measure, compare, study, and crap...my worn out 257K suspension sits higher than most. All numbers provided with measured rigs.

Measured from center of hub to bottom of fender lip is 21. My compiled info says a 99 Tall measures out at 21.5". 880 spring will put me at 21.75" average lift. A 881 spring will put me at 22.5 average lift. WTF...how do I get 99 Tall measurements with a worn ass suspension??

So I go with the 881 but will that blow out my caster and dick me on driving ability? Or do I go with 880's and do other things to make chain clearance. No I dont want to go with stock springs because I can buy aftermarket for a lot less. I'm already putting more than half of what I paid for the rig into it with suspension and a winch.

Tear me up, throw some ideas, I'm open to pretty much anything. WTH do I do for front springs and not have to do anything other than a standard alignment?

 

[JayRolla]

Well after all your research did you account winch weight into your equation. Because all those measurements are out the window once you install a winch.

Standard alignment is fine up to 3" lift. Caster still can be aligned to toyota spec. Its right at the edge but in spec and drives just fine.

 

[tystaco]

It wallows down the road like screwing a fat chick on a water bed. No matter what I do I need to replace the front suspension.

This is my problem too! Worded so friggen eloquently.

 

[reelamin]

Well after all your research did you account winch weight into your equation. Because all those measurements are out the window once you install a winch.

It has no winch on it now....but I did add 120lbs to the front and measure it. I lost 3/8" of an inch.

 

[JayRolla]

Well after all your research did you account winch weight into your equation. Because all those measurements are out the window once you install a winch.

It has no winch on it now....but I did add 120lbs to the front and measure it. I lost 3/8" of an inch.

Nice. But this test would only work if you had the coils you want installed. I actually lost more than that. You need to drive a few days with teh weight. It just wore out my 881s.

 

[phattyduck]

The 5100's come with different front spring perch heights, in approx. 0.75" increments. Keep them stock springs, put it up 1 or 2 notches and you'll know exactly where you will land for height. The 5100's are designed for stock rate front springs, so should be the best 'fit' with what you are looking for.

-Charlie

 

[my95yj]

Just measured mine sitting out level in the parking lot: 21" in the front and 22" in the rear. Measured just like you stated. Running 881s/906s with Tundra 5100s front and rear, no trim packs; 265/75/16 tires. Stock bumpers - maybe 20lbs of basic hand tools in the back.

Stance and ride is just what i wanted: will sit like this for years, she is my DD.

Does the steering feel the same as stock? nope, i hoped it would, but it doesn't. there is a bit of wander in the steering. i know i should probably find another shop but i took it back twice and after the 2nd visit it tracks straight going down the hwy so i am fine with it.

i couldn't stand the super "rare" 2002 springs (jk) which in fact lower your 4Runner so i will live with the steering - at the end of the day, it is light years better than my Jeep and i love the commute in the Runner.

 

[Kyngfish]

My rig has stock 96 springs and blown out shocks on the front. It wallows down the road like screwing a fat chick on a water bed. No matter what I do I need to replace the front suspension. So I measure, compare, study, and crap...my worn out 257K suspension sits higher than most. All numbers provided with measured rigs.

Measured from center of hub to bottom of fender lip is 21. My compiled info says a 99 Tall measures out at 21.5". 880 spring will put me at 21.75" average lift. A 881 spring will put me at 22.5 average lift. WTF...how do I get 99 Tall measurements with a worn ass suspension??

I find my center of hub measurement to wheel arch varies based on whether or not I'm on truly level ground. Not an engineer but, if non-level ground impacts my height measurements - so would old springs - especially if you're sagging at the back relative to the front.

IF your rear end is sagging and you have negative rake, it stands to reason that weight will shift slightly backward and height at your point of contact to the ground will be impacted.

For what it's worth - the 880 is supposed to only be 1 inch over stock and you're at 21 now. I'm not sure how much front springs sag over time, but assuming your weight is shifting backwards it's reasonable to think that you might be getting a measurement a little higher than it should be if your springs were working properly in the rear.

I would just assume that your suspension is so messed up at this point that your truck is leaning in multiple directions and you're not getting a fair read - I have 906 in the rear and my measurements are fairly spot-on to what people in the forums were saying - I think you should just trust it.

 

[reelamin]

Nice. But this test would only work if you had the coils you want installed.

I do get that and appreciate the heads up. I put the weight on to run an estimate on what I would lose with a Shrockworks front bumper. I'm putting the winch on a carrier and it will not be permanently installed. When my 5100's arrive I will install the rear 906's, and I hope that gives me some assistance in what to do.

Well I found a couple other things I want t do while I'm waiting for my shocks. I found great stuff on here in all the different threads.

 

[Kyngfish]

Just measured mine sitting out level in the parking lot: 21" in the front and 22" in the rear. Measured just like you stated. Running 881s/906s with Tundra 5100s front and rear; 265/75/16 tires.

Are you running any rear trim packers? or any weight in the front? just wondering because I'm debating 880 vs 881 with my 906 and I do not want negative rake.

 

[reelamin]

I find my center of hub measurement to wheel arch varies based on whether or not I'm on truly level ground.

Thanks a lot and I agree with what you said. I only measure sitting on flat ground (concrete floor in shop). I do trust the measurements (when they say they measured) I posted up and provided by people on this site. Many, many people would go measure and provide me the information when I would PM a request.

I am not bashing or saying anything negative about the info I have compiled. I just can't afford to do this twice. I messed up on the shocks and it cost me over $40 just to return them. If my front end was where others are it would be much easier....but obviously it is not at all. Will see more after I get the 906's installed I hope.

 

[Kyngfish]

Thanks a lot and I agree with what you said. I only measure sitting on flat ground (concrete floor in shop). I do trust the measurements (when they say they measured) I posted up and provided by people on this site. Many, many people would go measure and provide me the information when I would PM a request.

Understood that you are measuring on level ground - sorry this was buried in my rant but my real point is - even if you are measuring on level ground, the fact that your rears are sagging, will raise up the front.

This may be why you are getting the "99 Talls" measurement, on a beat suspension.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

You're lifting to gain tire chain clearance, correct? And your closest points are at the bumper valance, and at the back of flare/front of running board- correct?
If that is true- and you are only looking to gain ~1" lift- I think you'll be very disappointed in the lack of clearance gained.
Adding wheel spacers cause your scrub radius to increase, which causes less clearance to the valance and running board/flare. Gained clearance between UCA/knuckle, but compromised clearance fore/aft of wheel opening.
My point is-
Lifting your rig a maximum of 1.5" will not likely give you any clearance in the areas you are looking to gain clearance.
Maybe I am not understanding exactly what your goal is, but if I am, I don't want you to go through all this just to be disappointed in the outcome. Regardless, I think you would be happiest with a set of '99 tall coils with adjustable 5100's. Designed for 4Runner if you want a lighter dampened, and Tundra for a tighter dampened.
I know you said you can get OME cheaper, but I am just giving my opinion. I guess the 880 would be the comparable spring to the '99 tall.
This post shows exactly what I am talking about-

Spacer and it also moved the tread edge back over 2".

<a href="http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/reelamin/media/REAR%20SPACE_zpsiyd71rfw.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u494/reelamin/REAR%20SPACE_zpsiyd71rfw.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo REAR SPACE_zpsiyd71rfw.jpg"/></a>

<a href="http://s1070.photobucket.com/user/reelamin/media/REAR%20SET%20BACK%20SPACE_zpshekzt11g.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i1070.photobucket.com/albums/u494/reelamin/REAR%20SET%20BACK%20SPACE_zpshekzt11g.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo REAR SET BACK SPACE_zpshekzt11g.jpg"/></a>



I still do not have enough clearance for the chains from the front splash apron and the rear/running board area. All I have for now as my body lift has not

I know you had to space your tire out to make room for the chains between the knuckle, but it does have a big impact on how much the tire moves fore/aft in your wheel opening.
IDK how much clearance you have to spare, but I've seen a company called "BORA" that makes spacers for our rigs as small as .75". I understand you don't want to swap out the spacers you just put on, but that would probably give you back even more clearance than a 1" body lift would give you.

 

[huvgti]

Adding wheel spacers cause your scrub radius to increase, which causes less clearance to the valance and running board/flare. Gained clearance between UCA/knuckle, but compromised clearance fore/aft of wheel opening.

I know I still owe you measurements, I'm working on it, just get stuck at work everyday then it's really dark out.

I have to agree with the above. I know you need the spacer to make room relative to the tire/upright, but pushing the wheel out from the hub definitely reduces clearance to the front bumper / pinch weld. I'm going to have to modify both due to the backspacing on my wheels having a similar effect to the spacer.

 

[reelamin]

You're lifting to gain tire chain clearance, correct? And your closest points are at the bumper valance, and at the back of flare/front of running board- correct?


I appreciate the input a lot and please keep it coming. It is hard to explain on a forum. I need clearance and a new suspension and seeing if I can avoid changing the running board/splash apron. If I'm doing a suspension I might as well add a little lift and improve the ride. I don't want a lift that increases my chances of parts breaking, and requires a lot of extra modifications and other adjustments. I have been checking my measurements and I gained in all but two areas with the spacers. Yes those areas probably will require some body/parts modifications but I will do that last.

Just a compilation of things I'm doing to get the results I want with the needed suspension replacement. Sure I could have easily used other spacers, pulled out the sawsall, grabbed the hammer, removed/replaced running board ends and factory rear mud flaps....wallah clearance.

UPS showed up today but not my shocks just the airbags. So I threw in an antennae switch while I'm bored.

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Actually, I was saying you would be LESS likely to have to hammer/sawsall and remove running boards/mud flaps with smaller spacers. You won't find too much info about scrub radius on this forum, and many guys even think spacers HELP fit bigger tires!
Aright, well do your thing [emoji1360]
Just wanted to make sure you had good info on clearance and spacers!
Looking forward to hearing how you like the new setup

 

[Tyler James Inc]

Just to add to your confusion- my '99 tall springs put me at 21.5" WITH a small top plate spacer that is supposed to give 1/2" lift.
My '99 tall springs should be at 21" even(with no spacer).
If it matters to you, that's with 3.75" rear coils. The higher rear will shift the weight forward just a hair, I would think.