A lesson in how to handle a DUI checkpoint

[RunninInGA]

RunninInGA,

This is a little bit off topic. You had intended this discussion to focus on the erosion and or exercise of our rights as guaranteed to us as part of our American citizenship. :

Thanks for checking back in. I knew you couldnt stay away! I believe this is well on topic. This man is exercising his right of free speech as well as protecting the rights of the protestors' free speech isn't he? My question remains, are his actions honorable or is he out of line in exercising his rights in this manner?

Further, do these protestors not have the right to redress their government with grievances?

 

[illzoni]

^Some of the responses here and the demeanor and statements of the officers in that video reinforce that the establishment wants its citizens to fear and succumb to the demands of LEO without question and that we are programmed to think as such.

Exactly.

Too many people believe you must be a criminal or a jerk if you don't respond to police in the expected way.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

Thanks for checking back in. I knew you couldnt stay away! I believe this is well on topic. This man is exercising his right of free speech as well as protecting the rights of the protestors' free speech isn't he? My question remains, are his actions honorable or is he out of line in exercising his rights in this manner?

Further, do these protestors not have the right to redress their government with grievances?

Semantics, semantics. Start a topic about DUI checkpoints (it's in the title after all).... and end up talking about all kinds of random situations because they can also be evaluated for the degree to which our rights were eroded/excercised in said situations. Off topic at it's FINEST!

How about this one?

The Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad! (2/10) Movie CLIP - Student Driver (1988) HD - YouTube

By commandeering the driving school vehicle, has the officer (Leslie Neilson) violated the 5th ammendment rights of the owner? Were our rights as a society measurably eroded? What can the owner of the vehicle do to effectively excercise his rights? What does media like this say about US citizens being mentally programmed to accept such a violation of our rights in a police emergency?

5th amendment, for reference:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use without just compensation.

 

[RunninInGA]

^it would appear as though I did hurt your feelings after all. I underestimated your frailty, BFAD.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

What you did was compel me to stay up late the other night, when I had to be at work at 530 the next morning, typing up a well thought out response that containted what I thought were some good points/ideas that were relevant to your thread.

Then you skipped right over the response without the consideration of a well thought out response on your part, but merely a dismissal as irrelevant.

Then you went off topic in the same manner you accused me of doing.

So I had to give you a hard time about it. Now you're coming back with what equates to a passive agressive insult. Perhaps I have overestimated your intellect.

If you are as intelligent as you have so far appeared, you would realize that there is a difference between having ones feelings hurt, and being mildly annoyed.

 

[Thai]

Thanks for checking back in. I knew you couldnt stay away! I believe this is well on topic. This man is exercising his right of free speech as well as protecting the rights of the protestors' free speech isn't he? My question remains, are his actions honorable or is he out of line in exercising his rights in this manner?

Further, do these protestors not have the right to redress their government with grievances?

Didn't we already have another thread about these protestors?? Link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/99768-occupy-wall-street.html

You know...i understand if a cop stops you for no reason or harrass you, then yeah, sure go into your spill about your rights and amendments and so on.

BUT, please do not go out of your way to SHOW your rights just so that you will be on Youtube or TV or simply showoff that you can..........all the while wasting time of other folks who don't want to wait for your a$$ to rant!

Actually, i find folks like RunninInGA (as an example) to be a lot more annoying than the cops who stop me at checkpoints!!! And yeah, i am a card-carrying NRA member who is Republican. Like i wrote in the past, when a cop stops me for no reason, i automatically show my license and conceal carry license. Not everything is a pissing contest! Why would i want to waste time? And why would i ever want a cop to be pissed at me in a tense situation??!! So that i can be the next Rodney King?? Sorry, my time is valuable...and i rather spend it either making money (at work) or playing with the kids at home!! I will stand for my rights when i go to the voting booth.

 

[broncosi]

Like i wrote in the past, when a cop stops me for no reason, i automatically show my license and conceal carry license. Not everything is a pissing contest! Why would i want to waste time? And why would i ever want a cop to be pissed at me in a tense situation??!! So that i can be the next Rodney King?? Sorry, my time is valuable...and i rather spend it either making money (at work) or playing with the kids at home!! I will stand for my rights when i go to the voting booth.

I completely agree to an extent. I consent to a search one time. I figured what the heck, I have nothing to hide. It took an hour. They called a dog out there. I was late to work. I see why people want to exercise their rights, but do it tastefully. Respect towards the police goes a long ways. Other than that, don't do things you aren't supposed to.

 

[RunninInGA]

What you did was compel me to stay up late the other night, when I had to be at work at 530 the next morning, typing up a well thought out response that containted what I thought were some good points/ideas that were relevant to your thread.

Then you skipped right over the response without the consideration of a well thought out response on your part, but merely a dismissal as irrelevant.

Then you went off topic in the same manner you accused me of doing.

So I had to give you a hard time about it. Now you're coming back with what equates to a passive agressive insult. Perhaps I have overestimated your intellect.

If you are as intelligent as you have so far appeared, you would realize that there is a difference between having ones feelings hurt, and being mildly annoyed.

You are correct, I did overlook your hypothetical scenario and I apologize you stayed up later than you might otherwise on my account. I agree with everything you said and the feelings of annoyance due to the quasi search, however in that scenario, your actions would have been appropriate. It's not as if you can physically kick them off your property any more than the gentleman in the video could have physically avoided the LEOs pulling him out of his car. That said, before the situation escalates to that level and physical harm is caused, compliance, at least for the time being is most likely the only educated option and then you resolve to assess the situation with legal representation after the fact.

Didn't we already have another thread about these protestors?? Link: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/off-topic/99768-occupy-wall-street.html

You know...i understand if a cop stops you for no reason or harrass you, then yeah, sure go into your spill about your rights and amendments and so on.

BUT, please do not go out of your way to SHOW your rights just so that you will be on Youtube or TV or simply showoff that you can..........all the while wasting time of other folks who don't want to wait for your a$$ to rant!

Actually, i find folks like RunninInGA (as an example) to be a lot more annoying than the cops who stop me at checkpoints!!! And yeah, i am a card-carrying NRA member who is Republican. Like i wrote in the past, when a cop stops me for no reason, i automatically show my license and conceal carry license. Not everything is a pissing contest! Why would i want to waste time? And why would i ever want a cop to be pissed at me in a tense situation??!! So that i can be the next Rodney King?? Sorry, my time is valuable...and i rather spend it either making money (at work) or playing with the kids at home!! I will stand for my rights when i go to the voting booth.

I stand by my previous statement that the video was less than 2 minutes. Had the gentleman complied, additional questions would surely have ensued, and he would have still been there for at least 2 minutes. Had you been behind, you'd have no idea whether or not any rights were exercised or violated in this particular scenario.

Here's more fuel to your fire of annoyance as it relates to RunninInGA: I never hand over my CCW permit when stopped by LEO, however I am not required by law to do so either.

 

[Thai]

Here's more fuel to your fire of annoyance as it relates to RunninInGA: I never hand over my CCW permit when stopped by LEO.

No annoyance at all...what you do with your private time in front of LEO is your business....

And being friends with cops in my hospital, it is always a tense situation out there when a cop stops an unknown. For ME, why would i want to add to this situation? When a cop pulls up your name, he/she will see that you have CC permit...it just adds to a sense of unsure/unknown for the cop in a tense situation. And if i show my CC permit, he/she knows (at least in TX) that i am a good-standing citizen whose background has been thoroughly checked...so, the tense situation just got a little bit better. (And yeah, this is confirmed by cops off the record.)

 

[93toy]

You're changing the world RunningInGa!! Woo hoo!

 

[RunninInGA]

You're changing the world RunningInGa!! Woo hoo!

Thank you for your service. I understand you guys, for the most part, are just doing your jobs. Like I've said throughout this thread, I have MANY friends that are LEO - friends I've had for years. My cousin just graduated from the academy and is serving now in Alabama (albeit on his probationary period).

I'm not trying to change the world by myself. I'm simply trying to get people to think about the larger picture and to spurn discussion. There are thoughts and opinions on both sides of the equation. My opinions are ever-changing and are a product of my particular experiences and overall day-to-day environment. I suspect there was sarcasm in your post, however I truly appreciate LEOs on a grand scale, but I do not stand by the philosophy that you as a LEO should always be followed to the T and never questioned - you are human just as I and we make mistakes by nature. Your training minimizes this somewhat, but you cannot be perfect any more than I can.

 

[93toy]

- you are human just as I and we make mistakes by nature. Your training minimizes this somewhat, but you cannot be perfect any more than I can.

I'm a little confused. Have you ever read a thread where I have implied anything like this? I couldn't agree with this statement more, but I'm not sure how my behavior provoked the statement. Or are you just casting a net over ALL law enforcement?

 

[Thai]

Thank you for your service. I understand you guys, for the most part, are just doing your jobs. Like I've said throughout this thread, I have MANY friends that are LEO - friends I've had for years. My cousin just graduated from the academy and is serving now in Alabama (albeit on his probationary period).

Then you SHOULD understand how tough the job is!! It is not easy to approach an individual that you know nothing about at night from a distance. Why make yourself an a$$ just to prove a point in an already tense situation?? Would you be as understanding if you were the cop approaching an unknown suspect and the suspect start to act like an idiot? Put yourself in THEIR shoes just for one minute....

 

[RunninInGA]

I'm a little confused. Have you ever read a thread where I have implied anything like this? I couldn't agree with this statement more, but I'm not sure how my behavior provoked the statement. Or are you just casting a net over ALL law enforcement?

Oh no - I have no specific examples of you making mistakes at all and was not trying to imply that you have where I am concerned. I suppose I was casting a net, albeit from my experience with discussing the various courses my friends and family have taken while in the military and out of in advancing their law enforcement careers. My apologies if I have offended you by my general statement. However it is widely known that humans make mistakes by nature.

Then you SHOULD understand how tough the job is!! It is not easy to approach an individual that you know nothing about at night from a distance. Why make yourself an a$$ just to prove a point in an already tense situation?? Would you be as understanding if you were the cop approaching an unknown suspect and the suspect start to act like an idiot? Put yourself in THEIR shoes just for one minute....

I absolutely understand how tough the job is - as much as you or I can without actually doing that job. And you can't rightfully tell me LEOs were not aware of the potential liabilities when they decided to be an LEO. I can't take the sight of puke and piss and sh1t - a vast majority of my family are in the medical field, but I knew I could not follow in those footsteps, therefore I chose a different career to avoid these things. But c'mon now Thai - do you implicitly follow the directions of all authority just because they are in authority? Are they not susceptible to the same flaws as everyone else? Ben Franklin (remember him?) stated and I quote "It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority." You're making this more about your inconvenience - but as I've already stated whether or not the gentleman in the video complied, you would have not been any more or less inconvenienced had you been in line behind this man. Widen your view a little - take the DUI checkpoint out of the equation and consider this: possee comitatus has been repealed, meaning the military can now more easily be used to enforce domestic laws. You can also now be detained by the passage of the ndaa without being told the offenses you're being accused of, legal representation or the right to be tried by a court, and for an undetermined amount of time. Congress recently passed legislation requiring the faa to allocate a larger portion of the DOMESTIC airspace to be utilized by un-manned drones. An argument could be made that as long as you are a law-abiding citizen, you have nothing to worry about and I agree wholeheartedly, however what happens when those laws are radically changed or dishonestly enforced - or those who get to make the decision whether or not you are a law abiding citizen change drastically? Remember, it used to be that we were innocent until proven guilty and still remains that way in certain areas of the country I'm sure. However in larger, more populated areas, you are guilty until you can prove yourself innocent. Intent to break the law is no longer required to prosecute.

Perhaps its time you and I agree to simply disagree on this particular subject as I am steadfast in my personal beliefs and opinions and you appear to be as well, which I cannot and will not hold against you in any way.

 

[Thai]

Yeah, you should show off your attitude the next time a cop stops you...and video tape it for us!

There is a place and time for everything...at a traffic stop esp at night is NOT one of those times! You want to protest? Go to his/her supervisor and present your case. Simple. Safe.

 

[RunninInGA]

Yeah, you should show off your attitude the next time a cop stops you...and video tape it for us!

There is a place and time for everything...at a traffic stop esp at night is NOT one of those times! You want to protest? Go to his/her supervisor and present your case. Simple. Safe.

You're missing where I posted the statement below. Post #13 on page 1, right above your first post here I believe. Giving up your rights at any time, should not be acceptable whether it be morning, day, night, or February. When was the last time you were in Washington DC? Answering this question positively, even with a BAC of 0.0 will get you arrested every time. doesn't matter that by the law you weren't impaired, your butt will be in handcuffs and in the backseat of officer barbradys cruiser regardless.

Lastly, if I were required to obtain your opinion before I protested or took any action for that matter, would I still be a free man?

Better have a camera handy - I bet it played a larger role than any of us realize.

In my opinion, this serves the purpose of education and reminding us that we as citizens have certain rights guaranteed to us by the constitution. I can't say I would do what this guy did either, in fact I would most likely say no in hopes of being let go and on my merry way. We are taught to trust our government implicitly - however read my signature and you'll understand I'm going through a paradigm shift in my way of thinking personally.

 

[Thai]

So, DC cops don't check blood alcohol level and will arrest you even if you are not impaired and answered the questions politely and straightforward? Prove it.

Obtain my permission?? I don't get it. So, you are not a free man if you went to the cop's supervisor??

 

[RunninInGA]

So, DC cops don't check blood alcohol level and will arrest you even if you are not impaired and answered the questions politely and straightforward? Prove it.

Obtain my permission?? I don't get it. So, you are not a free man if you went to the cop's supervisor??

I didn't say they don't check BAC, please don't put words in my mouth. Here's 2 sources for you to ponder.

Point #2:
http://http://mpdc.dc.gov/mpdc/cwp/view,a,1240,q,547837,mpdcNav_GID,1552,mpdcNav,%7C.asp

This one involves an attorney:
http://http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/Drivingissues/1133276608.html

Thai, I've already suggested you and i should probably agree to disagree. It seems we are beating this horse into the dirt and neither of us is willing to relent to the other. Shall we take this to PMs instead?

 

[Thai]

So, are you a man who talks a lot yet too scared to take action?

 

[RunninInGA]

So, are you a man who talks a lot yet too scared to take action?

To what are you referring? And please watch the tone of your responses - I've shown you nothing but courtesy and respect.