Advice Needed - Rust, considering ditching 4R

[thejuice]

Help, I need advice!

I have a 2012 Limited with about 130k in the Boston area. I maintained it religiously hoping to take it well into 200k territory, but I never thought to coat the underside. In just the last 2 years I had the following rust related issues:

• 3 frozen calipers.. one destroyed my rim (cosmetically) when the piston froze stuck out during a long road trip, wore the pad down and caused metal/metal debris to land on the rim giving me a nice molten-sand blast finish
• Every heat shield rusted through and was replaced or fixed with washers
• Most of the heat shield posts are rust icicles and needed replacing
• Rusted through skid plate & splash shield
• Transmission switch (range sensor switch) froze/rusted, rusted solid to transmission

I can see that I still have many more rust-related projects ahead of me, but the frame rust concerns me.

Many of the welds are flaking and I don't have a good feel for what's safe. Is it time for me to trade it in?

Between parts and my time (which is free I guess) the repair costs have been adding up lately. I know I have a pricey xreas repair ahead, and likely an AC repair. I got a quote for $14k to trade it in, is it time to part ways? Or are my rust concerns stupid, and it'll drive to 300k+ like all the 3rd/4th gens have?


Thanks in advanced!

 

[WindyCity4Runner]

After 8 years and 130k miles, I think $14k is not a bad trade in. I would trade-in.

For your next ride, check out WoolWax. It's a thicker, longer lasting version of Fluid Film and will help prevent that from happening.

 

[CavPro]

What the NE states do to melt the snow should be criminal. Buying nice cars to drive year round is foolish.

 

[ravens_wood]

What the NE states do to melt the snow should be criminal. Buying nice cars to drive year round is foolish.

Salting roads is criminal?

 

[Photogr]

I grew up in a Boston suburb and my first new car was a 85 Prelude that came with an electronic rust prohibiter. I never understood the science behind it, but unlike coatings (which were used exclusively before this and worked well until they were chipped away by rocks, salt and road debris) the device attached to the frame in a few locations and provided a trickle charge of electricity. I owned that car for 8 years and about 160K miles and never once had any rust. When I bought my next car a 92 Accord, the device wasn't an option so I moved my old one to that car and it worked on it for another 10 years till I sold it. We were in Colorado by then, so I didn't care about relocating it again. I've read about these devices being controversial and there are many that believe them not to work but my experience was nothing short of miraculous. Anyone that grew up in the northeast is familiar with how harsh the climate is to cars and I'm old enough to recall when the metal used on car bodies was way more substantial. Until I came across this device, every car I saw was either new or had body rot in some form or another. Something to consider no matter what you're next vehicle is.

 

[thejuice]

I grew up in a Boston suburb and my first new car was a 85 Prelude that came with an electronic rust prohibiter...

Likewise, growing up we had '92 (?) Buick with an electronic rust inhibitor and it seemed work well.

For your next ride, check out WoolWax. It's a thicker, longer lasting version of Fluid Film and will help prevent that from happening.

After this experience, it I think I'm going to double up on Woolwax + electronic inhibitor on the next vehicle.

 

[SlickTRD]

take the 14 and run. new ride - woolwax or fluid film professionally sprayed every fall. professionals know where to spray and have all the attachments to get inside the frame.

 

[02SE]

I drove my 3rd gen for 22 years on salt encrusted roads all winter, trips to the Salt Flats in summer, and numerous muddy wheeling trips.

My frame and undercarriage were rust free when I recently sold it for a premium.

I knew from my past in consumer automotive repair, that ANY vehicle can rot away if neglected in a highly corrosive environment.

The manufacturers know this too, which is why they mention in the owners manual the importance of cleaning the vehicle as often as necessary when operated in a highly corrosive environment.

My advice: I'd take the 14k, and make the (sometimes considerable) effort to keep the vehicle (particularly the undercarriage) clean on a new vehicle. Or you can just let the new one rust too, and replace it sooner than would otherwise be necessary if it weren't neglected. Some people do the latter, sort of as the cost of doing business, when they don't wish to make the effort to keep their vehicle clean.

 

[northcoast]

I also say trade it in. Are you going for another 4R?

 

[msp]

Help, I need advice!

I have a 2012 Limited with about 130k in the Boston area. I maintained it religiously hoping to take it well into 200k territory, but I never thought to coat the underside. In just the last 2 years I had the following rust related issues:

• 3 frozen calipers.. one destroyed my rim (cosmetically) when the piston froze stuck out during a long road trip, wore the pad down and caused metal/metal debris to land on the rim giving me a nice molten-sand blast finish
• Every heat shield rusted through and was replaced or fixed with washers
• Most of the heat shield posts are rust icicles and needed replacing
• Rusted through skid plate & splash shield
• Transmission switch (range sensor switch) froze/rusted, rusted solid to transmission

I can see that I still have many more rust-related projects ahead of me, but the frame rust concerns me.

Many of the welds are flaking and I don't have a good feel for what's safe. Is it time for me to trade it in?

Between parts and my time (which is free I guess) the repair costs have been adding up lately. I know I have a pricey xreas repair ahead, and likely an AC repair. I got a quote for $14k to trade it in, is it time to part ways? Or are my rust concerns stupid, and it'll drive to 300k+ like all the 3rd/4th gens have?


Thanks in advanced!

Curious. Do you park in a heated garage or outside in the winter?

 

[thejuice]

I drove my 3rd gen for 22 years on salt encrusted roads all winter, trips to the Salt Flats in summer, and numerous muddy wheeling trips.

My frame and undercarriage were rust free when I recently sold it for a premium.

I knew from my past in consumer automotive repair, that ANY vehicle can rot away if neglected in a highly corrosive environment.

The manufacturers know this too, which is why they mention in the owners manual the importance of cleaning the vehicle as often as necessary when operated in a highly corrosive environment.

My advice: I'd take the 14k, and make the (sometimes considerable) effort to keep the vehicle (particularly the undercarriage) clean on a new vehicle. Or you can just let the new one rust too, and replace it sooner than would otherwise be necessary if it weren't neglected. Some people do the latter, sort of as the cost of doing business, when they don't wish to make the effort to keep their vehicle clean.

In my defense, I didn't neglect the vehicle. I washed the vehicle 1-2 times a month. Clay bar and wax 2-3 times a year. Every spring I hosed the undercarriage thoroughly, and in the winter I periodically took it to a car wash with the undercarriage wash. I really worked hard to keep it looking great since I wanted to own it for a long time (see photo from last fall), so I'm kind of butt hurt by the situation.

When I bought the 4R I didn't really believe in coating the undercarriage because, in my mind, you would have to pull every component from the underside and thoroughly coat 100% of the surface. I figured that after the half dozen recalls between '95-'00 and '05-'10, Toyota would have addressed rust-proofing in the factory. I'm sure the salesman told me the same thing

I also say trade it in. Are you going for another 4R?

Honestly, I'm not sure, I'm discouraged by the brand right now. If I do, I don't think I'd plan to own for long term.

Curious. Do you park in a heated garage or outside in the winter?

Garage at work and garage at home about 50% of the time.

 

[northcoast]

I've fluid-filmed mine annually - it's a 2016 with 116k miles and although I'm not in as much salt as you, it's still here, and I don't have any frame rust. Point is, you don't have to be discouraged by the brand... just maybe a little more proactive because Toyota truck frames don't have a stellar history.

 

[offshorebear]

I kept my 04 until places started to refuse to work on due to rust. That was a bad financial decision but I loved the V8.

5th gens I'm just not as in love with, so I would trade in often if I lived in the salt belt.

 

[msp]

In my defense, I didn't neglect the vehicle. I washed the vehicle 1-2 times a month. Clay bar and wax 2-3 times a year. Every spring I hosed the undercarriage thoroughly, and in the winter I periodically took it to a car wash with the undercarriage wash. I really worked hard to keep it looking great since I wanted to own it for a long time (see photo from last fall), so I'm kind of butt hurt by the situation.

When I bought the 4R I didn't really believe in coating the undercarriage because, in my mind, you would have to pull every component from the underside and thoroughly coat 100% of the surface. I figured that after the half dozen recalls between '95-'00 and '05-'10, Toyota would have addressed rust-proofing in the factory. I'm sure the salesman told me the same thing



Honestly, I'm not sure, I'm discouraged by the brand right now. If I do, I don't think I'd plan to own for long term.

Garage at work and garage at home about 50% of the time.

Thanks. I park in an unheated garage or outside in the winter. Never have had a problem on new vehicles. Some surface rust, sure, but nothing like your pictures.

 

[02SE]

In my defense, I didn't neglect the vehicle. I washed the vehicle 1-2 times a month. Clay bar and wax 2-3 times a year. Every spring I hosed the undercarriage thoroughly, and in the winter I periodically took it to a car wash with the undercarriage wash. I really worked hard to keep it looking great since I wanted to own it for a long time (see photo from last fall), so I'm kind of butt hurt by the situation.

I'm not trying to pick on you. Really.

The result speaks for itself. Whatever you did wasn't adequate. I'm truly sorry that's the case.

I know in the middle of winter I'll be out washing the undercarriage as often as needed. That could be every day in below freezing temps. It is absolutely a pain. But keeping the salt off the undercarriage especially is worth the effort to me.

With my previous 3rd gen, my neighbor would make fun of me being out in the bitter cold washing salt off my 4Runner. He had a new Mercury Mountaineer that he bought the same month as I bought my 3rd gen. I just told him we'll see which one lasts.

At 10 years old his neglected Mountaineer was a rusted out hulk. He eventually got rid of it during the Cash-for-clunkers debacle. 10 years later my old 4Runner was still rust free when I sold it.

I'd use this as a lesson in what is necessary when living in the rust belt. Or move, which is what I'm considering.

 

[Maingear]

100 years ago Henry Ford figured out his cars required protection on the battery terminals to prevent corrosion. Toyota leaves that up to the dealership. why is this even an issue for states that salt roads? State attorney generals office should be taking the case for you.

If you went off road and you knocked the protection off, thats on you.

There were Tacomas that had frame rust issues that lead to a recall, but Toyota is going to build them in Mexico. I have a stainless american made cybertruck on order.

 

[85GT-79FJ40]

The stuff they use on the roads now is far more effective at melting snow and ice but it's SO much worse for our vehicles. My 11 had really low miles (35k) when I bought it 2 years ago. But it's from Boston. It's got a little surface rust underneath in places. I have fluid filmed the crap out of it each fall and it hasn't got any worse. I'm certainly not going to strip it down and powder coat it like we do on most car/truck frames on vehicles we restore at work but preventative maintenance does go a long way. FWIW any vehicle can rust like the OP's did. In fact parking if the garage the OP parked in was heated it actually makes it worse. ice and snow melt and get into even more places.

 

[02SE]

100 years ago Henry Ford figured out his cars required protection on the battery terminals to prevent corrosion. Toyota leaves that up to the dealership. why is this even an issue for states that salt roads? State attorney generals office should be taking the case for you.

If you went off road and you knocked the protection off, thats on you.

There were Tacomas that had frame rust issues that lead to a recall, but Toyota is going to build them in Mexico. I have a stainless american made cybertruck on order.

Any make or model can rust or corrode, if it is sufficiently neglected in a highly corrosive environment.

The Tacoma, Tundra, and Sequoia frames that were more prone to rust, were improperly made In America by Dana Corp. Now Toyota should have done a better job verifying that Dana Corp was making the frames to spec. Dana Corp should have made the frames to spec, and shouldn't have cut corners.

Ultimately Dana Corp had to pay a 25 million dollar judgement for the improperly made frames, and Toyota replaced a bunch of frames.

Even when a steel frame is made properly with anti-rust treatments, if they are sufficiently neglected long enough in a highly corrosive environment, it'll have issues.

I doubt the "Stainless steel" cyber truck is entirely made of stainless steel. If it has regular painted or coated steel, AND it's sufficiently neglected in a highly corrosive environment, it will have rust issues too. Also, stainless steel can corrode.

 

[kenwilliams0803]

You can't just wash the undercarriage thoroughly when it's warm out in the spring. If it drives in salt, it needs constant attention.

My hose freezes in the winter so I let the car wash do an "undercarriage wash" on it and I make sure to go real slow over the sprayers every time. Other than that, if we get a random 50* couple of days anywhere in the dead of winter, you better believe I'll have the hose out.

If it were like a show type of vehicle, it would sit in the garage any time there's a hint of salt on the roads and only ever get washed by me personally. It's not. So I do what I can when my hose is frozen.

8 years old and 140k miles on mine that travels all through NE every winter. It looks way better than that underneath. Either replace any replaceable rusted parts or trade it. Some of that looks bad.

 

[thejuice]

I'm not trying to pick on you. Really.

The result speaks for itself. Whatever you did wasn't adequate. I'm truly sorry that's the case.

I hear you, and I didn’t take anything you said personally.

To argue the counter point though, what else could I have done? Taken it in for yearly treatments? Added an aftermarket electronic rust preventer? Washed it after every drive? Going back in time to when I was buying, if I had known my options were 1) sell at <130k miles because of rust, or 2) do all of the above rust steps, then I probably wouldn’t have bought it.

A big factor in the decision making process for me was that the 4R was supposed to be a low-headache, long-term vehicle, and truthfully I still think that’s the case when speaking about the motor/tranny or electronics. At the same time, I think it’s unreasonable to wash a car after every drive in the snow, or even to take it in for yearly rust treatments. I say that because I owned other brands that held up much better, for example my e30 bmw had 260k miles on it and was 18 years old when I sold it. Clearly whatever I did to that vehicle wasn’t neglecting - and yet I took BETTER care of the 4R!