Aftermarket locking diff for 5th gen?

[Ross]

So, Trxus MTs are good on ice?? Better than a winter tire? :wow: I stand corrected that it was your claim because Trxus would not be so bold to make those claims!

Short of studs you aren't getting traction on ice. If the conditions where as such given the option between winches and locker, I would still go with a winch.

I don't think a snow or ice tire would fit the OPs need. They probably wouldn't be a good choice for heading down to the old fishing hole. You need to look at the bigger picture not some what if? Lockers can get your through but they can also get your further in and stuck worse.
If you desire is to get further down the trail or over rougher trails get lockers. If you want to get unstuck, get a winch.

 

[Ross]

ARB is about $1500-2000 total cost if you let someone else install it.

How much for aftermarket bumper, lift, and winch total (including install cost)??

Posted elsewhere in this forum is a pretty slick set up for a hidden receiver. It attaches to the front of your vehicle. You can mount the winch when you head down the trail or leave it in the garage when you don't need it.

Many people, me included, aren't a fan of this type of setup. The concern is they do not provide the structural strength need for doing heavy pulls. It may be paranoia, I have never seen any evidence of this type of setup failing.

Don’t know what to recommend when it comes to a good bumper mount.

You can find a winch for $300 on up. As far as a good winch? I have had a Warn HS9500i for over a decade and it has served me well. It has seen allot of action.

There are cheaper winches and they get mixed reviews. If money is an issue I would rather buy a higher end used winch then a new lower end one. You want a winch rated between 1.5Xs and 2.0Xs the weight of you vehicle. When you look for a winch you have to figure what the weight of you 4Runner will be loaded with whatever you will be hauling along with you.

 

[Thai]

Many people, me included, aren't a fan of this type of setup.

x2. Thus, financially, a winch is almost never cheaper than a rear locker.

 

[Thai]

Short of studs you aren't getting traction on ice. If the conditions where as such given the option between winches and locker, I would still go with a winch.

I don't think a snow or ice tire would fit the OPs need. They probably wouldn't be a good choice for heading down to the old fishing hole. You need to look at the bigger picture not some what if? Lockers can get your through but they can also get your further in and stuck worse.
If you desire is to get further down the trail or over rougher trails get lockers. If you want to get unstuck, get a winch.

Understandable. For me, the security of a locker, even over mild-moderate terrain, is a good thing. The smoother traction that results is worth it. Don't get me wrong, ATRAC is a very good compromise. But, if the option for a rear locker is available, then i would jump for it. A locker in the wild is just more "positive" in the way it works. ATRAC is great for all-weather stuff. When i was off-roading, i would always lock my center and rear lockers, even over mild terrain (aka beginning of a trail for example). Did i really need to? No. Did it lead me into a mud pit because of my overconfidence in it? Not always ( ). But, a locker provides smooth forward progression without losing momentum because you do not have to wait for the computer to detect enough wheel slippage to start transferring torque to the other wheel.

And the fact that KC already has ATRAC on his 4runner, this selectable locker is icing on the cake!

 

[Ross]

Understandable. For me, the security of a locker, even over mild-moderate terrain, is a good thing. The smoother traction that results is worth it. Don't get me wrong, ATRAC is a very good compromise. But, if the option for a rear locker is available, then i would jump for it. A locker in the wild is just more "positive" in the way it works. ATRAC is great for all-weather stuff. When i was off-roading, i would always lock my center and rear lockers, even over mild terrain (aka beginning of a trail for example). Did i really need to? No. Did it lead me into a mud pit because of my overconfidence in it? Not always ( ). But, a locker provides smooth forward progression without losing momentum because you do not have to wait for the computer to detect enough wheel slippage to start transferring torque to the other wheel.

And the fact that KC already has ATRAC on his 4runner, this locker is icing on the cake!

Your comment “locker is "preventive" while ATRAC is "reactive" “says it all. But until you get bigger tires and more clearance you always run the risk of getting hung up, lockers won't always help here, a winch probably can. A buddy with another winch is even better.

All too often people get bit by the off-road bug and find themselves going bigger and bigger. Buying an ARB and having it installed is big dollars. If you find yourself going with bigger tires on down the line you may want to re-gear. Back into the diff you go and you may possible need a different carrier for a higher ratio, money down the drain. A good winch setup will last decades with no need for an upgrade, regardless of how you build, or don’t build, your vehicle. To me it seems to be a better early on modification.

 

[Koz]

The locker is only better when one wheel has traction. If both wheels have low traction the locker is not that effective. It is nice to have both (locker/ATRAC). The locker can only be used when there is low traction (not on pavement, unless only going in a strait line), where ATRAC can be used all the time. Most likely you will not need a locker.

Koz

 

[Thai]

The locker is only better when one wheel has traction. If both wheels have low traction the locker is not that effective.
Koz

And ATRAC is different??

 

[Thai]

Your comment “locker is "preventive" while ATRAC is "reactive" “says it all. But until you get bigger tires and more clearance you always run the risk of getting hung up, lockers won't always help here, a winch probably can. A buddy with another winch is even better.

All too often people get bit by the off-road bug and find themselves going bigger and bigger. Buying an ARB and having it installed is big dollars. If you find yourself going with bigger tires on down the line you may want to re-gear. Back into the diff you go and you may possible need a different carrier for a higher ratio, money down the drain. A good winch setup will last decades with no need for an upgrade, regardless of how you build, or don’t build, your vehicle. To me it seems to be a better early on modification.

KC is asking about locker, not winch...thus, my response to his specific question. Yeah, a winch is nice too, but does take quite a bit of work and $$$$. I am assuming that KC is not after an off-road monster truck that needs 37" tires and re-gearing.

And in regards to locker vs. ATRAC, I stand behind my statement. Is ATRAC not reactive?

 

[Ross]

And ATRAC is different??

With the locker if both wheels lack traction they both spin and if it is slick enough it can move you sideways. The traction control in the 4 runner grabs and releases back and forth and seems to move you forward better. It is odd feeling and kind of rough but seems to work.

The downside is if you are in mud and want to clean out your treads it won’t let you spin the tires enough to clean them out.

 

[Koz]

And ATRAC is different??

Yes, you will lose control/stability with a locker (when there is low traction on both wheels) where ATRAC will be more controlled.

Koz

 

[Ross]

KC is asking about locker, not winch...thus, my response to his specific question. Yeah, a winch is nice too, but does take quite a bit of work and $$$$. I am assuming that KC is not after an off-road monster truck that needs 37" tires and re-gearing.

And in regards to locker vs. ATRAC, I stand behind my statement. Is ATRAC not reactive?

I don't think a locker would be a good choice here. I am assuming he is heading down the trail with no other vehicle to assist him if he were to get stuck. A locker may help you get through the first mud hole. It may get you through second or third but if you keep going eventually you will get stuck, even with lockers. My winch has saved my butt more than once. My lockers have only gotten me in deeper, not to say didn’t have a blast getting there but having a winch has gotten me out.

 

[Thai]

With the locker if both wheels lack traction they both spin and if it is slick enough it can move you sideways. The traction control in the 4 runner grabs and releases back and forth and seems to move you forward better. It is odd feeling and kind of rough but seems to work.

The downside is if you are in mud and want to clean out your treads it won’t let you spin the tires enough to clean them out.

Don't forget about lost of momentum as ECU decides what to do....

 

[Thai]

Yes, you will lose control/stability with a locker (when there is low traction on both wheels) where ATRAC will be more controlled.

Koz

Big difference? I don't know. ATRAC is often too slow to really get forward movement with so little traction as you noted.

Don't forget that KC has ATRAC already on his 4runner...he is asking if a locker is worth it as an addition to his 4runner. When in rain or snow, ATRAC is good. However, when the pavement ends (aka off-roading), it is also where ATRAC is turned off (on my previous vehicle)...and on goes my locker(s).

 

[Ross]

Don't forget about lost of momentum as ECU decides what to do....

That crap pisses me off!

 

[Koz]

I'd rather have the Torsen out of them all!

Koz

 

[Thai]

I'd rather have the Torsen out of them all!

Koz

I think Torsen is not all that great in what you described. From what i have heard, if you have zero traction on one wheel, the Torsen is pretty much useless at powering the opposite wheel. I guess that it depends on whether you're on ice of just slick surfaces....

 

[Koz]

Don't forget about lost of momentum as ECU decides what to do....

The ECU works works very well with the VSC. I've had it kick in before the vehicle even got sideways. You are right about the ATRAC stopping the wheels when your stuck! Time to lock the center diff and blast out.

Koz

 

[Ross]

The Torsen 3 works great, it is the added abs and esp. the computer crap that screws it up. Having the ability to lock and unlock the center "diff" is great. It would be great if you could turn Toyota traction stuff off when you didn't want it, and having the ability to turn on and off lockers.

 

[Koz]

I think Torsen is not all that great in what you described. From what i have heard, if you have zero traction on one wheel, the Torsen is pretty much useless at powering the opposite wheel. I guess that it depends on whether you're on ice of just slick surfaces....

This is where the Torsen shines! When only one axle/wheel has zero traction torque is diverted to the other axle. Plus the ATRAC is still working. You heard wrong!


Koz

 

[Thai]

The ECU works works very well with the VSC. I've had it kick in before the vehicle even got sideways. You are right about the ATRAC stopping the wheels when your stuck! Time to lock the center diff and blast out.

Koz

VSC works well...love it...but that is not what we're talking about here. At slow speeds, ATRAC reacts at less than stellar time.

Although locking the center diff helps (via turning off VSC and engine dethrottling), ATRAC can be a hindrance off-road because it is a "reactive" system...and by the time that the ECU senses slippage, you have already lost momentum...or in the process of losing it. And with rapidly changing traction condition (off-road), ATRAC is sometimes one step behind real-time traction at that particular tire. And this is where a locker is better.