Aftermarket locking diff for 5th gen?
- Thread starter KCcarguy
- Start date
Koz
New member
Thai
Elite Member
Well, if KC install a rear locker, then it should be fully compatible with ATRAC. Because when he turns on the rear locker, it in essence turns OFF ATRAC in the rear axle. And thus, he can power out of a muddy situation (as long as the front axle isn't killing momentum too much).
Koz
New member
Very true but if I could only have one system I would choose the Torsen. The ideal setup would be having lockers (with limited slip) on all the diffs and being able to disengage the nannies at will.
Koz
I really don't know how well it would work together. I wouldn't consider a locker on my 4Runner because of this. I wouldn't build a newer runner for an off-road vehicle. If is great for casual light wheeling. Slightly larger tires, a winch and a minimal lift would be all I would do, if even that. It is not a Toyota bash, there is NO new vehicle I would choose to build up very big. I would love an older land cruiser of straight axle 4Runner. If I didn’t have so much into my jeep I would be looking for a straight axle 4Runner to build.
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I have a 1000 foot long gravel drive way. I had tried every combination of 2hi, 4hi, 4 lo, center locked and unlocked. I have tried it in the winter, on ice, snow, spring in mud and summer when it is hard packed. If I jump on the gas some Toyota traction contraption keeps me from getting very much tire spin.
Thai
Elite Member
ATRAC, be definition, works by detecting wheel speed differences b/w two wheels on the same axle. Well, with a locked locker, there is no speed differences b/w the two wheels. Thus, ATRAC would not know the difference.
What about the front end? How would it behave.
Even in my Jeep I did a winch before locking it. If getting unstuck is your priority get a winch. If getting further down the trail is the priority lock it.
Thai
Elite Member
yup, my old Mercedes G-wagen had the perfect setup! It has exactly what you wrote. It will even disengage ABS off-road!
You and I are on a different page! You're talking about a center differential...a Torsen unit. I (and Ross i think) are talking about the rear axle. However, my statement is correct. A Torsen unit will not work if one side of it has no traction. Therefore, if you sunk your front end of the 4runner or GX in deep mud (and NOT lock it), then you will see that you are stuck...the rear axle won't get any power...and the front axle will spin endlessly.
Thai
Elite Member
The front end will work as before. ATRAC will still control the front axle. This is all assuming that you lock the center diff, and thus disable stability control.
This is why in the past, i called this setup (rear locker + front ATRAC) to be near ideal for the casual off-roader because you get the capability of a locker in the rear (where it is most important most of the time) and the flexibility (aka steering control) of ATRAC in the front.
Thai
Elite Member
Rear locker is your solution...and better tires (if needed) of course.
Thai
Elite Member
The current Wrangler Rubicon has ATRAC and full set of lockers.
Koz
New member
I've locked the Torsen in the snow and sand and had no problem spinning all around. You have to put some gas on it but it will spin.
Koz
Attachments
Until you get stuck.
I have winched out allot of people with lockers.
Keep a good comfortable pair of boots, water and cash, for whomever you can find that can get down the trail to get you unstuck. Look for somebody with a winch. Then kick yourself in the ass and start saying if I only had a winch and some recovery gear I could get unstuck.
The cool thing with lockers is if you have a buddy in your car he can jump on the gas and you will be able to watch your tires spin in unison. A little bit of advice I learned the hard way: if you are stuck in mud and put it in reverse close your driver door before you hit the gas. If you are stuck and have lockers make sure you close drive and passenger doors for the same reason. And then kick yourself in your ass and say if I had a winch and a strap, (may need a pulley) I could hook to that tree and be out in a few minutes.
Another bit of advice: if you see a mud hole with tracks leading in but none coming out, stay away. Learned that one the hard way. I had lockers so what the hell, STUCK.
Quick Google search of stuck with lockers. Don’t know these people and I didn't witness the situation but he says he has Detroit’s in the rear (automatic vs. selectable locker). They may or may not be as effective as ARBs, but it was the winch that got them out:
Jeep stuck in the mud, winches out - Warn winch - YouTube
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Are you sure, this is from the rubicon jeep page:
Rock-Trac®
The Rock-Trac transfer case is the heart of Wrangler Rubicon's extreme rock crawling ability. Because of the 4:1 low-gear ratio, Rock-Trac's low crawl speed makes it easy to ascend or descend sharp inclines and to crawl over obstacles."
Jeep - 4x4 Basics - How Jeep 4x4 Systems Work - Rock-Trac - 4WD SUVs
This is all I get when I search for ATRAC on jeeps pages:
"There are 0 pages that reference ATRAC.
Sorry. We couldn't find what you were looking for.
Try checking the spelling of your search of searching one of the sites to the right."
Thai
Elite Member
Jeep Wrangler Rubicon has a version of ATRAC (remember, ATRAC is a Toyota thing). I am at work...and my computer won't let me get to Jeep site. But, Jeep Wrangler uses 4-wheel traction control (aka ATRAC in Toyota terms). I think that they call it "Brake Assist System" or something like that. And of course, it has the lockers.
Thai
Elite Member
I think that you missed my point.
brian2sun
Elite Member
Ian Johnson said recently on an episode of Xtreme 4x4 something to the extent of, "You can get a rental car through just about any trail with a winch". That sorta validates and invalidates the whole winch vs. lockers thing.
It validates it because once your really stuck, a winch is usually the only thing that will get you out. I've been stuck with both my ARBs locked more than once and had to rely on the winch to get me out. If you off road alone, a winch is an absolute necessity IMO - over lockers, lift, tires, or anything else. I personally don't go on hard trails without a buddy (and most of my wheelin buddies have winches) so I haven't felt the need to buy one yet. But, I don't like having to bother my friends to get winched out unless I absolutely have to. That's why I got lockers, because most of the time I can make it through by myself.
Ian's statement also kinda invalidates the winch vs. locker thing to because putting a winch on a rental car might make it possible to complete the Rubicon, but it doesn't make the rental car a capable off roader. An off roader is supposed to make it through under it's own power.
Ross, I hear what you're saying about a locker causing you to push it harder and farther, but that's true for regular 4x4 and even 2wd. Lots of people make it over that first obstacle and they're so impressed with their truck that they think they can do anything after that so they push it farther and end up getting stuck. But you can't blame that on having lockers, or 4wd, ATRAC or anything else.. The driver not knowing his or his truck's abilities and not knowing the trail is the problem. No one should be pushing any limits by themselves, especially on a trail they aren't familiar with. But if they do, I agree.. they better have a winch!
It validates it because once your really stuck, a winch is usually the only thing that will get you out. I've been stuck with both my ARBs locked more than once and had to rely on the winch to get me out. If you off road alone, a winch is an absolute necessity IMO - over lockers, lift, tires, or anything else. I personally don't go on hard trails without a buddy (and most of my wheelin buddies have winches) so I haven't felt the need to buy one yet. But, I don't like having to bother my friends to get winched out unless I absolutely have to. That's why I got lockers, because most of the time I can make it through by myself.
Ian's statement also kinda invalidates the winch vs. locker thing to because putting a winch on a rental car might make it possible to complete the Rubicon, but it doesn't make the rental car a capable off roader. An off roader is supposed to make it through under it's own power.
Ross, I hear what you're saying about a locker causing you to push it harder and farther, but that's true for regular 4x4 and even 2wd. Lots of people make it over that first obstacle and they're so impressed with their truck that they think they can do anything after that so they push it farther and end up getting stuck. But you can't blame that on having lockers, or 4wd, ATRAC or anything else.. The driver not knowing his or his truck's abilities and not knowing the trail is the problem. No one should be pushing any limits by themselves, especially on a trail they aren't familiar with. But if they do, I agree.. they better have a winch!
