Aftermarket (Moog) front lower control arms okay to use?

[Spktyr]

It appears my truck's previous owner couldn't be bothered to find out what the popping noise from the front end was and the anti-roll bar endlinks appear to have wallowed out their holes in the control arms. Looks like I need to replace the stock control arms as a result. I know from reading here that aftermarket lower ball joints are a bad idea so I'm obtaining Toyota lower ball joints. However, is there any problem with using, say, Moog Problem Solver lower control arms? I ask because I have a credit at some local auto parts stores that I'd like to use and this seems ideal if the Moog lower control arms are acceptable.

 

[RS Dude]

I would avoid Moog products. I am currently replacing my Moog suspension parts with Toyota oem because they are junk.:violin:

 

[Slowgoat]

OEM only.

I have gotten a year out of a Moog ball joint on a LCA. But I’m ready to buy when I need the new OEM LCA, the ball joint has given me time to save.

But any aftermarket control arms and also hardware other than OEM are utter crap.

There are countless unlucky souls who have tried.

Dig around. Lots of threads are out there.

 

[spartacus]

Moogs dont last are okay in a pinch but oem are better. also you can weld on a piece of steel and drill a hole to fix the link bracket on the control arm. you can also ask in the classifieds on the forum from time to time they popup or look at junkyards for a good used one.

 

[96RedRunner]

Moog Problem Solver lower control arms? I ask because I have a credit at some local auto parts stores that I'd like to use and this seems ideal if the Moog lower control arms are acceptable.

Good call using OEM ball joints.
I haven't used Moog arms have used their UCA and LCA bushings, the rubber is stiff like OEM bushings. The metal fab of Moog arms looks as good as OE. Stay away from Doorman control arms!! rubber is spongey.
[MENTION=50279]spartacus[/MENTION] makes good point on welding tab for link. What shape are your arm bushings in, time to change?

 

[Mudeprived]

In. I'd like to see more feedback on Moog arms. I used moog arms/trackbars a few times on my jeeps in the past and their bushings held up to off road abuse and many years/miles.

I need new arms on my rig but I cannot afford to shell out the $$ it costs to buy OEM and my arms are rusted pretty badly that a bushing replacement will not be enough.

 

[Scramble]

The bushings are crap on Moog & wear out quickly, you'll be doing the job again. Look for low mileage used on ebay if money is tight.

 

[Spktyr]

The bushings are crap on Moog & wear out quickly, you'll be doing the job again. Look for low mileage used on ebay if money is tight.

I was considering using the Moog arms but installing poly bushings in them prior to installation. Any thoughts on that?

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

I was considering using the Moog arms but installing poly bushings in them prior to installation. Any thoughts on that?

I will preface my statement by saying I'm a OEM parts user guy... too an extent. For instance, my RR ABS sensor recently went bad, melted when the output of my muffler broke away. Anyways, I price a new OEM ABS sensor - $197!! WTF!!! I look up after market ones knowing that the wire is only 2 wires, 2 magnets and some fasteners. I found some that look EXACTLY like OEM for less than $50..I'll take that chance to save $150. Point is, you have to use common sense when using OEM or AM parts. I always sway toward OEM if the price differential isn't that much, like for front brake rotors or pads but when I see a difference in price (like my ABS sensor) I'm compelled to buy AM. Mission critical parts like LBJs, most everything on the motor, I go OEM too.

With all that being said, to your question about the LCA bushings. I will say I used OEM. I got my truck with over 150K and they were still in OK shape. I only replaced them because I had the LCA off anyways. They were $40 a piece (they're $50 now). Yep, that's considerably more money than Whitelines or POLY but I consider those bushings mission critical, IMO. Furthermore, IMO, POLY bushing add to a harsh ride. There's very little give in them. Road vibration can be passed along all the way to the steering if everything is POLY. I have personal experience with this as I replaced all my rack bushings with poly and now I can feel every little jut in the road. Is it more "responsive"? I guess but it is a truck not a Corvette. It was very noticeable from the OEM bushings which were not too bad of shape, I was just being proactive. I will eventually go back to rubber, I think, (although all those bushing were a bit of a pain to do), but it's not high on my priority list of things to do. Another example (although slightly different) is my rear bumpstops. I bought Toytec bumpstops which were nice but they utilized the OEM, rock hard friggin bump which, when the bump hit, would rattle my teeth. I quickly had enough of that and got the SS bumpstop which I could easily adapt to a cushy POLY AM bump (yes poly but it was designed to have a lot of give) and the teeth jarring hits stopped. Point of saying this is how that "hardness" in that suspension component transmitted that harshness all the way to my body. There's even a seller on here now that looks like he's got the bumpstop mastered. I would definitely gotten them if they were around when I got mine.
This all makes me wonder how many of these "vibration" threads would be alleviated with more cushy bushings. (OEM if you will) Just a thought. And by the way, before any of the "well I got poly bushings and I'm fine" responses come up just remember I said this is MY OPINION, (and it's my truck)

IMO, stay away from MOOG for Toyotas. My son's Jeep seemed to be OK with the MOOG stuff but in my experience, Toyotas "reject" substandard parts like a virus. As I said before, I used OEM bushings, which I hammered out and in. I did it in away I found easy. I've seen quite a few "productions" on getting the bushings out. I tried a few. I figured out away which worked for me. If I were replacing the LCA now, I would get a good used OEM LCA and some OEM bushings OR (if I wasn't comfortable with the bushing removal) I would buy whole LCAs from Toyota. Yep, you'll spend around $100-150 more but you won't have to make a "production" out of the LCA bushing removal (or pay someone to remove them) Is that saved time, blood and sweat worth $100? That's for each of us to decide.
Now if your LCA eccentrics are frozen in your LCA that's another "production" all together....

 

[Topher7]

Hi all, I agree that OEM are superior BUT after going through the front end with lots of OEM parts only to find the LCA bushings needed replacement as well, I went with Moog for the LCA bushings and tie rod ends (used poly for the steering rack). Followed the instructions from the guy on here who YouTube's repairs. I've put ~20k miles on them without issue so far. 90% of those miles have been all around Mexico where the roads are...no where near the condition of some of the worst roads in the US. I feel as though they have been stressed harder than if I was back in the States.

I would recommend OEM to anyone but based on my circumstances at the time, I couldn't justify the added cost and so far, it's worked out for me.

Sent from my XT1635-01 using Tapatalk

 

[Spktyr]

I will preface my statement by saying I'm a OEM parts user guy... too an extent.

Parts snipped for space. You make some points I will consider, but I take issue with your statement below.

Furthermore, IMO, POLY bushing add to a harsh ride. There's very little give in them. Road vibration can be passed along all the way to the steering if everything is POLY. I have personal experience with this as I replaced all my rack bushings with poly and now I can feel every little jut in the road.

First "POLY" isn't an acronym or brand name, there's no good reason to type it in all caps. :bat:

Second (and more seriously), you seem to have the second of the two most common misconceptions about polyurethane bushings - that they're all hard and unforgiving. I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote on my former Bronco forum to save myself some typing:

Another thing to consider: When dealing with polyurethane bushings, be advised that they're not all of equal hardness. They are graded by a property called durometer, how resistant they are to distortion or bending. Put another way, the 'softness' of the polyurethane. Poly can be made in a wide spectrum of softness to allow you to tailor the bushing's properties to where you want them for a given application; for any given application you can hypothetically have bushings as hard as rocks or have them soft like a gummy bear though bushings as soft as the latter aren't terribly useful in most vehicle applications. A higher durometer number is harder.

This means that by carefully selecting bushings, you can tailor how your vehicle handles and rides. Sometimes you will want the hardest bushing for least distortion and suspension binding, sometimes you will want a softer bushing for shock absorption and better ride. While all manufacturers will tailor durometer for each bushing application, they tend to certain biases. As a gross general rule, Energy's bushings tend (and this is not a hard and fast rule even within similar applications) to be harder than Prothane's. There are other reputable manufacturers too, like Daystar and PowerFlex; you can inquire with vendors as to what "Shore A" durometer they are using. (Also, the other makers don't necessarily have a graphite impregnated option for every application, so inquire first.)

Here is a related article for additional reading, from the point of view of European car guys that explains about Shore A durometer numbers and what you're looking for there - decent reading although not everything applies to Bronco application bushings: https://www.eeuroparts.com/blog/2120/how-to-shop-for-poly-bushings/

Just because a bushing is made from polyurethane doesn't necessarily mean that it's hard like a rock. Further, there's yet another bushing type out on the market, synthetic elastomer; this is what Whiteline ships in a number of products. It too can be had in varying durometer, varying 'softness' - from hard as a rock to way softer than any OEM rubber. Making a general statement that "poly is all hard and doesn't have any give" is kind of like having a bad experience with a single Toyota Paseo and then claiming all Toyotas are terrible as a result. Polyurethane is used in *beds* for humans and pets, that's how soft you can make the stuff. That's what a base Tempurpedic bed is - polyurethane (admittedly as a foam, but still.)

If you do actually *want* bushings that are 'hard like rocks' with zero deflection, you don't go for polyurethane - you go looking for Delrin aka polyoxymethylene. https://www.ridetech.com/info/why-you-need-delrin-the-gold-standard-of-suspension-bushings/

That stuff is amazing on road courses, but I find it *is* too harsh for most street applications where perhaps a true zero-deflection bushing is perhaps not exactly the best choice.

Oh, the first most common misconception about polyurethane bushings - they all squeak and there's no way to stop that, and there's no difference other than appearance when you choose different colors of bushing. Weeeellll.....

Both Energy Suspension and Prothane Suspension offer poly bushings in red and black. The black ones have an advantage over the red ones - the black ones are graphite impregnated so that when the lubricant eventually goes away they will still be self-lubricating and will resist squeaking. I recently verified this again with Prothane and Energy - Energy themselves pointed out that the part number suffix indicated the composition with "R" for red and "G" for the graphite impregnated black.

Something else - you should buy an additional small tub of the bushing prelube they put in the box. What comes in the box is really not enough and you if you have a tub you can slather the stuff on there. I've been doing this for fifteen years in various vehicles and never had a squeak that poly bushings were responsible for.

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Parts snipped for space. You make some points I will consider, but I take issue with your statement below.



First "POLY" isn't an acronym or brand name, there's no good reason to type it in all caps. :bat:

Second (and more seriously), you seem to have the second of the two most common misconceptions about polyurethane bushings - that they're all hard and unforgiving. I'm going to copy and paste something I wrote on my former Bronco forum to save myself some typing:



Just because a bushing is made from polyurethane doesn't necessarily mean that it's hard like a rock. Further, there's yet another bushing type out on the market, synthetic elastomer; this is what Whiteline ships in a number of products. It too can be had in varying durometer, varying 'softness' - from hard as a rock to way softer than any OEM rubber. Making a general statement that "poly is all hard and doesn't have any give" is kind of like having a bad experience with a single Toyota Paseo and then claiming all Toyotas are terrible as a result. Polyurethane is used in *beds* for humans and pets, that's how soft you can make the stuff. That's what a base Tempurpedic bed is - polyurethane (admittedly as a foam, but still.)

If you do actually *want* bushings that are 'hard like rocks' with zero deflection, you don't go for polyurethane - you go looking for Delrin aka polyoxymethylene. https://www.ridetech.com/info/why-you-need-delrin-the-gold-standard-of-suspension-bushings/

That stuff is amazing on road courses, but I find it *is* too harsh for most street applications where perhaps a true zero-deflection bushing is perhaps not exactly the best choice.

Oh, the first most common misconception about polyurethane bushings - they all squeak and there's no way to stop that, and there's no difference other than appearance when you choose different colors of bushing. Weeeellll.....

The bushings that came with my LR SPC UCAs are a way harder than the bushings that came out of there and are due to be taken apart for greasing. Don't have to do that with OEM.

The bushings I used in my sway bar links are way harder than the ones that I took out of there. However not in a place were they would transmit vibration so I don't care about them. I just use them for longevity

I gave a first hand account (not a misconception) of the difference in feel with my rack bushings. I certainly am not imagining things here.

As I said, it's my opinion. I have all new rear upper and lower control arm bushings OEM, (uppers I had to get whole new arms) New front LCA bushings OEM, and new LR UCAs with POLY bushings and all new sway bar links, OEM with POLY bushings, My truck drives like a dream, accept for the overly sensitive steering, but no vibrations at all.

As far as I know there's only one part # for Whiteline bushings for the front LCAs. I've seen them and handled them and they are, for certain, "harder" than OEM bushings. Would actually be nice if you actually could get them in varying durometer, but you can't. I would love to have a bushing (for our trucks) that has the longevity of the POLY and the vibration absorption of rubber, but it's not out there.

 

[mtbtim]

How about grabbing some used OEM arms from a wrecked 3rd Gen at a PickNPull? Plop some Whiteline poly bushings in there and you'll be golden. Like others have stated, I'd avoid Moog.

A lot of us are running poly LCA bushings, including myself, and I haven't noticed any extra vibrations or harshness in my ride due to them.

Here's 2 videos of how you can swap the LCA bushings:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kmaZNBp1gZM" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/6FzEHygizoI" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[JayRolla]

Biggest issue with polyurethane is when the grease washes out after some time they get super loud. My polys up top and bottom control arms are ridiculously loud. It's an offroad only rig now so I really don't care.

You don't get major vibrations unless swapping motor mounts. And I can not tell the difference in harshness running poly on the control arms, away bars and steering rack.

 

[Lindenwood]

I recently dug into this. After a lot of searching, here is what I found:

1) There are a lot of anecdotes about bushing failure (i.e. crumbling within 10s of thousands of miles) with aftermarket LCAs.

2) I found exactly one example of aftermarket LCAs actually breaking on a 3rd gen 4runner.

You can take that how you will. OEM bushing failure before 12-15 years or 150k miles seems pretty rare, and I have never heard of an OEM LCA actually breaking.

I am pretty cheap, but after learning these things I decided to skip the aftermarket LCAs.

 

[notcraig]

Resurrecting this thread because I can't find a definitive answer after searching through several threads.
I'll be replacing my LCA bushings in the coming weeks. I'll also need to replace the seized cam bolts at the same time. Will I be able to re-use the cam plate if I need to cut through the bolt and cam adjuster sleeves to remove the LCA?
Any suggestions on which parts to use?

Moog K100127 kit: CAD $64.06 per pair

OEM Cam Adjustor Sleeve (48409-35050): CAD $33.03 each
OEM Cam Plate (48452-35020): CAD $34.60 each
OEM Bolt & Washer (90080-11283): CAD $6.00 each



Thanks!

 

[cl4Rk]

Moog K100127 kit: CAD $64.06 per pair

I used Moog K100127 after my originals needed to be cut out due to rust.

I don’t have any real miles on them yet. Time will tell. I liked that they are greasable.

 

[DirtDrift]

Resurrecting this thread because I can't find a definitive answer after searching through several threads.
I'll be replacing my LCA bushings in the coming weeks. I'll also need to replace the seized cam bolts at the same time. Will I be able to re-use the cam plate if I need to cut through the bolt and cam adjuster sleeves to remove the LCA?
Any suggestions on which parts to use?

Moog K100127 kit: CAD $64.06 per pair

OEM Cam Adjustor Sleeve (48409-35050): CAD $33.03 each
OEM Cam Plate (48452-35020): CAD $34.60 each
OEM Bolt & Washer (90080-11283): CAD $6.00 each

Thanks!

If you don't destroy the cam plate when removing the bolt, I don't see any reason you couldn't reuse it. But, be prepared to have that cam plate seized to the bolt sleeve coming from the other side. I've done many LCA's, and it was pretty rare for me to keep cam plates. I usually hit them pretty hard from behind with an air chisel to separate them from the sleeve so I recommended replacement instead of dealing with the potential for returning customers.

Personally, seeing Moog's design with the centric bolts I'd just go OEM. And no I'm not against Moog, I use their LCA's and bushings on my own 3rd gen's and have never had any issues.

 

[notcraig]

I used Moog K100127 after my originals needed to be cut out due to rust.

I don’t have any real miles on them yet. Time will tell. I liked that they are greasable.

That they're greaseable is what drew me to them as well. But then... Moog, so :shrug:

If you don't destroy the cam plate when removing the bolt, I don't see any reason you couldn't reuse it. But, be prepared to have that cam plate seized to the bolt sleeve coming from the other side. I've done many LCA's, and it was pretty rare for me to keep cam plates. I usually hit them pretty hard from behind with an air chisel to separate them from the sleeve so I recommended replacement instead of dealing with the potential for returning customers.

Personally, seeing Moog's design with the centric bolts I'd just go OEM. And no I'm not against Moog, I use their LCA's and bushings on my own 3rd gen's and have never had any issues.

That's sort of what I figured. Was hoping some pbb would do the trick, so I could save the 120 bucks for something else, but we'll see. There are probably better areas to be chintzy.

Thanks for the input boys

 

[D'arce]

I'm just throwing this out there, and I know its been beat to death; is it possible that the Moog lbj's fail from lack of being greased? My understanding is that if its got a grease fitting the seals are looser and they need to be greases OFTEN. I used Moog for my lbj and I will be switching back to oem simply for the sealed, no maintenance aspect. The only reason I used Moog was because I've used them on my 1 ton Ford with great success. I've had no issues with mine as of yet.