Alignment issues. Sanity check please!

This is another indication that something is shifting the faster you go. It is more noticeable because your covering more ground. It pretty obvious to me that a toe angle is changing as your moving. In some cars, this is normal but not drastic enough to cause problems, and manufacturers compensate by specs being toed in ( wheels slightly pointed inward) because as a vehicle moves forward most suspensions (at least ones with positive caster, which is almost every vehicle) try to force the wheels outward.
The obvious reason it's not showing up on the rack is because the vehicle is not moving. The tech needs to do his due diligence and check each component that would cause this problem. Things that need to be looked at have been mentioned but I'll mention them again. LCA bushings, Inner and outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, and the rear lateral control arm bushings.
One other thing, just because the specs are in the "green" doesn't mean it's right. This drives me absolutely crazy. For example the spec for our truck's caster angle is 1.7 to 3.3 degrees. Now if the left side is 1.7 and the right is 3.3 it will show as green but the cross caster is 1.6 degrees and the vehicles will pull to the side with the least amount of positive caster, which in this case would be to the left. I always trained guys to get the spec within .5 degrees or better on the cross caster and camber to eliminate pulling caused by those angles. Also, to compensate for road crown, you want to set your caster a little higher on the right side. Ideally, for our trucks, the front caster should be 2.8 degrees on the left side and 3.3 degrees on the right side.

Can you upload your alignment printout? That would help a lot. Good luck!

EDIT: I just saw your specs on a previous page. They look ok except for the cross caster (.7 degrees) and really should be pulling slightly to the left, which would make you want to turn the wheel to the right, on a flat surface, to compensate, which is what you said the problem is correct?

So get this.

I was leaving my mom's house, backed out of the driveway, turned the wheel left while sitting stationary. I heard a loud thud, now the wheel is just a hair to the left. Pretty much off the same amount it was to the right.

Any ideas on that? Sorry, I'm standing in line at uhaul and can't respond to your whole post right now. I'll do so when I get back home.

Thanks!
 
This is another indication that something is shifting the faster you go. It is more noticeable because your covering more ground. It pretty obvious to me that a toe angle is changing as your moving. In some cars, this is normal but not drastic enough to cause problems, and manufacturers compensate by specs being toed in ( wheels slightly pointed inward) because as a vehicle moves forward most suspensions (at least ones with positive caster, which is almost every vehicle) try to force the wheels outward.
The obvious reason it's not showing up on the rack is because the vehicle is not moving. The tech needs to do his due diligence and check each component that would cause this problem. Things that need to be looked at have been mentioned but I'll mention them again. LCA bushings, Inner and outer tie rods, steering rack bushings, and the rear lateral control arm bushings.
One other thing, just because the specs are in the "green" doesn't mean it's right. This drives me absolutely crazy. For example the spec for our truck's caster angle is 1.7 to 3.3 degrees. Now if the left side is 1.7 and the right is 3.3 it will show as green but the cross caster is 1.6 degrees and the vehicles will pull to the side with the least amount of positive caster, which in this case would be to the left. I always trained guys to get the spec within .5 degrees or better on the cross caster and camber to eliminate pulling caused by those angles. Also, to compensate for road crown, you want to set your caster a little higher on the right side. Ideally, for our trucks, the front caster should be 2.8 degrees on the left side and 3.3 degrees on the right side.

Can you upload your alignment printout? That would help a lot. Good luck!

EDIT: I just saw your specs on a previous page. They look ok except for the cross caster (.7 degrees) and really should be pulling slightly to the left, which would make you want to turn the wheel to the right, on a flat surface, to compensate, which is what you said the problem is correct?

I just trained a guy Thursday on a Tundra, the vehicle was well within specs but had a slight pull to the right. Right side Caster was 1.6+ left side was 2.2+, I brought the left side down to 1.1. This gave me NO pull, left side camber was 0, right side was -.1. I figure the road crown and slight camber to the left kept it straight. It drove perfectly.
 
I just trained a guy Thursday on a Tundra, the vehicle was well within specs but had a slight pull to the right. Right side Caster was 1.6+ left side was 2.2+, I brought the left side down to 1.1. This gave me NO pull, left side camber was 0, right side was -.1. I figure the road crown and slight camber to the left kept it straight. It drove perfectly.

Nice job. That's a pretty steep caster angle for a large truck. My Runner has those angles right now with a 2.5" lift and my steering has a hard time returning to center without some help. What were the specs?
 
Nice job. That's a pretty steep caster angle for a large truck. My Runner has those angles right now with a 2.5" lift and my steering has a hard time returning to center without some help. What were the specs?

I think 1.4 was minimum. I couldn't hold that keep from moving camber. I was training and I didn't want to get dirty, or I'd have made it perfect. LOL
 
Alright guys, after having my local shop check everything out, they found nothing wrong. No bad bushings or slop anywhere, alignment is tight and right on, and they can't reproduce the steering wheel jumping from one point to another. I offered everything in this thread as a place to look as to what would explain the steering wheel issue.

The only explaination they could offer, which was a guess and not backed up by anything other than the symptoms I gave them since they couldn't find anything else, was that perhaps the steering rack had "jumped a tooth in the gear" and that they have no way of seeing or proving that without some serious involvement (and $$$.)

They did say that if I noticed a way to make it happen with consistency to bring it back and show them and they would take it from there.
 
Welcome to the "Am I nuts, or is this alignment off?!" club! I've been a member since I lifted my Runner years ago. I also have a Firestone lifetime alignment. You describe *exactly* the symptoms I've experienced for years. I mean, to the letter, and it doesn't even warrant retyping it because it's so similar.

Over the course of my 4 years of ownership, I have replaced everything in my front end *except* my LCAs and UCAs. I went to see a reputable Toyota mechanic here in Denver, Jesse at ATLR, to have him do a timing belt kit job for me. I took it back to him just inquiring if he'd be willing to do the Tundra brake mod. He noticed my passenger LCA bushings were shot, and asked if I'd ever noticed the vibration when I brake. I did, I just figured it was my warped rotors.

He was the one to tell me that this can definitely present issues with steering and alignment, so I'm chalking that up to why I'm having the issue you're describing. I've put off replacing the bushings still because it's expensive for someone like me who doesn't have everything to do it in his own garage.

It's worth getting checked out, and specifically requesting they check out.

Best of luck! I'm subscribing to see what happens!
 
Welcome to the "Am I nuts, or is this alignment off?!" club! I've been a member since I lifted my Runner years ago. I also have a Firestone lifetime alignment. You describe *exactly* the symptoms I've experienced for years. I mean, to the letter, and it doesn't even warrant retyping it because it's so similar.

Over the course of my 4 years of ownership, I have replaced everything in my front end *except* my LCAs and UCAs. I went to see a reputable Toyota mechanic here in Denver, Jesse at ATLR, to have him do a timing belt kit job for me. I took it back to him just inquiring if he'd be willing to do the Tundra brake mod. He noticed my passenger LCA bushings were shot, and asked if I'd ever noticed the vibration when I brake. I did, I just figured it was my warped rotors.

He was the one to tell me that this can definitely present issues with steering and alignment, so I'm chalking that up to why I'm having the issue you're describing. I've put off replacing the bushings still because it's expensive for someone like me who doesn't have everything to do it in his own garage.

It's worth getting checked out, and specifically requesting they check out.

Best of luck! I'm subscribing to see what happens!

Well, I'm glad it's not just me but I hate that you're dealing with this too!

Did he quote you a price for what it would cost to have the bushings replaced? I too have the vibration during braking, and like you, thought maybe the rotors were probably warped since I have no idea how old they are.
 
It's a long story, but yeah he (and a one other place I called) did quote it for me and it was almost the same price for them to replace the bushings versus having them replace the whole LCA. So, that sparked my desire to do it myself, I just need to replace my floor jack to do so.

I'll probably just cave when I get my tax refund and have him do it and go enjoy my weekend instead of doing battle with the car and swearing a lot.
 
It's a long story, but yeah he (and a one other place I called) did quote it for me and it was almost the same price for them to replace the bushings versus having them replace the whole LCA. So, that sparked my desire to do it myself, I just need to replace my floor jack to do so.

I'll probably just cave when I get my tax refund and have him do it and go enjoy my weekend instead of doing battle with the car and swearing a lot.

After seeing your post, I called the shop and asked them if the LCA bushings are something they checked just to be sure, and it was. No issue found.

Strictly out of curiosity, I asked the price to replace the bushings and they informed me they only replace the entire LCA, which is something to the tune of ~$1400 to do, which includes 7 hours of labor and the parts.

Guess I'm lucky they can't find a problem with them lol
 
After seeing your post, I called the shop and asked them if the LCA bushings are something they checked just to be sure, and it was. No issue found.

Strictly out of curiosity, I asked the price to replace the bushings and they informed me they only replace the entire LCA, which is something to the tune of ~$1400 to do, which includes 7 hours of labor and the parts.

Guess I'm lucky they can't find a problem with them lol

Woah! That's *really* high. I forgot exactly what I was quoted but it was somewhere in the range of $4-500! Just a head's up to maybe shop around with quotes you get from that shop.
 
Woah! That's *really* high. I forgot exactly what I was quoted but it was somewhere in the range of $4-500! Just a head's up to maybe shop around with quotes you get from that shop.

Oh definitely.

That price wasn't even a consideration. Heck, that's almost half what I paid for the whole truck!

Plus, they say there is nothing wrong with them, and I believe them. They've always been straight up with me. No reason to think that's changed now. The alignment is perfect so there's no emergency here I don't believe.

If I decide to do them down the road, I could probably ask one of the guys and see if they want to make a little cash on the side out of their own garage.
 
Oh definitely.

That price wasn't even a consideration. Heck, that's almost half what I paid for the whole truck!

Plus, they say there is nothing wrong with them, and I believe them. They've always been straight up with me. No reason to think that's changed now. The alignment is perfect so there's no emergency here I don't believe.

If I decide to do them down the road, I could probably ask one of the guys and see if they want to make a little cash on the side out of their own garage.

Be careful doing that, people get fired all the time for stuff like that. LOL.
 
Yeah, I would say though that those bushings do eventually go, and you can search the forums here for a lot of people who've replaced them. They're just rubber, so it happens.

Also, I would second that caution of using discretion when asking mechanics at a garage about side work! There can be problems there with trust and insurance! If they screw up, there's not much you can do to remedy the situation. Best way to work with home mechanics for hire is deal with friends of friends, and only friends they've known a long time. Offering to help is usually welcome, and can keep the price down and you can get some valuable training! Then again, if you're willing to help out, there are quite a few wrenching meet-ups on all sorts of forums that will set you back some food, beer, and parts!

Best of luck!
 
Yeah, I would say though that those bushings do eventually go, and you can search the forums here for a lot of people who've replaced them. They're just rubber, so it happens.

Also, I would second that caution of using discretion when asking mechanics at a garage about side work! There can be problems there with trust and insurance! If they screw up, there's not much you can do to remedy the situation. Best way to work with home mechanics for hire is deal with friends of friends, and only friends they've known a long time. Offering to help is usually welcome, and can keep the price down and you can get some valuable training! Then again, if you're willing to help out, there are quite a few wrenching meet-ups on all sorts of forums that will set you back some food, beer, and parts!

Best of luck!

Discretion is my middle name lol

Even the mechanic won't know I've asked him haha

But seriously, I'm not looking to get anyone in trouble and didn't mean to start a debate on this. I doubt I'd actually do it for the reasons you mention, which are fantastic reasons not to, btw.

With prices like I was just quoted, it's tempting, however! Ha
 
Alright guys, after having my local shop check everything out, they found nothing wrong. No bad bushings or slop anywhere, alignment is tight and right on, and they can't reproduce the steering wheel jumping from one point to another. I offered everything in this thread as a place to look as to what would explain the steering wheel issue.

The only explaination they could offer, which was a guess and not backed up by anything other than the symptoms I gave them since they couldn't find anything else, was that perhaps the steering rack had "jumped a tooth in the gear" and that they have no way of seeing or proving that without some serious involvement (and $$$.)

They did say that if I noticed a way to make it happen with consistency to bring it back and show them and they would take it from there.

When you heard this noise, did your steering wheel jerk or make any weird sudden movement? As ridiculous as their guess sounds, it does actually happen. I've yet to see it on a 4Runner, but I've seen it on Tacomas a couple of times. I doubt it's your issue, and I'm leaning more toward some of the things mentioned here already. Try sitting in your truck with it running and turning the wheel quickly from one side to the other to see if anything acts up.

Unless I missed something in the details through this thread, then it sounds like your only symptoms have to do with wheel position, but never any pulling problems?

The degree you describe it being off sounds too small to be a tooth on the rack, but easy enough to look into it on your own and it's worth trying to rule it out.

Also try spinning the steering wheel around gently all the way left, note its position, and then do the same to the right and note it's position again just to see how centered the rack is with the steering wheel position.
 
Woah! That's *really* high. I forgot exactly what I was quoted but it was somewhere in the range of $4-500! Just a head's up to maybe shop around with quotes you get from that shop.

that doesn't sound right. id guess the parts alone would be more than that.
 

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