alignment off on TRD Pro
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imi.trdpro
New member
Gentlemen,
After reading this (and many other alignment related topics on this forum), I am still struggling to find the TRD PRO alignment specs.
Yes, we have several assumptions that the TRD PRO numbers are close to 2014 4Runner. But how close? ;-) Being an engineer myself, I tend to trust officially issued documentation, but less to assumptions.
What I am looking for is a spec issued by Toyota.
Something that officially was published by Toyota and that specifically define TRD PRO alignment specs (or clearly indicates that the specs are the same as 4Runner 20xx). I am going to an alignment shop later this week and already verified that they do NOT have the specs for TRD PRO.
If anyone has this information, I would really appreciate to send me that document. Plus, we all can benefit if this information shared in here.
Thank you in advance!
After reading this (and many other alignment related topics on this forum), I am still struggling to find the TRD PRO alignment specs.
Yes, we have several assumptions that the TRD PRO numbers are close to 2014 4Runner. But how close? ;-) Being an engineer myself, I tend to trust officially issued documentation, but less to assumptions.
What I am looking for is a spec issued by Toyota.
Something that officially was published by Toyota and that specifically define TRD PRO alignment specs (or clearly indicates that the specs are the same as 4Runner 20xx). I am going to an alignment shop later this week and already verified that they do NOT have the specs for TRD PRO.
If anyone has this information, I would really appreciate to send me that document. Plus, we all can benefit if this information shared in here.
Thank you in advance!
imi.trdpro
New member
Just returned back from one of my nearest Toyota dealers. I went there to obtain the TRD PRO alignment specs, since I couldn't get it over the phone/email/fax.
I have to say that what I went through today at this Service department is similar to your experience. Talked to bunch of "Service advisors" who just don't know $hit. Some of them even never heard about TRD PRO option. Period. :|
Finally, I ended up talking to a service manager. He brought his https://tis.toyota.com and tried to find the alignment info for TRD PRO.
Well.. it doesn't exist. The closest document he was able to obtain was the one called "ALIGNMENT / HANDLING DIAGNOSIS... " (Doc ID: RM000001V4302OX). This document has specs for xx -2016 4Runners, except TRD PRO.At this point I asked the main question "Without the specs available, how would your service department properly align wheels on my brand new 2016 TRD PRO if I bring it tomorrow? Is it going to be just an educated guess?"
I have to give this guy a credit that he took my question seriously (he was the only person who at least tried to help me) and told that may be there are specs in a Hunter alignment machine that they have downstairs. We went there together and checked the available specs for 4Runners. Their Hunter machine had all 2011-2015 4Runner alignment specs, but not the one for TRD PRO. There was a strange option called "2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner", but I don't believe it is our TRD PRO, as there was no TRD PRO in 2011.
So, I guess the dealership do not have updated numbers yet (or just do not want to pay the database update charges to Hunter, since TRD PRO is very very very little % of their alignment business).
Just in case I obtained the numbers for "2011-15: 4x4: Trail Edition" and that mysterious ""2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner". They ARE different. But that still doesn't answer the question of "What are the proper alignment specs for our TRD PRO machine".
Basically I am back to square one. Frustrated, as I have scheduled an appointment at local alignment shop that told me in advance that they do not have TRD PRO specs, but will do alignment if I get the specs from Toyota (honest people).
Last edited:
BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=134667]imi.trdpro[/MENTION]
I'm going to respond here as well as to your PM. So I ran into this issue when I tried to find the TRD Pro SAI specification in this thread:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...o-sai-out-spec-oscillation-2.html#post2199632
The TRD Pro does not seem to exist as a section in the FSM. As I wrote in the PM this may be because the TRD Pro is essentially a dressed up SR5 (or is it Trail? I forget) and Toyota may not recognize it internally as a separate model/trim in their service literature/parts literature. There was a similar issue with the 4th Gens in that the "Sport Edition" did not really show up in the FSM or Parts Fiche, it instead was lumped together with "SR5 Type", the only other option being "Limited".
But what I did find on TIS that may be of use to you is specifications relating to the TRD Pro in the form of the suspension kit.
View attachment T-AI-0956-D.pdf
The above file is the installation instructions for the 2015 4Runner TRD Suspension Kit PTR13-89150 Rev. C, it's the same suspension installed on the TRD Pro. At the end of the instructions are specifications for Camber and Caster for the new kit.
I'm going to respond here as well as to your PM. So I ran into this issue when I tried to find the TRD Pro SAI specification in this thread:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...o-sai-out-spec-oscillation-2.html#post2199632
The TRD Pro does not seem to exist as a section in the FSM. As I wrote in the PM this may be because the TRD Pro is essentially a dressed up SR5 (or is it Trail? I forget) and Toyota may not recognize it internally as a separate model/trim in their service literature/parts literature. There was a similar issue with the 4th Gens in that the "Sport Edition" did not really show up in the FSM or Parts Fiche, it instead was lumped together with "SR5 Type", the only other option being "Limited".
But what I did find on TIS that may be of use to you is specifications relating to the TRD Pro in the form of the suspension kit.
View attachment T-AI-0956-D.pdf
The above file is the installation instructions for the 2015 4Runner TRD Suspension Kit PTR13-89150 Rev. C, it's the same suspension installed on the TRD Pro. At the end of the instructions are specifications for Camber and Caster for the new kit.
1engineer
Moderator
Why would they be different? Same vehicle, same dimensions. Different shocks and springs right?
BlackWorksInc
New member
Honestly I don't know... if you look at the link I provided to another thread, in my post I showed a couple of different measurements. The FSM actually shows them varying slightly from trim level to trim level, including the two mysterious "S-Runner" & "X-Runner" models listed. The variance is negligibly small, but it's there...
imi.trdpro
New member
Just returned back from one of my nearest Toyota dealers. I went there to obtain the TRD PRO alignment specs, since I couldn't get it over the phone/email/fax.
I have to say that what I went through today at this Service department is similar to your experience. Talked to bunch of "Service advisors" who just don't know $hit. Some of them even never heard about TRD PRO option. Period. :|
Finally, I ended up talking to a service manager. He brought his https://tis.toyota.com and tried to find the alignment info for TRD PRO.
At this point I asked the main question "Without the specs available, how would your service department properly align wheels on my brand new 2016 TRD PRO if I bring it tomorrow? Is it going to be just an educated guess?"
I have to give this guy a credit that he took my question seriously (he was the only person who at least tried to help me) and told that may be there are specs in a Hunter alignment machine that they have downstairs. We went there together and checked the available specs for 4Runners. Their Hunter machine had all 2011-2015 4Runner alignment specs, but not the one for TRD PRO. There was a strange option called "2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner", but I don't believe it is our TRD PRO, as there was no TRD PRO in 2011.
So, I guess the dealership do not have updated numbers yet (or just do not want to pay the database update charges to Hunter, since TRD PRO is very very very little % of their alignment business).
Just in case I obtained the numbers for "2011-15: 4x4: Trail Edition" and that mysterious ""2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner". They ARE different. But that still doesn't answer the question of "What are the proper alignment specs for our TRD PRO machine".
Basically I am back to square one. Frustrated, as I have scheduled an appointment at local alignment shop that told me in advance that they do not have TRD PRO specs, but will do alignment if I get the specs from Toyota (honest people).
Here is continuation of my 4Runner TRD Pro wheel alignment specification research saga...
3 days ago, I opened a case with Toyota Care. I requested to provide me with wheel alignment specifications for TRD Pro.
The first Toyota Care representative tried to loop me back to a dealer in my area explaining that "the dealer will be contacting me with the needed information", which I refused since I already knew the outcome of such attempt. I explained that what I want is to get the answer coming directly from Toyota - the manufacturer of the vehicle that should be the only proper source to provide the car specification details.
They switched me to a different Toyota Care rep... The second Toyota Care rep told me that they need more time to research (I guess my simple inquiry is not easy to answer).
I gave them two days and called yesterday asking for a case status update. Was told that they are still researching and contacted Product Team. I should expect to receive a call from Toyota on Monday, Jan. 28th.
With that said, I am pretty sure that until now, these numbers were not officially published by Toyota and shared with dealers (otherwise, what would take Toyota 3 days to locate the needed document?).
I have a feeling that to get the proper answer I will end up writing to Toyota headquarters. As an owner of a car made by Toyota, I believe I should be able to receive a clear answer on the specifications for wheel alignment that would guarantee the proper and optimal driving characteristics.
Stay tuned.. I will update this thread on Monday.
BlackWorksInc
New member
[MENTION=134667]imi.trdpro[/MENTION]
While you're at it, maybe you can find out where we can buy one of these "S-Runners" and "X-Runners" the FSM talks about! Best of luck man!
While you're at it, maybe you can find out where we can buy one of these "S-Runners" and "X-Runners" the FSM talks about!
Best of luck man!imi.trdpro
New member
This is a compilation of the pieces that I published here. Ideally I would create a separate thread, because I didn't want to fork the old one. I believe that I found something that Toyota doesn't want to admit officially. Having a dedicated thread will benefit more 2015/2016 4Runner TRD Pro owners who is looking for the same information on official wheel alignment specifications and failed to find it. Unfortunately I am new to this forum and don't have enough posts to create a separate thread.
A little background on this story...
I bought a brand new 2016 4Runer TRD Pro in December 2015 from a remote dealer. While driving it almost 200 miles back, I realized that the wheel alignment is off. To keep my car on a straight line I had to rotate steering wheel to almost 2:00 PM position. Not willing to drive another 200 miles back to that remote dealer, I decided to obtain the wheel alignment specifications (Casper, Caster, Toe, SAI) from Toyota, so I could take my brand new car to a local alignment shop that I trust. Using these numbers they would adjust the suspension and fix the issue in less than 90 minutes. (Many car manufacturers print this information in the vehicle Owner's Manual, but it was missing in TRD Pro case).
So that was my plan. I only needed the numbers specific to my brand new 2016 4Runner TRD Pro. And here is where the wheel alignment saga started...
posted on 2016/02/08:
=====================
This is getting even more frustrating... It is like a vicious circle now.
Last week on 02/05, I have published a review on Yelp describing my experience with Toyota support and then sent e-mail to Toyota USA with the link to this Yelp.
I hoped that may be somebody more intelligent there finally will be able to realize that for 1.5 month my simple question can’t be properly addressed by the Toyota and by its employee that they assigned to handle my case. I really hoped that somehow my e-mail could help to escalate this issue.
Well… What a naïve person I was!
Toyota sent me reply this morning basically saying that my feedback was “relayed to the associate addressing your issue”.
Basically they just forwarded my e-mail back to Mr. Percy Chan.
I do not want to hear from that person any more. Reasons explained in the previous post. It is just a waste of my time!!! I feel like I am running in circles!
Here is the exact answer that Toyota sent me:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Response Via Email (Rob B.) 02/08/2016 09:40 AM
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We regret to hear your issue remains unresolved. Your additional comments have been relayed to the associate addressing your issue.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via email or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday, and from 7 AM to 4 PM Saturday.
We have documented your comments at our National Headquarters.
Rob B.
Toyota Customer Experience Center
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
At this point I am really "impressed" on how dysfunctional Toyota support is. I am sending a letter to Toyota of Japan. Let’s see if those guys can help me.
A little background on this story...
I bought a brand new 2016 4Runer TRD Pro in December 2015 from a remote dealer. While driving it almost 200 miles back, I realized that the wheel alignment is off. To keep my car on a straight line I had to rotate steering wheel to almost 2:00 PM position. Not willing to drive another 200 miles back to that remote dealer, I decided to obtain the wheel alignment specifications (Casper, Caster, Toe, SAI) from Toyota, so I could take my brand new car to a local alignment shop that I trust. Using these numbers they would adjust the suspension and fix the issue in less than 90 minutes. (Many car manufacturers print this information in the vehicle Owner's Manual, but it was missing in TRD Pro case).
So that was my plan. I only needed the numbers specific to my brand new 2016 4Runner TRD Pro. And here is where the wheel alignment saga started...
posted on 2015/12/21:
=====================
Just returned back from one of my nearest Toyota dealer. I went there to obtain the TRD PRO alignment specs, since I couldn't get it over the phone/email/fax.
I have to say that what I went through today at this Service department is similar to your experience. Talked to bunch of "Service advisors" who just don't know $hit. Some of them even never heard about TRD PRO option. Period. :|
Finally, I ended up talking to a service manager. He brought his https://tis.toyota.com and tried to find the alignment info for TRD PRO.
At this point I asked the main question "Without the specs available, how would your service department properly align wheels on my brand new 2016 TRD PRO if I bring it tomorrow? Is it going to be just an educated guess?"
I have to give this guy a credit that he took my question seriously (he was the only person who at least tried to help me) and told that may be there are specs in a Hunter alignment machine that they have downstairs. We went there together and checked the available specs for 4Runners. Their Hunter machine had all 2011-2015 4Runner alignment specs, but not the one for TRD PRO. There was a strange option called "2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner", but I don't believe it is our TRD PRO, as there was no TRD PRO in 2011.
So, I guess the dealership do not have updated numbers yet (or just do not want to pay the database update charges to Hunter, since TRD PRO is very very very little % of their alignment business).
Just in case I obtained the numbers for "2011-15: 4x4: Trail Edition" and that mysterious ""2011-15: 4x4: X-Runner". They ARE different. But that still doesn't answer the question of "What are the proper alignment specs for our TRD PRO machine".
Basically I am back to square one. Frustrated, as I have scheduled an appointment at local alignment shop that told me in advance that they do not have TRD PRO specs, but will do alignment if I get the specs from Toyota (honest people).
posted on 2015/12/24:
=====================
Here is continuation of my 4Runner TRD Pro wheel alignment specification research saga...
3 days ago, I opened a case with Toyota Customer Experience. I requested to provide me with wheel alignment specifications for TRD Pro.
The first Toyota representative tried to loop me back to a dealer in my area explaining that "the dealer will be contacting me with the needed information", which I refused since I already knew the outcome of such attempt. I explained that what I want is to get the answer coming directly from Toyota - the manufacturer of the vehicle that should be the only proper source to provide the car specification details.
They switched me to a different Toyota rep... The second Toyota rep told me that they need more time to research (I guess my simple inquiry is not easy to answer).
I gave them two days and called yesterday asking for a case status update. Was told that they are still researching and contacted Product Team. I should expect to receive a call from Toyota on Monday, Jan. 28th.
With that said, I am pretty sure that until now, these numbers were not officially published by Toyota and shared with dealers (otherwise, what would take Toyota 3 days to locate the needed document?).
I have a feeling that to get the proper answer I will end up writing to Toyota headquarters. As an owner of a car made by Toyota, I believe I should be able to receive a clear answer on the specifications for wheel alignment that would guarantee the proper and optimal driving characteristics.
Stay tuned.. I will update this thread on Monday.
posted on 2016/02/08:
=====================
You will like this, Gentlemen! It seems like Toyota is officially "misleading" (I almost wanted to say lying to) me via its employee Mr. Percy Chan.
Today I found e-mail which I previously overlooked. The e-mail is from Mr. Percy Chan who is Product Liaison at Toyota Customer Experience Center and has an attached "4runner pro alignment specs.pdf" file. He sent this e-mail to me on 02/05/2016 writing the following:
"I left you a voice mail earlier today. I forwarded the officially revised alignment specs from our repair manual to you back on 1/25/2016 and our Executive Office Assistance Mikki had personally called you and left you her voice mail, confirming my email with the attached document to you back on 1/25/2016. I am resending the document to you now. Please feel free to contact me directly for questions."
So, dear Toyota 4Runner owners, pay attention now!
1) According to that e-mail from Toyota employee, I now have the "officially revised alignment specs" for my 2016 4Runner TRD Pro.
When you open the "4runner pro alignment specs.pdf" file that Mr. Chan attached, you can see the "Doc ID: RM000001V4302oX" that I already listed in my previous update and mentioned that I obtained a printed version of that very same document on 12/21/2015.
So, we can assume now that there will be a difference between my document (which is older and which has no alignment specs for TRD PRO) and the document that Toyota employee sent claiming that it is "officially revised alignment spec".
I wish it was true and Mr. Chan sent me the revised version, but it is not.
2) Both documents his and mine are identical. Both documents have the following information in the document header ("Last modified: 8/3/2015, ver. 6.6N, Doc ID: RM000001V4302oX").
Nowhere in his document I can find anything printed about 4Runner TRD Pro. The only difference between my old copy and the document that Mr. Chan sent, are his notes where he circled with pen the "SR5, SR5 Premium" grade and added handwritten "Specs for the 4Runner Pro".
3) I have also scanned my hard copy and attached both files so everyone can compare.
Both documents have dates when they were printed in the lower right corner.
The print date on the "officially revised alignment specs" document that Toyota sent me is 1/25/2016.
The print date on my copy named "12-21-2015 - Doc ID RM000001V4302oX.pdf" is 12/21/2105. I have highlighted related pieces in yellow.
Needless to say I don't want to have any other phone conversations or e-mail exchange with this person. He is Toyota employee and he is misleading
Now is a question to everyone who is reading this. Given the following:
- I was patient and waited for Mr. Chan to resolve my inquiry since 12/21/2015.
- Toyota still didn't provide me with any officially printed wheel alignment specs that clearly say 4Runner TRD Pro. All I have are the handwritten notes of Toyota employee who seems to be not trustful.
- All my attempts to escalate this case, were rerouted back to the same person.
WHAT WOULD YOU DO IF YOU WERE IN MY SHOES?!
posted on 2016/02/08:
=====================
This is getting even more frustrating... It is like a vicious circle now.
Last week on 02/05, I have published a review on Yelp describing my experience with Toyota support and then sent e-mail to Toyota USA with the link to this Yelp.
I hoped that may be somebody more intelligent there finally will be able to realize that for 1.5 month my simple question can’t be properly addressed by the Toyota and by its employee that they assigned to handle my case. I really hoped that somehow my e-mail could help to escalate this issue.
Well… What a naïve person I was!
Toyota sent me reply this morning basically saying that my feedback was “relayed to the associate addressing your issue”.
Basically they just forwarded my e-mail back to Mr. Percy Chan.
I do not want to hear from that person any more. Reasons explained in the previous post. It is just a waste of my time!!! I feel like I am running in circles!
Here is the exact answer that Toyota sent me:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Response Via Email (Rob B.) 02/08/2016 09:40 AM
Thank you for contacting Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
We regret to hear your issue remains unresolved. Your additional comments have been relayed to the associate addressing your issue.
If we may be of further assistance, please contact us via email or by calling 800-331-4331. We are available from 5 AM to 6 PM, Pacific Time, Monday through Friday, and from 7 AM to 4 PM Saturday.
We have documented your comments at our National Headquarters.
Rob B.
Toyota Customer Experience Center
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
At this point I am really "impressed" on how dysfunctional Toyota support is. I am sending a letter to Toyota of Japan. Let’s see if those guys can help me.
Attachments
Last edited:
imi.trdpro
New member
If you have 2016 Trail or Trail Premium - you are in luck. The wheel alignment information IS available for your car. Dealers have Trail/Trail Premium profile in their alignemnt machine. The alignment numbers are known. Should not be a problem. Good luck!
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imi.trdpro
New member
Let us know how it went. Better, get your alignment results scanned and posted here.
9lb taco
New member
[MENTION=134667]imi.trdpro[/MENTION]
While you're at it, maybe you can find out where we can buy one of these "S-Runners" and "X-Runners" the FSM talks about!
Those other models are (as you know) miscategorized, and aren't models of 4Runners.
The S-Runner was the street/sport model of the Tacoma from 2001-2004 (good luck finding one)
The X-Runner was the same equivalent for the 2005+ Tacoma until discontinued in ~2014
BlackWorksInc
New member
I thought about that being a possibility, but that doesn't make any sense since they are listing them under the same model codes, not to mention why would you even include that data in a 2015 FSM? It wasn't included in the 4th gens...
imi.trdpro
New member
I am with BlackWorksInc here. It is still a mistery for me.
Did you ever get your alignment issues resolved? I bought my TRD PRO in July and have had 4 alignments, 3 by toyota and 1 by a local shop and I am still having issues with the truck pulling to the right and constant wandering.
Here is the last alignment done by toyota. Is the rear camber concerning?
Here is the last alignment done by toyota. Is the rear camber concerning?
Attachments
Racehoss
New member
Just bought a 16 TEP WITHOUT KDSS. Has always pulled to the right and floated around at highway speeds. Toyota did another alignment. I haven't put too many miles on since the realignment but it seems as though the steering wheel is cocked to the left slightly when going straight. Would the values on this readout indicate anything abnormal or cause the wheel to be off? The steer ahead at 0.04? Is that off?
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smackdownTRD
New member
Was your steering wheel off center?
