Alignment Tips -- OEM UCA

[NinjaOne]

Dealer won't touch it, says it's as close to spec as they can get it.

Caster is the adjustment that would allow the UCA to clear the springs, right?

 

[mrpurplepenguin]

Camber (and to a lesser degree caster) would slightly affect the UCA to spring rubbing. If you adjust camber to bring the LCA inwards, it will help pull the coil spring away from the UCA "hole"(I'm assuming it's interfering between the outward facing side of the coil and the inner lip of the UCA, yes?). Adjusting caster would shift the spring forward/aft within the UCA. But keep in mind, these movements will be very slight, almost negligible; you're moving the LCA ~1/4" with the adjusters, the coil is pivoting about the top mount and the UCA is 2/3 or so of the way up there...

It'll scuff up your coil a bit, but a slight interference at full droop isn't going to hurt anything. You're losing a small amount of suspension excursion and you might get a pop or bang when you set the wheel back down after unloading it, but I don't think it'll do any more damage than that. I'd be more concerned about the stress on the ball joint at that angle of flex than I would be about the UCA hitting the spring.

As an aside, that's complete BS from the dealer. They gave you evidence they didn't adjust anything when they gave you the before/after printout! Up to you, but I'd complain on the grounds of "doing absolutely nothing doesn't fall under the category of as close to spec as you can get", particularly with pictures that show the (what looks like untouched) adjusters near the center of their adjustment range.

 

[NinjaOne]

Camber (and to a lesser degree caster) would slightly affect the UCA to spring rubbing. If you adjust camber to bring the LCA inwards, it will help pull the coil spring away from the UCA "hole"(I'm assuming it's interfering between the outward facing side of the coil and the inner lip of the UCA, yes?). Adjusting caster would shift the spring forward/aft within the UCA. But keep in mind, these movements will be very slight, almost negligible; you're moving the LCA ~1/4" with the adjusters, the coil is pivoting about the top mount and the UCA is 2/3 or so of the way up there...

It'll scuff up your coil a bit, but a slight interference at full droop isn't going to hurt anything. You're losing a small amount of suspension excursion and you might get a pop or bang when you set the wheel back down after unloading it, but I don't think it'll do any more damage than that. .

Thanks for all your help, its been super useful.

I stopped by a 4x4 shop and they were a bit more helpful. They agreed with me that there was a fair amount of room for adjustment on the cams, but suggested the biggest thing to get it closer to spec was lifting the back slightly more. Running a generous 2.5" lift in front and a skimpy 1.5" lift in the back.

Time to buy springs instead of a spacer it looks like

I'd be more concerned about the stress on the ball joint at that angle of flex than I would be about the UCA hitting the spring.

Which ball joint? UCA or LCA?

As an aside, that's complete BS from the dealer. They gave you evidence they didn't adjust anything when they gave you the before/after printout! Up to you, but I'd complain on the grounds of "doing absolutely nothing doesn't fall under the category of as close to spec as you can get", particularly with pictures that show the (what looks like untouched) adjusters near the center of their adjustment range.

I would agree, seems like their tech doesn't know how to align, only to adjust as their computer tells them too. At this point, much as I'd like to, I'm not going to make a fuss until I get my new dashboard. I originally decided to go with the dealer because I was expecting the cams to be frozen and wanted to be able to get a loaner while they cut them out. Also, I have a warranty that covers everything but the emissions system and regular maintenance items and I knew they took it. Wishing now I hadn't, especially since I found out the 4x4 works would've taken the warranty :lie:

 

[mrpurplepenguin]

Thanks for all your help, its been super useful.

I stopped by a 4x4 shop and they were a bit more helpful. They agreed with me that there was a fair amount of room for adjustment on the cams, but suggested the biggest thing to get it closer to spec was lifting the back slightly more. Running a generous 2.5" lift in front and a skimpy 1.5" lift in the back.

Time to buy springs instead of a spacer it looks like

Which ball joint? UCA or LCA?

I would agree, seems like their tech doesn't know how to align, only to adjust as their computer tells them too. At this point, much as I'd like to, I'm not going to make a fuss until I get my new dashboard. I originally decided to go with the dealer because I was expecting the cams to be frozen and wanted to be able to get a loaner while they cut them out. Also, I have a warranty that covers everything but the emissions system and regular maintenance items and I knew they took it. Wishing now I hadn't, especially since I found out the 4x4 works would've taken the warranty :lie:

No problem on the help man! I went through a lot of this process when I did my lift so I figure I'll contribute what I can.

That's interesting about raising the rear; I've never heard that wisdom before. Most in the T4R community go for ~1" less lift in the rear to get rid of the rake (front sits lower from the factory). I'm curious about their reasoning though; raising the rear would actually decrease caster by making the steering angle steeper, but I'd think the effect is very minor (raise the rear another 1" with a wheelbase of 110" is a 0.41 degree change in caster, but I think it changes it the wrong way).

As for the ball joint, the upper one gets pulled at a more extreme angle during droop. I don't know if it's enough to bind it up, but I've heard that brought up a few times around here as a reason to switch to aftermarket UCAs with uniballs (better range of motion vs. ball joint).

I hear you about the warranty work, best not to cause trouble now when you've got the big dashboard service coming up. Good luck getting it all handled, sounds like the 4x4 place has a better idea of what to do.

 

[NinjaOne]

That's interesting about raising the rear; I've never heard that wisdom before. Most in the T4R community go for ~1" less lift in the rear to get rid of the rake (front sits lower from the factory). I'm curious about their reasoning though; raising the rear would actually decrease caster by making the steering angle steeper, but I'd think the effect is very minor (raise the rear another 1" with a wheelbase of 110" is a 0.41 degree change in caster, but I think it changes it the wrong way).

I'm going to stop by again when I'm not exhausted and can actually think. I think he was thinking by removing the reverse rake that he would get additional adjustment at the cams. Been doing some reading and pretty sure you're right that I'd lose caster.

I'd only be lifting the back about an 1/2", so it wouldn't be significant. I'd be swapping the Daystar 1.5" for a set of 2" springs. Eventually I'd like to swap most of the suspension components front/rear with beefier and adjustable ones. Not really needed for a street princess, but planning to change that.

As for the ball joint, the upper one gets pulled at a more extreme angle during droop. I don't know if it's enough to bind it up, but I've heard that brought up a few times around here as a reason to switch to aftermarket UCAs with uniballs (better range of motion vs. ball joint).

Upgrading my UCAs to uniball ones are on my (long) upgrade list, but I'm not super worried about them. I don't really get off-road (yet), was looking at the UCA/spring contact when it was one a jack, so the only load it was getting was the weight of the tire.

I hear you about the warranty work, best not to cause trouble now when you've got the big dashboard service coming up. Good luck getting it all handled, sounds like the 4x4 place has a better idea of what to do.

Yeah, tech sounded far more confident in what he could get it aligned too.

 

[Sungod]

If I was the mechanic I would have done exactly as the work was performed. Those cams are undoubtedly seized and wouldn't be worth the effort to spend a half hour with a torch just with hope of getting a tenth of a degree that wouldn't make any difference because you need at least 3 degrees.

I wouldn't call the tech lazy, but they probably should have communicated to you the situation.

 

[NinjaOne]

Update

Got new upper/lower arms on. With stock arms a better alignment was possible. Mechanic did say they were seized and that it was the best that was possible without new cams at the time, so ya'll were right there. Not 3°, but still rides better than it did before. OEM arms 'cause warranty stipulated that I replace them with OEM arms

 

[Mike07SE]

Glad to see you got it fixed. The cams are almost always siezed if not touched for a few years. I would still say with the 2.5" of lift to look into the UCA replacement options down the road. Just see how it drives for awhile. If the truck remains twitchy at the wheel on the highway you should swap.

 

[NinjaOne]

Glad to see you got it fixed. The cams are almost always siezed if not touched for a few years. I would still say with the 2.5" of lift to look into the UCA replacement options down the road. Just see how it drives for awhile. If the truck remains twitchy at the wheel on the highway you should swap.

Yeah, I've thought about putting on aftermarket UCAs and may still do so at some point. I tried asking the warranty/dealer to put aftermarket on but they wouldn't (no surprise there) Unless I decide I don't like how it drives, I'll prob. wait until after I get new tires or have a boatload of extra money for some reason

So far it drives well. Haven't tried it at freeway speeds, but it felt okay even at the lower caster on the old arms.