absalom
New member
Good thoughts. It seems like crossmember is the fuse in this situation, and it's surprising they wouldn't readily offer a "fuse" replacement to a product that's designed to be impacted.
(Alleged) Addicted OffRoad Poor Costumer Service
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AddictedOffroad
New member
The crossmember isn't a fuse. In this case, it saved the 4runner from being totaled. It did its job when he T-boned another vehicle.
Guys, I'm not sure how this turned into a product development survey. lol
I do offer a replacement crossmember in the event of an accident to replace a damaged crossmember. What I don't do is offer that crossmember by itself as a DIY fab product. Nor do I offer my winch mount separately. Its a dedicated winch mount that is our design and our product. Not to mention that its hard enough keeping up with orders as is. Waiting on these items is one of the reasons orders get delayed to begin with. And isn't that one of the points of this thread? That we are behind on turn times?
However, we do offer a Trail-Gear winch mount that can be used as a base to fab from instead.
The way I see it is that if you have the ability to fab your own bumper, then you should also have the ability to fab your own way to mount it.
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absalom
New member
Honestly tho, I'm still frustrated with Addicted's customer service. I ordered my steak well done and it came out dry ... wtf??
AddictedOffroad
New member
No, there is definitely a market for it. But, what I do isn't only about making money. People chastise us for not offering this stuff. They also chastise us for not offering a weld together "kit". And, that is their prerogative and right to do so. However, its also my right to not want to sell those products by themselves. :noidea:
I have a certain level of quality that I expect to see out of every weld, notch, bend, crossmember, winch plate, and bumper as a whole that we sell. And, as much as I hate to say it, I don't want to see a novice fabricator destroy that with poor welds, butt welded joints, and terrible finish work. In other words, I don't want a potential customer to look at a bumper that was hacked together using our products, and think that we built it ourselves.
Now, that isn't to say that everyone is a novice or terrible fabricator, but for those people that are good at it, you can use some other company's products to achieve your goal.
That being said, Trail-Gear makes a winch mount that anyone can buy to start a winch bumper. You can fab up a mounting crossmember by using the winch plate as a template on some 2x3 rec tubing. Drill some holes in it, and weld it between your frame rails. And, there is your base to start from. If you cannot do that, then how can you possibly build the rest of the bumper to begin with?
T4R2014
Elite Member
My thoughts exactly. It should be readily available if requested. He does, however, have every right to not offer it as a standalone part if he doesn't want people building off of his design.
With that said, it's a bumper that people install on a vehicle that may be used daily. If something happens, parts should be available. Imagine having to run around without a fender after a fender-bender because the body shop says they are not readily available from Toyota. No one wants to be driving around for a month without a bumper because a replacement part isn't available. I realize it's a large company vs a small company, but there are not that many bumpers out there as opposed to a fender. There should still be some spares.
AddictedOffroad
New member
Here is a cut/paste from another thread. Hopefully this will outline what is going on a little better:
So, I want to clear a few things up here. Yes, our turn times are running longer than usual. As is my response time in getting back to people. That is changing as we speak.
Ryder and I had a 45 email chain between the two of us that would show otherwise. But, I was not able to get back to him immediately all the time, and therefore it was lacking. I tried to keep him informed of everything when I could. He ordered our complete package on 8/11. The sliders and rear bumper were shipping on 11/3. The front bumper was the big issue. We had 12 sets of wings come back from press bend. However, Ryder was 13th on the list of bumpers ordered. So, yes, he missed the cutoff. Unfortunately, I misquoted him during that time, assuming he was part of that production run. And, his bumper had to wait for the next run to come though. It was my fault.
The other issue we have is sales. I really hesitated this year even having a sale at all because I know what usually happens during that time. The Black Friday sale is the biggest sale we have and we usually get anywhere from 30-40 bumpers ordered that week. For the three weeks leading up to it, all I received was phone calls or emails asking about if we were going to run a sale or not. I decided last minute to just run the sale. It was a mistake as we received well over 30 bumper orders. At that time I was very clear to every customer who ordered a bumper what it would do to turn times, and that I was quoting 12 weeks minimum on the turn times.
It also never helps during the holidays as manufacturing companies are crippled by midweek holidays(short weeks), shipping delays, and employee time off. We go through the same issues.
To boot, my 75yr old mother who lives alone in VA, fell in her bathtub in Nov. She was unable to get out of the tub for 5 days. So, when they found her, she was disoriented, critically dehydrated, going into kidney failure, etc. It forced me to drop everything and take a trip out there for a week to get her affairs in order and start the process of getting her house ready to sell as she cannot live on her own anymore. Then, again, the week before Xmas, I had to drive out to VA and load her entire house into my enclosed trailer to bring it back to CO. Then from 12/31-1/4 I had to drive it to CA to move her to my brother's house where we have an assisted living nurse setup to help her.
FWIW, this isn't an excuse, as I should have been able to juggle all of it. People don't care about this stuff when they were told a turn time and its over that time. They just want their bumper, and I understand. I have begun the process of relinquishing a lot of things I have on my plate everyday to James, my shop manager. But, it will take some time to get him ready to start answering emails and phone calls. But, I need someone who can do these things if/when I cannot be in the shop.
So, here we are this week. I got back into the shop on Monday and we went to work. We are getting caught up again. We built 20 tube bumpers, and several plate bumpers this week. As of right now, we are caught up to the 4 week mark on tube bumpers, and 8 week mark on plate bumpers. However, I am waiting on a run of wings on the plate bumpers, so I am still quoting 8-12 weeks on plate bumpers because manufacturing them takes time. Tube bumpers are running 4-6 weeks. I also hired another guy this week to help try to get caught up.
Needless to say, Ryder is somewhat right about our customer service during the last few months. Its has been definitely lacking, but I will get that sorted out immediately as I will now have more time to spend in the shop again.
So, if you want a plate bumper or tube bumper, you have my word that I will get it done ASAP. But, just so you know: There are times where I will turn the ringer off on my phone during the day as well. Otherwise, I will never be able to get anything done in the shop. The days of 10 calls in a day are over. We receive 50+ calls a day, easily. So, some days you will need to leave a voicemail and be patient for a day until I can get back to you.
__________________
So, I want to clear a few things up here. Yes, our turn times are running longer than usual. As is my response time in getting back to people. That is changing as we speak.
Ryder and I had a 45 email chain between the two of us that would show otherwise. But, I was not able to get back to him immediately all the time, and therefore it was lacking. I tried to keep him informed of everything when I could. He ordered our complete package on 8/11. The sliders and rear bumper were shipping on 11/3. The front bumper was the big issue. We had 12 sets of wings come back from press bend. However, Ryder was 13th on the list of bumpers ordered. So, yes, he missed the cutoff. Unfortunately, I misquoted him during that time, assuming he was part of that production run. And, his bumper had to wait for the next run to come though. It was my fault.
The other issue we have is sales. I really hesitated this year even having a sale at all because I know what usually happens during that time. The Black Friday sale is the biggest sale we have and we usually get anywhere from 30-40 bumpers ordered that week. For the three weeks leading up to it, all I received was phone calls or emails asking about if we were going to run a sale or not. I decided last minute to just run the sale. It was a mistake as we received well over 30 bumper orders. At that time I was very clear to every customer who ordered a bumper what it would do to turn times, and that I was quoting 12 weeks minimum on the turn times.
It also never helps during the holidays as manufacturing companies are crippled by midweek holidays(short weeks), shipping delays, and employee time off. We go through the same issues.
To boot, my 75yr old mother who lives alone in VA, fell in her bathtub in Nov. She was unable to get out of the tub for 5 days. So, when they found her, she was disoriented, critically dehydrated, going into kidney failure, etc. It forced me to drop everything and take a trip out there for a week to get her affairs in order and start the process of getting her house ready to sell as she cannot live on her own anymore. Then, again, the week before Xmas, I had to drive out to VA and load her entire house into my enclosed trailer to bring it back to CO. Then from 12/31-1/4 I had to drive it to CA to move her to my brother's house where we have an assisted living nurse setup to help her.
FWIW, this isn't an excuse, as I should have been able to juggle all of it. People don't care about this stuff when they were told a turn time and its over that time. They just want their bumper, and I understand. I have begun the process of relinquishing a lot of things I have on my plate everyday to James, my shop manager. But, it will take some time to get him ready to start answering emails and phone calls. But, I need someone who can do these things if/when I cannot be in the shop.
So, here we are this week. I got back into the shop on Monday and we went to work. We are getting caught up again. We built 20 tube bumpers, and several plate bumpers this week. As of right now, we are caught up to the 4 week mark on tube bumpers, and 8 week mark on plate bumpers. However, I am waiting on a run of wings on the plate bumpers, so I am still quoting 8-12 weeks on plate bumpers because manufacturing them takes time. Tube bumpers are running 4-6 weeks. I also hired another guy this week to help try to get caught up.
Needless to say, Ryder is somewhat right about our customer service during the last few months. Its has been definitely lacking, but I will get that sorted out immediately as I will now have more time to spend in the shop again.
So, if you want a plate bumper or tube bumper, you have my word that I will get it done ASAP. But, just so you know: There are times where I will turn the ringer off on my phone during the day as well. Otherwise, I will never be able to get anything done in the shop. The days of 10 calls in a day are over. We receive 50+ calls a day, easily. So, some days you will need to leave a voicemail and be patient for a day until I can get back to you.
__________________
AddictedOffroad
New member
Just to be clear, he never ordered a crossmember a month ago. And, it wasn't until Dec 29th that he tried to get back in touch with me. The PM he mentioned was just two days ago. I will get it handled on Monday and he should have a crossmember by the end of the week.
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MStudt
official vendor
Why not? You used to sell them separate, or at least according to Pirate4x4 you did. Even had a link on one of your pages to it, but the link is or course dead now.
Even if it only works with you'r bumpers it's by far the best option for someone who wanted to build a bumper. I would have bought that in a heart beat to build a front bumper, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.
AddictedOffroad
New member
I have never sold our mounting crossmember separately. Not once unless it was to someone that had damaged it in an accident.
12BYotaFan
New member
I respect what you're saying. I still dont see the logic in it.
So trail gear offers a base plate, which was meant to bolt to the frame rails and be the starting point for "novice fabricators" among others. I understand you dont want bad press out there about your product.
But nobody else, that I have seen, offers a front crossmember that bolts to the frame rails, and is an essential, but replaceable part. That modularity makes your product stand out, imo.
I could buy the trail gear base plate and weld it to my frame rails. That does not offer me the same modularity or removability as your product. Again, an unique feature.
I have the capability, at this time to bend tube and weld. I do not have access to a torch, with which I could cut I could cut 1/4" plate/square tubing to make a similar crossmember.
Nor do i want to make a non removable bumper or crossmember.
Im not the only guy out there with similar limitations.
I understand that it adds time on your end, and further complicates the third party ordering process, but if you're willing to eat the cost of a replacement here and there, I still cant understand your unwillingness to take my money as compensation for one.
-so says the guy who can't let sleeping dogs lie.-
stir_fry_boy
New member
Wow, all it came down to a damning public comment, then the company came out of the woodwork. . . .
jpeaslee
New member
In the FWIW category, mine did take a little longer than initially estimated (and Scott was very clear that it was an estimate, NOT a quote), Ordered in august with a 6-8 week estimate and it took 10 weeks. Communication was sometimes a little delayed, but not surprising. Build quality was top notch and when I had a "problem" installing it, I called up, got Scott on the phone, and he walked me right through my issue (which was my fault, not his.)
Unner
New member
I ordered mine over the phone knowing full and well the wait time would be awhile, but I was ok with that. I really like this bumper and wasn't ready for it when I ordered. I will be ready when it is delivered though. I plan everything out that I do so that helps. Scotty was nice over the phone and I knew it would be a little while. If I wanted the bumper next week I would have ordered an ARB...
mr. projekt
New member
That's funny, I found AOR on Craigslist since I am local.... I sent him and email and had a response in about 20 minutes...
Their bumpers look great IMO and I'm seriously considering ordering one if my current fabricator (Corey [MENTION=116638]InSainFab[/MENTION]) cannot meet my timeline.
Their bumpers look great IMO and I'm seriously considering ordering one if my current fabricator (Corey [MENTION=116638]InSainFab[/MENTION]) cannot meet my timeline.
TBuzz
New member
I have a plate front plate bumper front Scotty and Like it a lot. It was one of the early production ones so it has a few minor flaws in some welds. I think they are bent now instead of welded in this particular spot. Anyhow I got is bc some crybaby returned it because it wasn't suitable for his mall mall crawling photo shoot rig. Very easy transaction for me. Scotty said we have it if you want it. I went right up and they installed it for me and that was that. Then I watched the forum as others struggled to save 10% on a group but and wait. Makes no sense to me, time is more valuable than 10 or 20% of something that cost so little.
It has worked flawlessly for me and I always get quick response from AOR, even though I'm but in the market for anything from them right now. These threads always make me think,uh oh let me get out some tissue.
It has worked flawlessly for me and I always get quick response from AOR, even though I'm but in the market for anything from them right now. These threads always make me think,uh oh let me get out some tissue.
marshall87
New member
From what I'm hearing, looks like I'll need to place my order now if I want it on for the summer? Not even being sarcastic.
rbgerrish
New member
I'm not in a hurry to get mine, and understood it would take a while when ordered. It's not like I have a competition to get to and NEED a winch bumper. It's just a toy for my toy. I'm happy to wait for what I think it is the best looking and lightest 3rd gen bumper on the market...
Bijan
New member
THIS:tea:
Bijan
New member
RedRunner_87
Senior Member
I think the issue is that he was quoting 4-8 weeks and it is taking 20+ weeks and not answering his emails or phone. When you drop $800+ for a product and you are expecting it within a certain time frame it gets bad when you stop answering your customers. His lead times were well over double what he was quoting. I understand stuff comes up in lift, but there are ways to mitigate what is going on. Going dark doesn't help business. Now I think he makes an amazing bumper, and I would buy one. But I am not pleased with his wait times, so I am probably going to go with a local fab shop.
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