Alright, I admit defeat, haha. Suspension is too rough

[jross20]

Alright. I should have listen more to some of you back when I first started. My truck semi rides like ass.. lol. I say semi as there are moments when it is good.

I need to know is what items I need to swap as I am not sure. Let me explain how she rides to give you all an idea.

The setup

Truck - 2000 SR5 V6 4x4 w/ rear locker. 138k miles I think, if that matters.

Front - Tundra 5100s with OME 880s. Note that with plastic guy's bumps, there is only maybe... 0.15" of uptravel, I'm sure this is part of the problem but I don't know if it's the whole problem.

Rear - Tundra 5100s with OME 890s (had 906's but they were too short)

On Road

The front is as harsh as a mother, on small sudden bumps. The rear feels too "weak" and bottoms out easily, also feels harsh but in a different way than the front. (note that I have plastic guy's bumps all around) Any kind of pot holes or other sudden drops feel like my spine is shattering.
However, large dips or changes in the road are soaked up very well. So... It feels like quick bumps = spine shatterings, but slow bumps are soaked up mostly. It just feels like the shocks are not doing anything...but maybe I'm not understanding how they should feel?

Off-Road

Note that I've not fully finished my build so I've only done some light off-roading on family property and such.
Flex wise it is great. The rear can flex fantastically, and the front gets about 4" of down travel. Note that after the disaster I had with my previous truck, I really need to maximize down travel in the front as much as possible. (Last truck had like 0.5 to 0.75" of down travel and it was horrible, shocks kept violently maxing out)
Pretty much the same as on road, anything quick and small is harsh as hell, but large bumps are alright.


-----------------------------

So, thoughts and suggestions? Note that as soon as this "covid stimulis" check comes in, I'm ordering an ARB deluxe front bumper so I know I will need a different setup in the front. (And for those who may ask, sliders are here and painted, just waiting for things to clear up to get them welded.)

I'd really like for her to ride over everything and absorb it all like a sponge. If that is possible. While still maintaining good flex and front down travel.

 

[Riceye]

Front - Tundra 5100s with OME 880s. Note that with plastic guy's bumps, there is only maybe... 0.15" of uptravel, I'm sure this is part of the problem but I don't know if it's the whole problem.

What perch are you in on the Tundra Billies?

Rear - Tundra 5100s with OME 890s (had 906's but they were too short)

What is your rear ride height, hub center to wheel arch?

Also, what tires, load range and pressure are you running?

 

[jross20]

What perch are you in on the Tundra Billies?



What is your rear ride height, hub center to wheel arch?

Also, what tires, load range and pressure are you running?

Hey man

Lowest perch. I always heard that preloaded was never a good idea. Plus I believe it eats up travel range?

Rear height at rest is 23.25" roughly. Front is about 21.5"

Tires are Cooper discoverer at3 4s, 265/70r16, load is 112T. Pressure is between 30-35, unfortunately I'm still at the office and don't have a gauge. (Normally I have one, it's a long story)

Note that the issues I we're having we're ever so slightly relieved when I went from my previous worn out tires to these new ones.

 

[Riceye]

Yeah, unfortunately it doesn't sound simple, like moving perches or dropping pressures, will solve your problems. Perhaps changing to 4Runner or Tacoma specific Billies would be the way to go. On the other hand, the heavier front bumper may change the game a bit.

The ride height for the rear sounds a little high compared to the front. Better get a heavier bumper for the back, too. Lol!

 

[jross20]

Yeah, unfortunately it doesn't sound simple, like moving perches or dropping pressures, will solve your problems. Perhaps changing to 4Runner or Tacoma specific Billies would be the way to go. On the other hand, the heavier front bumper may change the game a bit.

The ride height for the rear sounds a little high compared to the front. Better get a heavier bumper for the back, too. Lol!

Well I do want a rear one, but there are other things I need to purchase... Haha!

I'm wondering if I'll be too get the heavy OME spring for the bumper

 

[the great him]

A couple things come to mind, I had 5100 back in the day and they were garbage, very stiff, was not happy one bit with them(yes mine were Tundra ones too). Unfortunately there are not many options coming to mind in that price range, so yeah maybe dropping down to the Tacoma ones with slightly different valving would help, but they have less adjustability. If I remember correctly the bottom/lowest setting is not even a lift setting and might be actually lower than stock setting but I'd have to do a refresher on the 5100s and I'm on my phone so that isn't as easy to find but I think in the the 3rd gen lift faq it should cover that. If it was me I would probably go up at least one spring perch and lose the front bump stops. You don't have enough uptravel for aftermarket bumps, go back to the stock ones. If you aren't jumping the truck their is no need for the extended bumps up front like aftermarket ones. I have Timbrens on min and even with a lift I don't have much room before conto with them, thankfully I have some weight and they are very soft so it a pretty good match.

But yeah I'd ditch the front bumps, and raise one notch on then 5100s and try that. I think that will help a big deal. You will still be limited by the 5100 and how stiff they are, but they shouldn't be harsh.

 

[jross20]

A couple things come to mind, I had 5100 back in the day and they were garbage, very stiff, was not happy one bit with them(yes mine were Tundra ones too). Unfortunately there are not many options coming to mind in that price range, so yeah maybe dropping down to the Tacoma ones with slightly different valving would help, but they have less adjustability. If I remember correctly the bottom/lowest setting is not even a lift setting and might be actually lower than stock setting but I'd have to do a refresher on the 5100s and I'm on my phone so that isn't as easy to find but I think in the the 3rd gen lift faq it should cover that. If it was me I would probably go up at least one spring perch and lose the front bump stops. You don't have enough uptravel for aftermarket bumps, go back to the stock ones. If you aren't jumping the truck their is no need for the extended bumps up front like aftermarket ones. I have Timbrens on min and even with a lift I don't have much room before conto with them, thankfully I have some weight and they are very soft so it a pretty good match.

But yeah I'd ditch the front bumps, and raise one notch on then 5100s and try that. I think that will help a big deal. You will still be limited by the 5100 and how stiff they are, but they shouldn't be harsh.

I was mainly worried about over-compressing the shocks. Didn't want to bust the shocks the first time I hit a bump or something... haha. Only downside is I think I mistakenly threw the old bumps out!

Wait, so you're saying the lowest setting on the Tundra 5100s is "below" the normal "regular" height?

 

[4runnerfiend]

4" of down travel and barley any uptravel sounds wrong. from my understanding you want there to be the same amount of up travel as down travel.

Yes tundra 5100 bottom perch is below standard ride height. you should at least be on the second perch.
ride quality is subjective unfortunately.
a little bit of preload is good.
I'd take off the durobumps, although I don't think they are causing issues. they are designed to be soft and progressively get firmer.

My suggestions are to take off the durobumps. move the spring perch to the second one. assuming that is the ride height you want. make sure your PSI is 29-30. check all other suspension components.


FYI I have 2016 4runner front springs on tundra 5100's set at the 4th perch and I enjoy my ride quality. (subjective) run c rated tires at 29 psi. I've got aftermarket UCA. new LCA bushings ext... 2.5" of down travel. Need to measure up travel.

 

[4runnerfiend]

other thought is the age of the tires? i had some old ass tires before and they rode like shit. new tires helped a bunch. tire pressure is huge. if you don't have the old bumpstops you can test drive with no bunps at all. I've heard people taking them off. (I don't suggest it.) good for a test drive at least.

 

[jross20]

4" of down travel and barley any uptravel sounds wrong. from my understanding you want there to be the same amount of up travel as down travel.

Yes tundra 5100 bottom perch is below standard ride height. you should at least be on the second perch.
ride quality is subjective unfortunately.
a little bit of preload is good.
I'd take off the durobumps, although I don't think they are causing issues. they are designed to be soft and progressively get firmer.

My suggestions are to take off the durobumps. move the spring perch to the second one. assuming that is the ride height you want. make sure your PSI is 29-30. check all other suspension components.


FYI I have 2016 4runner front springs on tundra 5100's set at the 4th perch and I enjoy my ride quality. (subjective) run c rated tires at 29 psi. I've got aftermarket UCA. new LCA bushings ext... 2.5" of down travel. Need to measure up travel.

Well see now I'm wondering if I should swap out the shocks and coils when I put on the arb bumper. Basically just do it all at one vs multiple things. I just have to do something just to change it a few weeks later. Plus that's more alignments haha. Is the "heavy load" OME recommended on the 3rd gens? I remember it was considered mandatory or something on 2nd gen tacos.

As for up travel, I haven't found a way to measure it. There is just 0.15" before the arms contacts the superbumps.

other thought is the age of the tires? i had some old ass tires before and they rode like shit. new tires helped a bunch. tire pressure is huge. if you don't have the old bumpstops you can test drive with no bunps at all. I've heard people taking them off. (I don't suggest it.) good for a test drive at least.

They are almost brand new still :zoom:
I'll have to check to see if I do have them still. Maybe I didn't trash them.

 

[4runnerfiend]

Well see now I'm wondering if I should swap out the shocks and coils when I put on the arb bumper. Basically just do it all at one vs multiple things. I just have to do something just to change it a few weeks later. Plus that's more alignments haha. Is the "heavy load" OME recommended on the 3rd gens? I remember it was considered mandatory or something on 2nd gen tacos.

As for up travel, I haven't found a way to measure it. There is just 0.15" before the arms contacts the superbumps.



They are almost brand new still :zoom:
I'll have to check to see if I do have them still. Maybe I didn't trash them.

from what i read the OME 880's are 500 lbs springs which is not heavy. I guess you will have to confirm. most people will run 600-650 lbs springs with heavy front bumper and winch. I do not have these so can't speak for that.

 

[jross20]

from what i read the OME 880's are 500 lbs springs which is not heavy. I guess you will have to confirm. most people will run 600-650 lbs springs with heavy front bumper and winch. I do not have these so can't speak for that.

Yeah that sounds like what I've heard.

I'm curious now if the front tundra 5100s would work better with the weight and higher spring force. That would be nice.

Do people still run land cruiser oem shocks in the rear?

 

[UnderFire]

Yeah that sounds like what I've heard.



I'm curious now if the front tundra 5100s would work better with the weight and higher spring force. That would be nice.



Do people still run land cruiser oem shocks in the rear?

Tundra 5100's definitely can be harsh with no extra weight up front your soft 880's should help a bit.

If I remember correctly 5100's use a digressive shock design. What this means is the quicker the shock is cycling, the smoother it operates, leaving low speed bumps and single potholes harsher than most other shocks, but soaking up high speed off road driving better than most.

I am not particularly picky about my ride quality so I may not be the best to ask, but I've been happier with the OEM tokico FJ80 shocks, parts house FJ80 shocks and Rough Country N2 series nitrogen rear shocks (you'd be able to use the 4th Gen 4runner low lift shocks) than I was with 5100's. The only shock I've had that I disliked more was the procomp 3000? Series.

It's also important to ask how you're measuring up travel to the bump stops in the front. If you're just measuring distance from bump to frame at ride height that is not correct. The motion ratio difference between wheel travel and travel at the far end of the control arm is significant. I don't know exact numbers but I'd estimate something like 4:1 being that it's 2:1 at the shock mount.

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[O2RunnerSR5]

Just finished my 880/906 lift. So far I love the look! It still looks Factory but now it is just a tad taller. Exactly what I was looking for.


2001 SR5 4x4 Premium
2017 SR5 4x4 Premium

 

[jross20]

Tundra 5100's definitely can be harsh with no extra weight up front your soft 880's should help a bit.

If I remember correctly 5100's use a digressive shock design. What this means is the quicker the shock is cycling, the smoother it operates, leaving low speed bumps and single potholes harsher than most other shocks, but soaking up high speed off road driving better than most.

I am not particularly picky about my ride quality so I may not be the best to ask, but I've been happier with the OEM tokico FJ80 shocks, parts house FJ80 shocks and Rough Country N2 series nitrogen rear shocks (you'd be able to use the 4th Gen 4runner low lift shocks) than I was with 5100's. The only shock I've had that I disliked more was the procomp 3000? Series.

It's also important to ask how you're measuring up travel to the bump stops in the front. If you're just measuring distance from bump to frame at ride height that is not correct. The motion ratio difference between wheel travel and travel at the far end of the control arm is significant. I don't know exact numbers but I'd estimate something like 4:1 being that it's 2:1 at the shock mount.

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Oh yeah I know the 0.15" isn't the articulation, it is just what I can visually see when I'm on a creeper under her. I'll have to see if I can measure it carefully somehow.

I presume the 880's would not work well with the arb deluxe bumper...so now I guess I need to decide what coil to get and hope the extra weight eases up the shocks.

So you're using FJ80 shocks? What years?

Also, can you clarify this part?
"Tundra 5100's definitely can be harsh with no extra weight up front your soft 880's should help a bit"

Did you mean they won't help?

 

[UnderFire]

Oh yeah I know the 0.15" isn't the articulation, it is just what I can visually see when I'm on a creeper under her. I'll have to see if I can measure it carefully somehow.



I presume the 880's would not work well with the arb deluxe bumper...so now I guess I need to decide what coil to get and hope the extra weight eases up the shocks.



So you're using FJ80 shocks? What years?



Also, can you clarify this part?

"Tundra 5100's definitely can be harsh with no extra weight up front your soft 880's should help a bit"



Did you mean they won't help?

90-97 rear shocks is what you'd be after.

Looking at my Tacoma which sits at about 2.5" above stock rode height I do have probably an inch and a half between bumpstop and frame. That is with a stock bumpstop, I don't know how much taller the aftermarket ones are, but in order to get below a quarter inch I'd be nearly at full stuff. Probably 4.5-5" of wheel travel. If your truck was sitting that low it'd be blatantly obvious, so the bumpstops very well could be part of the problem.

In theory your soft front springs should help the ride to a point, that is unless they are too soft and bottoming out under regular driving conditions. I had this happen before I switched from 600lb to 700lb springs on my coil overs, jarring to say the least and very slow to recover. If this is the problem it would only get worse with more weight, and moving the spring perch up is NOT a good solution, as that would over-preload the spring and sacrifice even more ride quality and performance

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