Another Battery Problem Question?

[RunnerLimited]

Hey guys thought id take this problem to this thread before I take it for an inspection to a mechanic.

Long story short. My 4Runner sits for sometimes a week to 2 weeks since I work up north and have a different DD,
I usually go back to the city on the weekends and occasionally boost it and drive it to charge the battery again.
Info on the battery 900CC Costco Battery bought last year, and been doing this to my 4runner for about 6-7 months now.

The problem started to occur just this weekend. I get home, obviously the battery is dead, so I boost it with my other car.
Everything is going good, I drive it on the highway for about a good 20 min then i decide to gas up. Upon trying to turn it back on,
I turn the key and the car does not even try to Crank, it as if the battery was completely dead, that was the first indication something was wrong,
usually after driving it for a bit it would start up right away again.
Got it boosted up at the gas station, drove it even more thinking maybe I didn't charge it enough, go home etc etc. decided to go out and thankfully the 4runner started again!
Perfect... I thought the battery finally charged. Drove to play some football and when we decided to leave I tried turning on the car and then same symptoms started again,
I try to crank it and everything is OFF and the car is completely dead again without even trying to crank.

What is weird is before I try to start it and the key is in the ignition all the lights work perfectly normal like how we start our car, but when I do try to turn the engine on everything just BLACKS out and I try turn the engine on again and it doesn't even click. This is just one instance where it happened this weekend it happened numerous times over the course of this weekend. I didn't know if my car was going to start after going to the groceries etc, sometimes it starts up fine and sometimes it doesn't even crank at all, pretty embarrassing when you have to ask for a boost in a gas station or at a park LOL

Im thinking the battery is completely done after all the draining and boosting it gets on a weekly basis. Im hoping its just the battery, and not the starter or the alternator. Im back at work so the car is sitting again for the week, I plan to change the battery through cosctos warranty and hopefully fixes that problem. What do you guys think it is? any input would be awesome!

 

[RAD4Runner]

Battery discharging from sitting for 2 weeks may be normal...

but...
Start with the basics:
1) ALL connections to battery should have bare, shiny metal making tight contact with bare, shiny metal.
2) Got a volt-meter? $6 will get you one at Harbor Freight (or whatever you have in Canada) Check battery voltage with headlights on after it sits for 2 weeks. Check it same way after you've driven a long distance.
3) "Charge" error light coming on?

 

[RedSled]

Put the battery on a charger, and call it a day.

 

[RunnerLimited]

Put the battery on a charger, and call it a day.

Battery discharging from sitting for 2 weeks may be normal...

but...
Start with the basics:
1) ALL connections to battery should have bare, shiny metal making tight contact with bare, shiny metal.
2) Got a volt-meter? $6 will get you one at Harbor Freight (or whatever you have in Canada) Check battery voltage with headlights on after it sits for 2 weeks. Check it same way after you've driven a long distance.
3) "Charge" error light coming on?

So im guessing that from both your responses it is the battery. I do have a charger ill charge it and see if it occurs again. And no, no battery light that is on when it was actually driving, thats why I was thinking its not the alternator, and might be the starter?

 

[kolelt]

it could be simply a bad battery or you have a parasitic drain.

mr [MENTION=10169]TheDurk[/MENTION] is good with electronics

 

[dozerfrelich]

Sounds like the cable ends are not properly installed. When the lights are on before you try it do you hear one click then everything shuts down? Next time it does pop the hood and wiggle the terminals and check the wire going into the terminals


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[TheDurk]

My first guess, and it's just a guess, is bad battery cables terminals or grounds.* Seems to intermittent and binary (totally alive or totally dead) to be the alt. but could be alt connections.) In the course of this, you have probably killed your battery, too. If you want to to stop effing around and fix it, pull the battery, put it on a charger, and then load test it. Meanwhile, inspect your battery cables and terminals. Any doubt, replace. Clean terminals with a brush tool (cheap). If insulation is pitted up, that's a sign of corrosion underneath. Remove ground from fender, clean with wire brush oe sandpaper, and reattach.

Return battery (that one if good or a new one) to truck and make sure terminals are tight. See if she starts. Check battery voltage. Should be ~12.5 key off, 13-5-14.5 running. Report back either way. If voltages don't check or truck won't start, more work to do.

Any other approach is a waste of time, unless you are really lucky.

*Wrote this before I saw post just above mine.

 

[RunnerLimited]

Sounds like the cable ends are not properly installed. When the lights are on before you try it do you hear one click then everything shuts down? Next time it does pop the hood and wiggle the terminals and check the wire going into the terminals


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Yes exactly, it does one reaaally quick click and everything turns off, i try to turn it on again the second time and not even a click, everything is just shut off no lights before the ignition nothing. Ill brush the terminals and tighten the cable terminals.

Its weird thought how it happens not all the time i started it, sometimes my car would start up and sometimes it just did that.

 

[thegipper]

Things I would check:

1. All of your connections, especially the grounds (ground to engine, tranny, body). Corrosion can creep up into the wires so check that too.
2. Battery, Voltage while it is off and while its running, you can also have it load tested at an auto parts store
3. Parasitic drain, use an amp/volt meter to check

You should be able to leave your truck parked for several weeks and it should fire right up, something is wrong.

 

[RAD4Runner]

Toyota components are almost-always bullet-proof. Most problems are caused by poor wiring/connection/assembly and/or maintenance.
If you seriously want to troubleshoot electrical problems, get a multi-meter. Next only to our senses (see or feel corrosion on or security of connections?), it is the most important tool for troubleshooting electrical issues.
But again, see below for the basics...

So im guessing that from both your responses it is the battery. I do have a charger ill charge it and see if it occurs again. And no, no battery light that is on when it was actually driving, thats why I was thinking its not the alternator, and might be the starter?

ABSOLUTELY NOT THE STARTER.
No, Not the battery but the way it is connected... like we all agree on (below) so I repeat:
ALL connections to battery should have bare, shiny metal making tight contact with bare, shiny metal.
I mean ALL, not just grounds.

Sounds like the cable ends are not properly installed. ...

My first guess, and it's just a guess, is bad battery cables terminals or grounds....
Any other approach is a waste of time, unless you are really lucky.
...

Its weird thought how it happens not all the time ...

That's exactly what poor connections do.

Things I would check: All of your connections...

 

[RunnerLimited]

Thanks everyone for your input! I feel a lot better knowing it might just be my connections, ill make sure everything is tight! Ill update once I come back, crossing my fingers i dont need to spend $$ on repairs

 

[RAD4Runner]

...it might just be my connections... i dont need to spend $$ on repairs

Yes, always start with basics first....
If you took it to the stealer, some mech would guess that it's your starter, your this and that... and you would have to pay for those guesses and parts, when the real cause of the problem was simple corrosion on your connections.

 

[RunnerLimited]

I'm with those above who say not to just guess and to have clean connections.

What happens with guessing, which I've seen a thousand times, is that it could be one of three things, where some guy guesses where he has a 1/3 chance in getting it right.

If he guesses right on the first time, not only does he think he's a diagnostic genius, but, for the rest of his life, he always guess THAT (whatever it was) when the next time that entire system has a problem. (I've seen it with "change the thermostat" so many times whenever there's a cooling system problem that I have to wonder how many people even know what a thermostat does).

If he guesses wrong, he's the kind of guy that opens a thread by saying he's replaced almost every part in the system, and it still doesn't work (where he blames either the parts or the engineers).

The good news is that lots of cars get fixed by guessing.
The bad news is that a lot of perfectly good parts are thrown away.

Yeah my Weekend was really busy thats why i had no time to diagnose it, I only had time to Jump it and hope for the best LOL, next thing I know its Sunday and i have to drive back to work with my other car. but will definitely do everything as mentioned above.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I've had a few batteries that read proper voltage until loaded. Then the battery fell on its arse While reading terminal voltage while trying to start. As soon as the starter load happened the battery would drop below 4vdc.


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[kball]

I switch off between my t4r and taco and they sit for 3 weeks at a time. I never had an issue but knew it wasn't great for the battery. I got one of these 5w panels and a regulator and they start up strong every time.

M-Series Solar Panels

https://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunguard/

 

[19963.4lsr5]

Starters put more load than you think on the battery. The free running amps on the starter in my Cummins is 700-900 amps. The starter load is good enough for seeing if the battery is up to snuff or not.


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[TheDurk]

Starters put more load than you think on the battery. The free running amps on the starter in my Cummins is 700-900 amps. The starter load is good enough for seeing if the battery is up to snuff or not.


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If it works, sure. The problem is when it doesn't. The starter is at the end of the whole system of alt., battery, start circuitry and cabling. You are just wasting time if you don't start by ensuring you have a charged, strong battery before you do any other troubleshooting in a vehicle. This means a separate load tester. If you can't charge and test it, borrow a different battery.

This is learned the hard way from 50 years of fixing cars and tractors. The above has only become more true as we went digital and systems are more dependent on good voltage.

 

[19963.4lsr5]

I am not a Toyota expert and I'm not sure what the significance of "free running" amps are from "starter load amps", but I would first wonder if a Toyota starter typically loads the battery to the tune of 700 to 900 amps because that's just about the cold cranking amp limit of lots of standard batteries.



Usually you want a reserve, where you don't want to push a battery to its limits on every start.



Does a Toyota 4Runner starter really consume that much when starting?

It does not. I agree load testing is necessary. I was just stating that watching the terminal voltage while trying to start and observing the voltage drop during cranking will help because most people don't have a load tester. I have a MidTronics tester that I love and my brother has a 500a Carbon Pile load tester. I have a clamp on amp meter I can put on the starter of the Toy and see how many amps it draws.......


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[RunnerLimited]

I don't know Toyota engines well so take this as advice learned from other vehicles, but some alternators aren't designed to charge a battery from dead to full. Sure, they'll DO that, but this can overheat the diodes on "some" cars and even then, only at some times.

Moral of the story is that you can jump once, and you can jump twice, but don't make it a habit of using your alternator as a charger of a dead batter to full.

Yeah that makes a lot of sense, Ill try to avoid it as much as possible

I switch off between my t4r and taco and they sit for 3 weeks at a time. I never had an issue but knew it wasn't great for the battery. I got one of these 5w panels and a regulator and they start up strong every time.

M-Series Solar Panels

https://www.morningstarcorp.com/products/sunguard/

Actually been planning on getting one of these for a while now, can you leave it on the car for a long period of time without any problems?

 

[Kanoe]

If you don't mind resetting clocks and the like, a quick disconnect battery terminal will also prevent your drained battery.

https://www.amazon.com/Post-Battery-Master-Disconnect-Switch/dp/B001N729FS