Another lift option for 4th gens (w/XREAS)?

[4RunnerRon]

Hey guys, as some of you know, I've been researching all of my lift options for my 06 Sport Edition. Obviously, my XREAS suspension is limiting me somewhat, and I've decided I'm not ready to scrap it yet. So my options to consider have been Cornfed, Revtek, Daystar, etc.

I was just about to call in an order for the Cornfed when I checked out some other forums and read about Toytec. It seems they're a little late getting a product to the 4th gen 4Runner crowd, but they've been providing stuff for the Tacoma, and now the FJ Cruiser. Their spacer kits are similar to the other spacer companies, considering they're 3" front and 2" rear, but Toytec differs in that they use coil springs instead of spacers in the rear. The 4Runner kits come with either an OME coil (heavy duty) or a custom Toytec coil (for comfort) in the rear. I contacted them and they advised this is because spacers in the rear tend to be too stiff and cause sag over time.

So I guess I'm looking for some input from 4Runner guys since I haven't read much about Toytec on this forum. I don't know if it's because Toytec is so late in the game and Cornfed has swept up all the sales, or if Toytec isn't a reputable company. Any feedback from those who know would be appreciated, as I may not be the only one interested in this.

http://www.toyteclifts.com/4Runner.html

 

[Expat]

Well all they are doing is offering you the OME coils or their "custom coil" for the rear. Lots of people already have the OME coils but usually matched to the OME shocks and get rid of the XREAS. There is no reason for it not to work, although you might have a mismatch of dampening between coils and shocks. Don't know about this as I haven't heard anyone going this route.

Just thinking out loud - the coils would need to have the same dampening rate all round otherwise the XREAS might not work correctly - that is, if the coils on the front were softer than the rear, the XREAS may not be able to "balance" the system the way it is intended. When you replace the shocks too, you become more independant on each corner, vs XREAS which is co-dependant on what the opposite shock corner is doing (compressing or extending).

Personally I don't like the idea of combining spacers at one end and extended coils on the other. For the cost of a full OME setup, why not just go that route. It's better than XREAS as you can confirm with pretty much anyone who has swapped over from XREAS.

Hmmmm.....

 

[4RunnerRon]

Thanks for the reply Mark... I did consider scrapping the XREAS, but figured I only have 3500 miles on the truck so far, so I might as well wear it out since I paid extra for it! Besides, I do like the way it handles.

On another note... you make a good point about the potential difference in damping between the cross linked XREAS shocks. I guess that makes sense, but maybe you can help clarify for me... wouldn't a rear spacer installed in the rear preload the spring and change the damping in that case, too? I wonder how big of a difference there is between the spring rate of the Toytec spring and the stock spring with a spacer installed. Both will be altered from stock, just like the fronts (when spacers are installed).

 

[Bluto]

I don't know why they said the rear would sag. The spacer just sits on top of the coil in the rear. It is not a pre-load.


Any lift in the rear with stock shocks will be stiffer. The shock will operate in a higher dampening range. I really did not notice a difference in the rear. Others have. I feel the truck rides better overall.

 

[4RunnerRon]

Bluto, I didn't understand the sagging spring issue, either. I do understand the shocks operating in a different range (since they're extended a coupe inches at rest now). I suppose if you load down the rear with cargo, it will sag due to the weight, so the lifts may compromise the cargo capacity a bit, but it shouldn't sag over time just because. I can't see a spring degrading that quickly, but then again, if I knew what I was talking about, I wouldn't be posting questions!

 

[Expat]

wouldn't a rear spacer installed in the rear preload the spring and change the damping in that case, too?

The rate of dampening would not change, it's still the same shock. I don't believe the shock has progressive dampening but I could be wrong about this. I'll search and see if anyone has commented on this before.

I agree with Bluto that the rear sag comment is strange, and that I noticed no (minimal) difference when I had spacers front and rear.

Just as an aside, if you go the full OME route, you do not have to scrap the XREAS. It just means disconnecting the shocks from the XREAS line and replacing those with individual shocks. You XREAS lines and reserviors can remain attached to the truck frame if you ever wanted to reinstall the XREAS.

Yes, I laugh a little to think I paid for the XREAS then effectively removed this function. However, I still wanted the larger brakes and the hood scoop plus the few minor interior style differences so....LOL

 

[Bluto]

Yes, I laugh a little to think I paid for the XREAS then effectively removed this function. However, I still wanted the larger brakes and the hood scoop plus the few minor interior style differences so....LOL

It is all about the heated mirrors. :biggrin2:


At least on this coast anyway.

 

[4RunnerRon]

Good point. I suppose if I could remove the XREAS system without damaging it and retain it for later use, I might be interested. Hmmmm.... wish the decisions could be easier guys!

 

[Expat]

Good point. I suppose if I could remove the XREAS system without damaging it and retain it for later use, I might be interested. Hmmmm.... wish the decisions could be easier guys!

You won't damage anything. Lots of people have done it. I think most people leave the lines in place as it's just too much effort to remove them completely. I want to buy some nice little caps to fit over the ends of my XREAS lines. Presently they are just closed off with some electrician tape to keep the dirt out. I'm far enough into mods to know I'll very unlikely go back to the XREAS but its there for now, if I ever needed to.

 

[Thai]

Now, this may sound weird, but are you sure you want to lift?? Your new 4runner is just 3500 miles old. Have you tried going with 32" tires?? (aka 265/70/17) Get tires that are aggressive and tough (BFG AT KO or Goodyear Wrangler SilentArmor or even mud-terrains). I would go this route and get some strong sliders. Most people (98%) will find that this is more than adequate for their off-roading needs.

Now, if you go off-roading A LOT over some tough terrain or want much bigger tires, then a lift may be indicated. Bigger tires will need regearing (not available yet). And i would save up and buy a quality lift (OME lift or what Goodtimes has) rather than spacer lift. Many people on this forum initially went spacer, but many have now gone to OME. So, why waste money initially since most people end up with OME later on??

Remember, a lift is not always vice-free. Some people will probably disagree with me on this, but a lift (even a small one) will create significant stress on your front IFS suspension (mainly CV joints/boots), esp. if you do take it off-road over tough terrain. Crack CV boots is not rare with lifts. Remember, you are altering the front suspension geometry from what Toyota engineers have designed. From what i read from many owners, most lifts do in fact degrade ride quality...that is, stock ride/handling quality is about as good as it gets.

Take your time and think about it carefully. I highly encourage that you read as much as you can from different people regarding lifts.

My opinion (and playing devil's advocate regarding lift)

 

[4RunnerRon]

Thai, you definitely have some good points there. I guess I should have mentioned that, if my off-roading interests grow to the point where I would need some major mods (like GoodTimes), I would probably shy away from modding the 4Runner and invest in a dedicated trail rig, like an 85 Yota pickup or 1st gen 4Runner. My goals for lifting the 4Runner do include 265/70/17 tires and perhaps sliders, but if I were to lift it, I would keep it moderate. I've even been considering a spacer lift even slightly less than the standard 3" front/2" rear, just for some tire clearance and a better stance. I'm actually heading out the door to go to Hollister Hills for the first time and I'm giving some of the trails a shot stock. I'll be sure to be careful since my truck is new, but I guess this trip will give me a better idea of what I want. So I'll post when I get back and hopefully have a clearer idea on all of this. Thanks for the opinions!

 

[Thai]

Well, how did it go??? Did you go off-roading with a bunch of FJC's?? I saw a post on the FJ forum about a similar meet with one 4runner in it. Is that yours?

 

[4RunnerRon]

Yup, that was me. I'll be posting pics here in just a little while. I'll post them in my Hollister Hills thread, though. I have some new pics that weren't on the FJC forum, but that was the group I went with. Tons of fun!

 

[mjfrank]

Coming from the coil sprung Jeep world (99 Wrangler), spring sagging can be caused by overcompressing the coil springs due to lifting without installing taller bumpstops. Coil springs are only designed to compress to a point before they start having a permanent loss of height. If you install larger springs, or spacers on top of the springs, without extending the bumpstops, you could theoretically compress the springs beyond what they were designed to be, resulting in eventual sagging.

Most all Jeep lifts over two or three inches come with longer bumpstops. Do any of the 4R kits include them?

--Mike

 

[mjos]

I vote you scrap the XREAS. I did and now enjoy the new ride SO much better. The XREAS does the seasaw motion going down the road. The Donahoes are awesome.

 

[mjos]

You won't damage anything. Lots of people have done it. I think most people leave the lines in place as it's just too much effort to remove them completely. I want to buy some nice little caps to fit over the ends of my XREAS lines. Presently they are just closed off with some electrician tape to keep the dirt out. I'm far enough into mods to know I'll very unlikely go back to the XREAS but its there for now, if I ever needed to.

The XREAS hardlines are a piece of cake to remove. In fact, the whole system drops right out with simple hand tools. Just make sure all 4 tires are off the ground and hanging with the suspension unloaded. Had mine off in about an hour.

 

[4RunnerRon]

Coming from the coil sprung Jeep world (99 Wrangler), spring sagging can be caused by overcompressing the coil springs due to lifting without installing taller bumpstops. Coil springs are only designed to compress to a point before they start having a permanent loss of height. If you install larger springs, or spacers on top of the springs, without extending the bumpstops, you could theoretically compress the springs beyond what they were designed to be, resulting in eventual sagging.

Most all Jeep lifts over two or three inches come with longer bumpstops. Do any of the 4R kits include them?

--Mike

Most spacer kits I've seen do not come with new bumpstops.

 

[4RunnerRon]

I vote you scrap the XREAS. I did and now enjoy the new ride SO much better. The XREAS does the seasaw motion going down the road. The Donahoes are awesome.

Yeah, well after much research, I think I've decided against spacer lifts, at least for my anal retentive preferences. Your setup with Donahoe front and OME rear is tempting, but I'm still curious if Donahoe will come out with a rear setup so I can have a matched set from the same manufacturer.

I saw your posting with pics of your setup and REALLY like it. It's surprising to me that people are enjoying the lift and how it handles BETTER than the XREAS system. Go figure...

By the way, do you have any other pics of your ride. Maybe some closeups of the suspension parts installed?

 

[Expat]

...but I'm still curious if Donahoe will come out with a rear setup so I can have a matched set from the same manufacturer.

You might like to follow THIS DONAHOE THREAD They are making a rear setup. Just a matter of time.

 

[Expat]

The XREAS hardlines are a piece of cake to remove. In fact, the whole system drops right out with simple hand tools. Just make sure all 4 tires are off the ground and hanging with the suspension unloaded. Had mine off in about an hour.

True enough, although those of us who have Hanna sliders find it a hassle. Gotta remove the sliders first. And for those who have USED their sliders, the U-bolts do tend to get a bit bentup which makes re-installing a challenge (lining up the bolt holes).

Not withstanding that, I removed my lines and reserviors early this week and sold them off.

Now just got to re powdercoat the sliders and get new U-bolts from Hanna.