Another rear window thread

[lastlaugh]

I'm having a problem with the rear window of my 94.
When I use the center console switch:
I can hear a faint click when I push it up. If I try to roll it down, nothing.

The key does nothing at all in either direction. I have tried holding the rear wiper in the up position, but still nothing. The window is currently stuck in the up position. I have looked at the "Rear window cheap tricks" post, but Im not sure how to remove the interior panels without damaging them. The one thing I can see from the storage compartment on the drivers side is a Uhaul brake light converter. The worries me. Uhaul already completely fried the electrical system in my wife's Outlander....when it was only a year old! Any tips to help me narrow down what it could be? And how to remove the body panels?

 

[lastlaugh]

Ok, i spent an entire day with my multimeter trying to diagnose the problem. I narrowed it down to what I thought was the relay. So, I went out to a junkyard today and got another one for 20$. Still doesn't work. If i cross the wires up to the motor, it rolls both ways fine. Both the switch and ket roll the window up just fine, but not down. I can hear and feel the relay clicking in both directions. Anyone have any tips on where to look next? Ive read the "cheap tricks" article till Im blue in the face and I'm stuck. Any help would he greatly appreciated!

 

[Pyroboy]

Get a circuit diagram and start checking all the interlocks to the motor.

One quick thing, make sure the tailgate is fully latched "2 clicks" on both sides. There are interlocks on the latches and the motor will not operate if the latches are partially closed.

 

[RAD4Runner]

If i cross the wires up to the motor, it rolls both ways fine. Both the switch and key roll the window up just fine, but not down. I can hear and feel the relay clicking in both directions.

Clicking in both directions suggests that relay is trying to send power to the motor, but power is not going to the motor. Did you measure voltage to both up & down wires to the motor when you hear the click?

Get a circuit diagram and start checking all the interlocks to the motor. One quick thing, make sure the tailgate is fully latched "2 clicks" on both sides. There are interlocks on the latches and the motor will not operate if the latches are partially closed.

Question to those who have looked INTO the window relay:
I believe (only believe - because I've never looked inside one) the clicking is from the UP or Down relay. Do you guys know whether the interlocks:
(1) Prevent the Up/Down relay from energizing at all, OR
(2) Up/Down relay energizes to send power to Up/Down wires of motor regardless, but interlocks interrupt that power to the motor?

 

[Pyroboy]

The relays most likely feed the motor directly. Their purpose is to handle the high current load of the motor while all the switches an interlocks only see the lower 'control' current. You need to look at a circuit diagram from a FSM or Haynes manual to know what is going on. You may have a burned contact in one of the relays in the control box. It will click but cannot pass power. It may be possible to clean it. It sounds like the 'down' relay is the problem as the motor only has two wires an the polarity is reversed to maked it move in different directions. Junkyard rely may have had the same problem. Take the cover off it and feel which relay clicks to get you looking in the right place.

 

[lastlaugh]

Ok, another few hours troubleshooting with the multimeter. Everything is still pointing to the relay. I have power going to the relay, and power leaving the relay when I use both the switch and the key to roll the window up. The problem is, I have no power from the relay when I try to roll the window down from either the switch or the key. The only thing it can be is the relay.....The junkyard must have sold me a bad one. I guess I'll just get a known good one from ebay.

 

[2ndgengreenred]

Ok, another few hours troubleshooting with the multimeter. Everything is still pointing to the relay. I have power going to the relay, and power leaving the relay when I use both the switch and the key to roll the window up. The problem is, I have no power from the relay when I try to roll the window down from either the switch or the key. The only thing it can be is the relay.....The junkyard must have sold me a bad one. I guess I'll just get a known good one from ebay.

I had the same symptoms and thought it was my relay too, after trying 2 or 3 different ones i gave up on that. I read somewhere (either on this forum somewhere or in my Haynes book) that the whole circuit is tied into the rear wiper motor setup. Mice had chewed my wires and i got a whole new wiring harness out of the junk yard, as soon as the wiper motor was able to complete the circuit everything worked.

 

[RAD4Runner]

... power leaving the relay when I use both the switch and the key to roll the window up..

Meaning without anything connected to outputs, you get voltage at output pins? (For example, in a 22RE those would be Pins 1& 3)

The problem is, I have no power from the relay when I try to roll the window down from either the switch or the key...

Do you mean that, with the motor connected to the relay, relay clicks and window is supposed to go up/down but you do not see voltage at either output pins?

Schematic below is example only, because it is for a different model truck...

 

[lastlaugh]

Meaning without anything connected to outputs, you get voltage at output pins? (For example, in a 22RE those would be Pins 1& 3)


Do you mean that, with the motor connected to the relay, relay clicks and window is supposed to go up/down but you do not see voltage at either output pins?

Schematic below is example only, because it is for a different model truck...

Yes, you are correct on both questions.

 

[lastlaugh]

I had the same symptoms and thought it was my relay too, after trying 2 or 3 different ones i gave up on that. I read somewhere (either on this forum somewhere or in my Haynes book) that the whole circuit is tied into the rear wiper motor setup. Mice had chewed my wires and i got a whole new wiring harness out of the junk yard, as soon as the wiper motor was able to complete the circuit everything worked.

That is what I originally thought my problem was also. But, if I cross the wires to the motor and roll the window down, then reconnect the plug to the motor, it rolls up just fine. The rear wiper detect switch would also prevent it from rolling up too would it not?

 

[RAD4Runner]

...Their purpose is to handle the high current load of the motor while all the switches an interlocks only see the lower 'control' current...

Thanks Pyro Boy! Yeah; IF Toyota electrical engineers did it right, this is exactly what I'd expect it to do. Too bad I could not find internal schematic of the door control module.

Yes, you are correct on both questions.

In this case, most likely like Pyro Boy is saying... burned or bad contact in "down" relay...

...You may have a burned contact in one of the relays in the control box. It will click but cannot pass power. It may be possible to clean it. It sounds like the 'down' relay is the problem... as the motor only has two wires an the polarity is reversed to make it move in different directions. Junkyard rely may have had the same problem. Take the cover off it and feel which relay clicks to get you looking in the right place.

 

[lastlaugh]

yeah, PyroBoy's suggestion seems to be the only thing it can be. I havent tried isolating the rear window switch because it works just fine rolling the window up. As often as these seem to go bad, I'm thinking the junk yard one was probably bad too. The relays on ebay are 50 tho (which is a LOT better than the 697$ the dealer quoted me!)

 

[giro]

What about the wiring from the relay board plug to the motor. If one of those is missing some insulation and is grounded out, or broken, that could also cause it. The DC motor would only need power on one of the wires with the other one going to ground, so it could basically just use one of the 2 wires. That would explain why it works one direction, but not the other. And why it works when you purposefully cross the wires.

Looks like my back window motor is still having trouble. I just replaced it with a junkyard one that looked to be in much better condition (driver's side rear), but with some cold (~20°F, so nothing too low) weather it's slow again. But my battery is down a little in the cold and after sitting idle for 2 weeks at xmas, so getting that topped off might be enough. With the old one it would stall going up (and needing a helping hand) in these conditions, so it's a little better. There's lots of things I could start replacing to potentially make it work better (switches, wiring, relays, motor, connectors), but as long as it continues to work at some level while in our local weather conditions I'll probably just leave it.

 

[lastlaugh]

What about the wiring from the relay board plug to the motor. If one of those is missing some insulation and is grounded out, or broken, that could also cause it. The DC motor would only need power on one of the wires with the other one going to ground, so it could basically just use one of the 2 wires. That would explain why it works one direction, but not the other. And why it works when you purposefully cross the wires.

I'm not getting voltage from the relay at all when I try to roll the window down. I did ohm the wires out for connectivity, and they are fine. Sorry I didnt mention that before.

 

[giro]

I'm not getting voltage from the relay at all when I try to roll the window down. I did ohm the wires out for connectivity, and they are fine. Sorry I didnt mention that before.

I thought you said you were getting voltage from the relay at the relay board plug. I must have misread.

If not, it could be just the relay. When mine went out (for the window-up relay), it was a slow drawn out outage, with it first not working (occasionally, and then more frequently) with the rear key switch. With the 4runner on there is a bit more voltage in the system, and that would normally make it work (from the inside switch). And colder weather would make it more problematic (lower battery voltage, harder rubber around window?, less power from the window motor, etc).

Did you have things slowly start to not work, or did it all go out at once?

If slowly, and if it was similar to what I faced, maybe your down relay (on original board) was all the way out, and the up one was partially out. Otherwise, there must also be something wrong with that rear switch.

Either way, you're looking at multiple problems (2 relays, or a relay and a switch).