Another Tire Question - 5th Gen Towing

[Joe-Runner]

Hello Forum,

I've read over all the threads on here and don't hear many first hand stories of what tires users have had while towing with their 5th gen.

I've got a '17 TRD OR Prem that I plan on towing a 5K lb camper (once fully loaded) around Alaska this next summer. I also plan on doing some off roading... I mean... it is Alaska.... However, I'm more concerned about the towing aspect. Do I NEED E-rated tires (or load index 118+) to tow a 5K lb camper with my rig? Would some 115 load index tires cut it? I plan on sticking to stock size BTW. What has been your experience?

p.s. I sold the Dunlop OEMs because they are complete garbage. I'm running Blizzaks for winter right now.

 

[(none)]

of course you do not need E-rated tires to tow 5k. Your 4R is rated to tow 5k on stock p-rated tires.

I towed over 5k with the stock dunlops, i didn't have an issue. I've towed over 5k with the cooper Maxx s/t i currently have with no issue. If you want the best ride and mileage, stick with a p-rated tire. If you want an LT tire, go with a c-rated tired. BFG K02 comes in c-rated at OEM size. My C-rated coopers are just slightly larger (255/75), but narrower. No rubbing or trimming required at stock height. Goodyear duratracs have some p-rated tires in and around the stock sizes. The Nitto Terragrapplers come on the Pros, right? People seem to like those tires, i have no experience with them. Plenty of choices, i'd go as you are already planning, to stick with the stock or near stock size (and weight), run a p or c-rated tire.

Are you planning to add airbags and/or a trans cooler as well? I assume you've added a brake controller.

 

[Joe-Runner]

of course you do not need E-rated tires to tow 5k. Your 4R is rated to tow 5k on stock p-rated tires.

I towed over 5k with the stock dunlops, i didn't have an issue. I've towed over 5k with the cooper Maxx s/t i currently have with no issue. If you want the best ride and mileage, stick with a p-rated tire. If you want an LT tire, go with a c-rated tired. BFG K02 comes in c-rated at OEM size. My C-rated coopers are just slightly larger (255/75), but narrower. No rubbing or trimming required at stock height. Goodyear duratracs have some p-rated tires in and around the stock sizes. The Nitto Terragrapplers come on the Pros, right? People seem to like those tires, i have no experience with them. Plenty of choices, i'd go as you are already planning, to stick with the stock or near stock size (and weight), run a p or c-rated tire.

Are you planning to add airbags and/or a trans cooler as well? I assume you've added a brake controller.

Awesome. Out of all the threads I didn't see anyone saying they towed anything significant with stock tires, or the like. Are the OEM Dunlops load index 113? I've been looking at Kuhmo Road Ventures, Gen Grabber AT2s, Cooper A/T3s, Falken Wildpeaks, Hankooks, and of course, KO2s. :hail: Just so many options.

As far as additional equipment. Yes, I've looked into airbags and brake controller, but not the tranny cooler. As you said, it is supposed to tow 5K stock, so why is a trans cooler needed? What has been your experience?

 

[Ryan1975]

Awesome. Out of all the threads I didn't see anyone saying they towed anything significant with stock tires, or the like. Are the OEM Dunlops load index 113? I've been looking at Kuhmo Road Ventures, Gen Grabber AT2s, Cooper A/T3s, Falken Wildpeaks, Hankooks, and of course, KO2s. :hail: Just so many options.

As far as additional equipment. Yes, I've looked into airbags and brake controller, but not the tranny cooler. As you said, it is supposed to tow 5K stock, so why is a trans cooler needed? What has been your experience?

I've never had any issues with towing around that amount of weight with either of my 4Runners and transmission temperatures.

 

[e60ral]

i've seen my trans temp get to 200 degrees on steep grades without towing anything, i'd definitely get a cooler if i was planning on towing 5k lbs with any kind of regularity

at the very least get something to monitor your trans and TC temps

 

[(none)]

i've seen my trans temp get to 200 degrees on steep grades without towing anything, i'd definitely get a cooler if i was planning on towing 5k lbs with any kind of regularity

at the very least get something to monitor your trans and TC temps

I've never had any issues with towing around that amount of weight with either of my 4Runners and transmission temperatures.

Awesome. Out of all the threads I didn't see anyone saying they towed anything significant with stock tires, or the like. Are the OEM Dunlops load index 113? I've been looking at Kuhmo Road Ventures, Gen Grabber AT2s, Cooper A/T3s, Falken Wildpeaks, Hankooks, and of course, KO2s. :hail: Just so many options.

As far as additional equipment. Yes, I've looked into airbags and brake controller, but not the tranny cooler. As you said, it is supposed to tow 5K stock, so why is a trans cooler needed? What has been your experience?

It is rated, it's just all about how careful and diligent you want to be. Trans temps will be around the 200s pretty easily with the stock cooler, which is integrated into the radiator. I added an air to oil cooler and now average in the 140-150s normally when underway, I've seen up the 180s when in a long pull with a heavy load.
The main thing to remember is the torque converter is what creates your heat. The torque converter only locks on these in 4th and 5th gears (when the gear selector is in "D"), in 4th (when the gear selector is in S4) and only in 5th gear when the gear selector is in S5. That is why Toyota recommends you tow in S4, to keep the rpms up and the torque converter locked.
As noted, if you would rather, get a way to monitor the trans temps (2 are available: pan temp and outlet from the torque converter, which will give you an idea if the TC is locked or not).

 

[spetka]

I just towed my trailer over Thanksgiving week with my 17 SR5. My trailer is dry about 3700, fully loaded I am guessing 4500ish. (used to tow with an Exploder with tow package) One thing I always check is tire pressure. both on the trailer and the TV. I get them pretty close to max, since the max load rating is I believe based on the max tire pressure. But not all the way to max as to allow for increase in pressure as the tires heat up. I would like to get a tranny cooler and airbags(the back was a little "soft"), just to make it a little better of a TV.

 

[Joe-Runner]

Thanks for the input guys. I'm definitely getting a tranny cooler. Now back to my original question:
What kinds of tires did you guys have when towing? How much weight?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[honda99ex]

I've towed with both the OEM Bridgestones and now Hankook ATM RF10s. Anywhere from 3000 to 4500 lbs. Stock everything else.

Thanks for the input guys. I'm definitely getting a tranny cooler. Now back to my original question:
What kinds of tires did you guys have when towing? How much weight?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[dawudih]

When I changed to an E rated BFG KO2, they were 40% more weight vs the stock tires. I defiantly felt the extra weight just driving around town without a trailer. Switched them out to a P metric tires, muuuuuch better. Also, removed my Bilstein 5100 shocks. I forgot how nice these cars drive bone stock. I would say the stock tires would be better for towing & everything else, other than extreme terrain.

 

[Joe-Runner]

When I changed to an E rated BFG KO2, they were 40% more weight vs the stock tires. I defiantly felt the extra weight just driving around town without a trailer. Switched them out to a P metric tires, muuuuuch better. Also, removed my Bilstein 5100 shocks. I forgot how nice these cars drive bone stock. I would say the stock tires would be better for towing & everything else, other than extreme terrain.

Yeah, multiple reviewers around the net say the heavier tires sap a significant amount of power. I looked up the stats for various 265/70r17 tires:
Stock Dunlops = 2̶4̶l̶b̶s̶ 39lbs
Hankook ATM RF10 = 38.6lbs
Cooper AT/3s = 41lbs
Falken Wildpeaks = 46.5lbs
BFG KO2 E-rated = 53.4lbs

I was really leaning towards the Falkens because the reviews are amazing and I like the looks, but they are definitely up there in weight as well. The Hankooks have some outstanding reviews as well, and they're cheaper, but I'm just worried about the lower index rating (113 vs. 115 for Falkens). Decisions decisions.

O̶n̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶e̶.̶.̶.̶.̶ ̶I̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶b̶e̶l̶i̶e̶v̶e̶ ̶h̶o̶w̶ ̶l̶i̶g̶h̶t̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶t̶o̶c̶k̶ ̶D̶u̶n̶l̶o̶p̶s̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶!̶

 

[1jzgte]

Yeah, multiple reviewers around the net say the heavier tires sap a significant amount of power. I looked up the stats for various 265/70r17 tires:
Stock Dunlops = 24lbs
Hankook ATM RF10 = 38.6lbs
Cooper AT/3s = 41lbs
Falken Wildpeaks = 46.5lbs
BFG KO2 E-rated = 53.4lbs

I was really leaning towards the Falkens because the reviews are amazing and I like the looks, but they are definitely up there in weight as well. The Hankooks have some outstanding reviews as well, and they're cheaper, but I'm just worried about the lower index rating (113 vs. 115 for Falkens). Decisions decisions.

On a side note.... I can't believe how light the stock Dunlops are!

There's no way the stock dunlops are only 24.5 lbs. What's your source? Not that it really matter because theyre junk anyway. Look into the Michelin Defender LTX's 265/70/17's weigh in at 39lbs and the 255/75/17's weigh 38lbs. If youre like me and can sacrifice appearance for performance then i'd go with the 255 size. Theyre quite a bit cheaper than the 265. Load index for both sizes are listed at 115.

 

[Joe-Runner]

There's no way the stock dunlops are only 24.5 lbs. What's your source? Not that it really matter because theyre junk anyway. Look into the Michelin Defender LTX's 265/70/17's weigh in at 39lbs and the 255/75/17's weigh 38lbs. If youre like me and can sacrifice appearance for performance then i'd go with the 255 size. Theyre quite a bit cheaper than the 265. Load index for both sizes are listed at 115.

Dunlops on Amazon. Scroll down to Technical Details: https://smile.amazon.com/Dunlop-Gra...d=1512365173&sr=8-1&keywords=265/70r17+dunlop

But now I just looked it up on TireRack and it shows 39lbs :hatsoff: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...&tireModel=Grandtrek+AT20&partnum=67SR7AT20V2

My bad. I guess Amazon isn't the most reliable source for this info :noidea:

Michelin definitely makes some great tires. I have been planning to stick with stock size but am open to ideas. What's the benefits to taller and skinnier? Less surface to ground = better mileage?? Better handling somehow??

 

[1jzgte]

Dunlops on Amazon. Scroll down to Technical Details: https://smile.amazon.com/Dunlop-Gra...d=1512365173&sr=8-1&keywords=265/70r17+dunlop

But now I just looked it up on TireRack and it shows 39lbs :hatsoff: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tire...&tireModel=Grandtrek+AT20&partnum=67SR7AT20V2

My bad. I guess Amazon isn't the most reliable source for this info :noidea:

Michelin definitely makes some great tires. I have been planning to stick with stock size but am open to ideas. What's the benefits to taller and skinnier? Less surface to ground = better mileage?? Better handling somehow??

That's the theory at least. I figured since 255/75's were cheaper than 265/70's by almost 20 dollars a tire, why not give it a shot. I don't do any wild off roading but i doubt a 10mm width will affect anything. I doubt mpg will be better but i get a free .45 inch lift and my odo will register fewer miles at 630 revolutions per mile vs 638 revs per mile.

Again its all theory, I won't be able to try this setup for a few more years since my bridgestone alenza plus's have lots of tread left.

 

[Joe-Runner]

That's the theory at least. I figured since 255/75's were cheaper than 265/70's by almost 20 dollars a tire, why not give it a shot. I don't do any wild off roading but i doubt a 10mm width will affect anything. I doubt mpg will be better but i get a free .45 inch lift and my odo will register fewer miles at 630 revolutions per mile vs 638 revs per mile.

Again its all theory, I won't be able to try this setup for a few more years since my bridgestone alenza plus's have lots of tread left.

Cool. Bigger tires certainly do look a bit sexier on these rigs. It sounds like you have already seen it, but just for your and others' reference 1engineer made a fantastic quick reference diagram for 5th gen tire sizes: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/156378-going-bigger-5th-gen-tire-fitment-guide.html

As far as costs go, I am so isolated up here in central Alaska that I have very few options for tire purchases. I can go with local places and get what I want but the prices are :wow2: I could go with Walmart and get them for slightly cheaper. But, the overall best prices though are through Amazon. My searches so far are actually showing the 265/70r17s coming in a bit cheaper than the 255s. In fact, Hankooks are more than $30 cheaper!

 

[dawudih]

Cool. Bigger tires certainly do look a bit sexier on these rigs. It sounds like you have already seen it, but just for your and others' reference 1engineer made a fantastic quick reference diagram for 5th gen tire sizes: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/156378-going-bigger-5th-gen-tire-fitment-guide.html

For tires, stick with stock size ( I didn't), P metrics (I didn't), M+S, not AT (I didn't), stock suspension (I didn't), and no wheel spacers (I didn't).
Or you can spend about $1000 to end up back to stock (I did). All those upgrades really look nice, but man they're terrible for the drivability. On the plus side, I did learn a lot.

 

[OregonTrail]

Not 5000 lbs towing but tow this all the time, full load with coolers maybe 2800-2900 lbs +/-. I have stock size tires but they are "E" rated Duratracs and sure have been happy with them. Drives great and never noticed any issues with them being a bit heavier.

 

[Joe-Runner]

Not 5000 lbs towing but tow this all the time, full load with coolers maybe 2800-2900 lbs +/-. I have stock size tires but they are "E" rated Duratracs and sure have been happy with them. Drives great and never noticed any issues with them being a bit heavier.

Very nice looking rig and boat. You have a tranny cooler? Tranny temp monitor? Brake controller? Air bags?

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[Joe-Runner]

For tires, stick with stock size (I didn't), P metrics (I didn't), M+S, not AT (I didn't), stock suspension (I didn't), and no wheel spacers (I didn't).

Haha, I hear ya. I'm also trying to keep it close-ish to stock. Engineers decide on the specific suspension height, wheels, and tire size for a reason. Doesn't hurt to make small changes to it, but I like the stock sizes for my rig anyway.

When you say M+S not A/T what tires are you referring to in particular? Im pretty sure both the Falkens and Hankooks I'm looking at fall in the A/T category.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[e60ral]

fuel efficiency and roll over prevention are probably the reason for a lot of that, not to maximize any kind of performance