any full-frontal bumper protection?

[nusrat]

Yet Another Bumper Guard Thread, after spending several hours finding & reading all the ones (I think) which mention "corners"...
I'm just looking for "cosmetic deflection" (shopping carts, incompetent low-speed parkers, etc.) vs. protection against deer, 15mph colliisions, etc.
I've read all the posts saying "get a full steel bumper", etc., but not interested in spending $1500 on something which makes a 4runner look like a Marine beach-assault landing-craft.

I don't even need a full-height brush guard or grille guard; something that covers only the "chesty" bits below the level of the Toyota logo would be fine. But the biggest problem I'm having in finding what I want, is that none of them cover all the way down to the bottom of the bumper, below the DRLs / fog-lights. And none of them wrap around the sides far enough to be geometrically flush with the left & right sides.

A few days ago I was parked at Mickey D's to get some coffee, two spaces away from a Montero which had a guard something like I'm describing. I went inside and asked the few customers there, and the manager, but nobody admitted to owning the Montero.
Then, when I returned to my car, I noticed something: the only part of the Montero which *wasn't* covered by the guard was the bottom corners -- and, ironically, the unprotected parts had multiple dings & scratches.

 

[4RunnerStarv]

Found this tread a while back, but i couldn't take the drive to buy this grill/light bar, which is exactly what I was looking for before ... kind of what you are looking for ?

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...or-lightbar-lights-awning-more-boston-ma.html


Avid Light bar its called i don't think they make them for our gen 4Runner anymore thou

 

[techno]

I've never seen anything like what you're describing unfortunately. Also never read of anyone looking for one either. I suspect it's because nothing that low down on the bumpers is important enough in regards to vehicle function. But if you want pure cosmetic protection, anything you put covering it will look like shit anyway and get dinged up too, defeating the purpose.
I think you'll need to go custom if you're set on getting soemthing. Good luck.

 

[nusrat]

...kind of what you are looking for ?
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/sale-...or-lightbar-lights-awning-more-boston-ma.html

That would do it if the center section (which tops-out just below the hood) extended around past the fog lights.

 

[nusrat]

I've never seen anything like what you're describing unfortunately.

Yeah, I seem to get a lot of that, also in other forums.

never read of anyone looking for one either. I suspect it's because nothing that low down on the bumpers is important enough in regards to vehicle function.

Actually, while doing my homework on this before originally posting, I saw a lot of posts from drivers who seemed to be looking only for cosmetic protection.

But if you want pure cosmetic protection, anything you put covering it will look like shit anyway...

I never meant that a grille-guard or brush-guard wouldn't be an acceptable solution; there are lots of those that don't look like POSs. I just meant that cosmetic protection of the body-parts is all I care about.

...and get dinged up too, defeating the purpose.

Well, that *is* my purpose, i.e. making the mod be sacrificial to protect the factory bumper. But thanks for your thoughts.

 

[techno]

Have you considered using those thick plastic/vinyl films that can be applied to hoods, fender and bumpers? They seem to do a good job against stones?

 

[nusrat]

...plastic/vinyl films...seem to do a good job against stones

I saw discussions of those in this forum, but I don't think they would protect against another car which is being carelessly or incompetently maneuvered in a parking space. (And I'm thinking I might use one of those films even after getting a brush-guard, just for the reason you mention, since stones and other thrown road-stuff *will* get through a brush-guard.) I even saw posts about having Rhino Liner applied, but I don't think even that would handle the parking problem (and the photos of that really DO look like sh*t). And the consensus seems to be that repainting or replacing the entire bumper is the only way to adequately address any serious scratches or scrapes -- people who've tried lesser solutions talk about the materials repeatedly peeling and needing to be re-done.

 

[Inv4drZm]

The only way to get any sort of real protection on the front end is to buy a full steel bumper. Any sort of tubing that wraps around that far will get smashed in anyway. Not to mention, the cost it would take to have a local fabricator make something like that would be near full steel bumper territory.

With that said, how expensive is it to repaint or buy a new painted plastic bumper? A couple hundred? How many times do you plan on having to replace it? It doesn't serve a huge purpose, your truck can function without it completely if needed.

 

[nusrat]

The only way to get any sort of real protection on the front end is to buy a full steel bumper.

Not looking for "real protection" against non-trivial bumps etc., just against events necessitating re-painting.

tubing that wraps around that far will get smashed in anyway.

As I said above, that's the idea, a "sacrificial" component.

the cost it would take to have a local fabricator make something like that

Not looking for custom, just asking if anyone has seen an after-market part like what I described.

how expensive is it to repaint or buy a new painted plastic bumper?

More hassle than I want to deal with if I can avoid it. I'm willing to live with a damaged brush-guard.

new painted plastic bumper... your truck can function without it completely if needed.

It can also function with dozens of scratches, dings, and bird-sh*t all over it, but I'm not willing to. There are a lot of posts by drivers looking for a brush-guard or bull-guard *solely* for the purpose of "armoring" against parking-space damage.

Also, I'd bet there are lots of state-troopers and DMVs which will *not* accept going "without it completely" (assuming that you're referring to the bumper itself).

 

[nusrat]

btw, I've been looking for this on-and-off for weeks, and have seen a lot of brush-guards which come close -- https://www.google.com/search?q=4ru...e+guard"|"grill+guard"|"brush+guard"&tbm=isch
The problem is that all the ones I've seen (so far) *do* wrap around the sides far enough, but don't extend below the headlights (or vice-versa).

(edit) In fact, the WAAG : FrontRunner would be perfect if it were just a *little* taller & a *little* wider.

(edit) Risking embarassing myself here by (further?) revealing my ignorance... Several *rear* bumper pics in this http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-gen-t4rs/25752-brush-guards.html thread demonstrate close-to-full bumper-only protection.

 

[wadle5]

I saw discussions of those in this forum, but I don't think they would protect against another car which is being carelessly or incompetently maneuvered in a parking space. (And I'm thinking I might use one of those films even after getting a brush-guard, just for the reason you mention, since stones and other thrown road-stuff *will* get through a brush-guard.) I even saw posts about having Rhino Liner applied, but I don't think even that would handle the parking problem (and the photos of that really DO look like sh*t). And the consensus seems to be that repainting or replacing the entire bumper is the only way to adequately address any serious scratches or scrapes -- people who've tried lesser solutions talk about the materials repeatedly peeling and needing to be re-done.

The reality is a brush guard wouldn't help in that situation either. Most 5-10mph accidents and bumps will make easy work of the thin metal most brush guards are made out of. Not only that they will usually cause more damage, then what the designated design of the bumpers to flex and give when impacted. Attached a metal bracket to all of that actually just disperses it moreso over the bumper and outside the original effected area or point of contact. Brush guards are good for just that...driving through some fields with light/heavy brush that gives away to the vehicle. A mobile vehicle even at 5mph running into your brushguard isn't going to prevent the damage, and in fact as we call them in the body shop industry...damage multipliers.
Rhino lining is going to be the same effect. It is only as good as the supporting piece it is adhered to. You have rhino line and someone backs into your plastic bumper that will most likely flex and spider crack and most likely the rhino liner will start to break apart and flake off. You are adamantly against a full on plate bumper, but want something that protects you from vehicle collisions..even a low grade one. Unfortunately the research and design behind the OEM bumper is to give way to prevent further damage, it's also why they put the foam pads behind bumpers to somewhat help with the give.
The reason why replacement is the only option is plastic welding can get expensive and since the entire bumper is plastic painting just a scratch will also be more noticeable.

 

[Inv4drZm]

Not looking for "real protection" against non-trivial bumps etc., just against events necessitating re-painting.

I was trying to say the brush guard won't protect anything if it has to wrap around quite a bit, it would just cave in and crack the bumper anyway. It would have to be designed to have supports through the bumper's lower grille instead of only being bolted to the crossmember above the skid plate. Even then, the side wings would be unsupported so they would need to be made from real beefy tubing.

Being made entirely from tubing, even if it doesn't flex on impact, the other driver's car will likely crumple enough to poke through and scratch your paint. You would need steel sheets as fillers between the tubes or mount the tubes 6" away from your bumper.

Nothing I've seen on the market comes close to this design and I don't think it would look very elegant if it did.

Also, I'd bet there are lots of state-troopers and DMVs which will *not* accept going "without it completely" (assuming that you're referring to the bumper itself).

I assumed you'd be alright with just running the steel crash guard behind the plastic bumper. One could argue the plastic part of the bumper does absolutely nothing in any sort of crash or fender bender. I could be wrong on this point.

 

[nusrat]

Exhibit A, and questions for wadle 5 & Inv4drZm

"Exhibit A" (see photo):

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/4th-g...gure-out-what-bull-bar-grill-guard-i-saw.html It only goes to the top of the bumper, not covering the grill. It went all the way to the sides to give some protection to the fog lights.

(minus the skid-plate, of course).

as we call them in the body shop industry...damage multipliers.

Funny that you mentioned that: a couple of weeks ago I was thinking, "Before I buy anything like this, I'd better take a picture to my 20-year auto-body guy" (and also ask my mechanic how much it would obstruct his work).

Rhino

Sorry, I thought I made it clear that I never considered the Rhino stuff as a legitimate option; I mentioned it only by way of listing things I'd already seen proposed by other people.

why replacement is the only option

Yeah, I understood that, again was just listing the things I'd read.

more damage, then what the designated design of the bumpers to flex and give when impacted... 5mph running into your brushguard isn't going to prevent the damage

Wouldn't that depend on the bendability of the guard, and the distance it protrudes from the body?

Brush guards are good for just that...driving through some fields with light/heavy brush

That reminds me of something I don't understand about using brush-guards at all for brush protection: why would someone care about protecting the headlights, and yet not care about protecting the fog-lights?

btw, another concern: I'd also have to ask GEICO about the insurance implications of aftermarket mods in general, and particularly about anything which might be regarded by an adjuster as a "damage multiplier". And see my following comment to Inv4drZm about human safety...

even if it doesn't flex on impact

Speaking of which, I've been thinking it would actually be better if it were made of something very flexible (or even breakable), like "polycarbonate and polyethylene" (see link), for two reasons: (#1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bullbar discusses how non-flexible guards are a greater threat to pedestrians, and also (#2) that they can affect the airbag impact-sensors. Major liability issues.

other driver's car will likely crumple enough to poke through

As a side note about poking-through, have you guys seen this? "Ouch" doesn't begin to describe it. Look at the driver's seat, and try not to experience sphincter-grip: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/65906-bull-bar-do-you-like-best.html#post557470

it would just cave in and crack the bumper anyway.

See my bendability question to wadle5, enclosed above. Also, I was thinking that if it were made of tubing with some kind of rubbery / cushiony coating, the coating would give at least a little protection against contact between the guard & the body. In fact, I could try enclosing the tubing in water-pipe insulation foam tubes from Home Depot.

One could argue the plastic part of the bumper does absolutely nothing in any sort of crash or fender bender.

I agree, but you know what a**holes badge-wearers and DMV bureaucrats can be.

brush guard won't protect anything if it has to wrap around quite a bit... side wings would be unsupported...

I don't understand -- doesn't a similar logic apply to the ones which wrap around the headlights?

 

[zcruiser]

Carbon fiber wrap.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I don't understand -- doesn't a similar logic apply to the ones which wrap around the headlights?

The ones around the headlights aren't used directly for crash protection like the low-hanging ones you want around the fog lights.

Maybe what you need to do is buy the basic low-hanging bull bar and have a guy weld some tubing around it to protect the lower fog light corners?

When building my truck, my motto has been; if you can't buy it, build it yourself they way you want.

 

[catfishbirddog]

You say "Marine beach-assault landing-craft" like it's a bad thing?! But yeah outside of coating your bumper in bubble wrap, sounds like you know what the cosmetic protection options are. I like the 2nd and 3rd gen ARB bull bar options much more than the 4th (too bulky, I agree) but it's grown on me. There are sleeker options like Demello.

Post pics of whatever you go with.

 

[nusrat]

FOUND IT(?) -- but maybe extinct, or made only for other models

Damn.
Actually, I found two. And learned that the thing closest to what I'm looking for is called a "front runner", although some things with that name aren't wide enough to cover the fog-lights. (I'll feel pretty stupid if people post, "Oh, *that's* what you meant? Oh, yeah, we knew about those all along!".:dance

#1. For Highlander & RAV4. Shown in SS, but I'd get black. I don't care for chrome{ish}-looking things, which is why I preferred the Urban Runner and Limited to other 4Runner sub-models, since they're color-keyed.
http://blackhorseoffroad.com/search.html?q=15TYHGSS

#2. Made for 4th-gen, and possibly actually available. Unfortunately, made only in SS, and I'd guess that the material of the vertical brackets rules out powder-coating.
Product FRTO 711 25 Accessories | Broadfeet®

Took a long time to find two retailers who claim to have it.
Toyota 4Runner Front Runner Bumper Guard - 2003 to 2009 | IDFR.com
http://www.autoaccessoriesgarage.com/Bumpers/Broadfeet-Front-Bumper-Guard?set-vehicle=1&autoselect=1
Now I'm in suspense until Sunday/Monday to see if either retailer actually has it. {Sigh...}

Meanwhile, a couple of questions to people reading this...

Q1: Your ideas for making a stainless-steel surface look black, without ruining it? ("Duct tape" doesn't qualify!:dance I thought maybe that body-film stuff, but can that be applied without leaving visible seams? Are there any options which might provide a little protection against scratching of the 4Runner's paint if the front-runner contacts the paint in a minor accident?

Q2: That part is made for a lot of other makes & models. Oddly, most of the pics of those make it look like the part extends further toward the outer footprint of the vehicle than it does on the one which fits the 4th-gen. My manual says the overall width of my truck is 75 inches, which I assume includes the fender flares. The 4th-gen BroadFeet part is 67 inches wide, and I'm assuming that this is a straight-line measurement between the two outer ends, i.e. not the length following the bends of the tubing. Now, the corresponding BroadFeet part which is made for the Highlander (2008) is several inches wider than the 4th-gen part. If I wanted to use the Highlander part (to get the extra width), I realize that it wouldn't match the geometry of the 4th-gen's fat-lip bumper. But it might work, if the front-to-rear length of the undercarriage mounting section is long enough.
But the bigger question for doing that is: does anyone here happen to know if the side-to-side spacing of the undercarriage mounting points on the Highlander is the same as on the 4th-gen?

 

[TheFauxFox]

Those are great for under 5mph fender benders (shopping carts etc) but driving on the road (where the majority of your driving is probably over 30mph) those are damage multipliers, the mounting point down low on the frame acts as a fulcrum making it very easy to bend the top part into your grille and critical components behind it (radiator, etc)

 

[nusrat]

conflict of interest

Went to see my long-time auto-body guy, and he leaned toward the "damage multiplier" view. Then called my insurer (GEICO), and they said the "damage multiplier" potential wouldn't affect anything about my making a claim on my collision coverage. The only theoretical difference would be that, if a claim might seek reimbursement for an aftermarket market part, then GEICO could ask for a higher premium. But when I told them that the part itself was worth only about $300, they said that it was too small to affect the premium.

And GEICO sees nothing in "the rules" which would affect their response to a liability claim by an injured party, even though wikipedia says that bumper protectors aggravate pedestrian injuries.

So I'm thinking, from a purely selfish view...
my collision deductible is $500. If any body contact (either from another vehicle or from a stationary object) results in "damage multiplier" from the aftermarket part, I'm worse off only if the total damage is $500 or less. Anything more than $500, and the insurance covers it. OTOH, if the contact is light enough not to make the aftermarket part touch the factory body, then I'm better off than not having the aftermarket part.