Any idea why no manual transmission in the current 4Runners?

[T.Rock]

I've read about i-eloop, but it didn't sound like it would have a significant benefit. I guess it must help, or they wouldn't put it in their cars.

Well, look at it this way--- The i-eloop system gives Mazda 2 more mpg on both city and highway driving, according to the EPA fuel economy ratings. Other than the i-eloop system, the cars are 100% identical. So that's definitely a significant difference, but the real question is the payback period. The extra money you have to spend on the i-eloop system will eventually be paid back by a lower fuel bill, but with gas prices declining so much lately, that could take twice as long as expected. Hell, I paid just under $2/gal for gas today. It wasn't that long ago that gas was at $4/gal in my area.

 

[dougw133]

Old thread...However the lack of a Manual Transmission has kept me out of a 4runner for years. I had a 96 5 speed I loved. I drove it until the body rotted off in the Pennsylvania salt. I understand the low sales numbers back in 2000. However, there has been a resurgence. With really the last two TRUE SUV frames left 4runner/wrangler only one offers a manual transmission. I cannot for the life of me understand why with all these new "off road" marketed models like the TRD Pro line, why they wouldn't offer it. The Tacoma still sells very well with the manual transmission. I would go out and buy a 4runner today if it had the option.

Additionally, they already have the drive train from the Tacoma. It's not like they have to go out and design a proprietary transmission etc.. I was at the dealer looking at a Tacoma yesterday and said "wish they had a 6 speed in the 4runner". He said "yeah me too, you'd be surprised how many people ask about it." At least in the TRD Pro.

I don't know what kind of focus groups they poll or how they ultimately make these decisions when re designing etc..I'm hoping they decide to come back and offer the option some day.

 

[paddlenbike]

^^ Unfortunately, we are the minority. I refuse to own an automatic car, so my last purchase was an electric car that only has 1-gear. I either need to shift my own gears (manual) or not have any gears to shift like an EV.

You might enjoy this recent article about this issue:
The Nissan Maxima Has Jumped The Shark

 

[amalik]

There are no technical challenges preventing a 6speed in a 4runner, it's about the 'market' demand, not always technology itself.

As horrendous as they are, 5th gens sell like crack.

 

[jwkilgore]

I learned to drive on a manual, and I've driven various manual vehicles from passenger cars to a 15-forward-gear 18-wheeler to an old 3-speed 40 Landcruiser.

My experience:
- having to constantly work a manual clutch sucks off road;
- having to constantly work a manual clutch sucks balls in city traffic;
- having to manually work a clutch, shifter, turn signals, etc. sucks sweaty balls in heavy city stop-and-go rush hour traffic, especially driving a manual-shift pickup in Kansas City;
- modern manual transmissions require more repair work than than modern autos (good modern autos last forever, but manuals have wear parts that need servicing);
- putting my 5th gen in 4Lo and manually shifting to desired gear gives me all the control I need, no need for manual clutch;
- once all factors are included, which includes the average modern driver's input, vehicles with modern computer-controlled automatics get better gas mileage than vehicles with manuals;
- it's much easier to teach a new driver in an automatic so you can focus on the fundamentals of steering, starting, stopping, blinkers, etc. without worrying with a manual clutch; but everyone should also learn to drive a manual once the fundamentals are down.

All that said, there's nothing like zipping down curvy mountain roads in a manual-shift roadster.

Daily driver? Auto.
Off-road? Auto.
Zippy sports car? Manual.

 

[wanderMT]

Daily driver? Auto.
Off-road? Auto.
Zippy sports car? Manual.

:high5:

 

[Brique]

My wife wants an audi tt once we pay off the house. Her reaction when i found out they don't offer a manual anymore and told her: "oh, that's bullshit. Now i don't want one."

Guess we'll be looking for an older model, or maybe having a custom shop swap a manual into a newer model...is that even a reasonable possibility?

 

[green_manalishi]

My wife wants an audi tt once we pay off the house. Her reaction when i found out they don't offer a manual anymore and told her: "oh, that's bullshit. Now i don't want one."

Guess we'll be looking for an older model, or maybe having a custom shop swap a manual into a newer model...is that even a reasonable possibility?

Buy a golf? It's the same car without the ridiculous price and styling that screams "I'm a pretentious douche."

 

[Knight-Errant]

KidV gave a good explanation as to why you shouldn’t classify the 4Runner – especially 4th and 5th gens as made for “off-road.” They were designed for the masses (family haulers, mild towing, mall crawlers, etc.) with nods to its off-road heritage.

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. 4runners are certainly off-road vehicles, however there are different types of off-roading.

In the US, the predominant off-road "mentality" typically means wranglers jacked up with with giant tires and rock-crawling. Here it is mostly about building a rig for bragging rights, then going out and proving that you can drive over certain obstacles for bragging rights. Outings are short; most might be same day, or a couple of days, but rarely are folks driving off-road for multiple days.

Outside of the US, the off-road "mentality" is over-landing OR just having a vehicle that is rugged enough to take on rugged "roads" on a daily basis (we have more paved roads in the US that an other country so not typically an issue for most Americans). The 4runner is pretty much a Prado (some videos below of the Prado going though the paces), and if you watch reviews outside of the US people will rave about how good it is out of the box, how it is the "benchmark" for 4x4 testing, and all you might need is a slight lift and different tires to make it perfect for overlanding (which many folks on here do to their 4runners). I think everyone needs to digest that a statement....the Prado(4runner) is the benchmark for 4x4 testing outside of the US. That is a pretty bold statement to make, and outside of the US a sizable amount of people agree with this characterization.

Watching videos from Australia and South Africa will make folks understand that the 4runner is an overland/rough road vehicle, not a rock crawler. Yes, people do that with theirs, and it certainly can be capable if you invest in rock rails, and some armor, but it is rather large to do that (and really that is what wranglers are for). When it comes to off-road, the 4runner is really about transporting people and equipment on long overland journeys, or just traversing rough/rutted/muddy roads, or driving on the beach to get to off the beaten path for a day trip.

In summary, there are many different types of off roading, even with a stock 4runner you can do a heck of a lot, and yes the 4runner is an off-road vehicle )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyqhtd84XVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52_0EluDwVc


Just a hilux and fortuner video...again I'm always impressed at what vehicles are capable of "stock".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi68CR0RIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FsXmDWznWY

 

[Omar RVA]

I'm not sure I agree with this assessment. 4runners are certainly off-road vehicles, however there are different types of off-roading.

In the US, the predominant off-road "mentality" typically means wranglers jacked up with with giant tires and rock-crawling. Here it is mostly about building a rig for bragging rights, then going out and proving that you can drive over certain obstacles for bragging rights. Outings are short; most might be same day, or a couple of days, but rarely are folks driving off-road for multiple days.

Outside of the US, the off-road "mentality" is over-landing OR just having a vehicle that is rugged enough to take on rugged "roads" on a daily basis (we have more paved roads in the US that an other country so not typically an issue for most Americans). The 4runner is pretty much a Prado (some videos below of the Prado going though the paces), and if you watch reviews outside of the US people will rave about how good it is out of the box, how it is the "benchmark" for 4x4 testing, and all you might need is a slight lift and different tires to make it perfect for overlanding (which many folks on here do to their 4runners). I think everyone needs to digest that a statement....the Prado(4runner) is the benchmark for 4x4 testing outside of the US. That is a pretty bold statement to make, and outside of the US a sizable amount of people agree with this characterization.

Watching videos from Australia and South Africa will make folks understand that the 4runner is an overland/rough road vehicle, not a rock crawler. Yes, people do that with theirs, and it certainly can be capable if you invest in rock rails, and some armor, but it is rather large to do that (and really that is what wranglers are for). When it comes to off-road, the 4runner is really about transporting people and equipment on long overland journeys, or just traversing rough/rutted/muddy roads, or driving on the beach to get to off the beaten path for a day trip.

In summary, there are many different types of off roading, even with a stock 4runner you can do a heck of a lot, and yes the 4runner is an off-road vehicle )


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oyqhtd84XVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52_0EluDwVc


Just a hilux and fortuner video...again I'm always impressed at what vehicles are capable of "stock".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfi68CR0RIA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FsXmDWznWY

Respectfully, I believe you are taking my comment out of context. I don't disagree with your points, but in the context of this discussion, OP was asking for a manual transmission for more "off-roading prowess." If he really needed a manual for off-roading prowess he wouldn't be looking at a 5th gen. Videos of the LC Prado have more than made their rounds on this forum and pieces and parts have even been attached to our 5th gens here. But you said it yourself (again here to reiterate):

Watching videos from Australia and South Africa will make folks understand that the 4runner is an overland/rough road vehicle, not a rock crawler. Yes, people do that with theirs, and it certainly can be capable if you invest in rock rails, and some armor, but it is rather large to do that (and really that is what wranglers are for). When it comes to off-road, the 4runner is really about transporting people and equipment on long overland journeys, or just traversing rough/rutted/muddy roads, or driving on the beach to get to off the beaten path for a day trip.

An overland/rough road vehicle does not a "made for off-road" vehicle make.

OA

 

[LandCruiser]

Auto sucks off road.
Auto sucks in traffic.
Not many people can drive a stick.
Toyota truck MTs aren't that great.
Toyota had a massive shitstorm with their T/O bearings failing and screwing Taco and FJC owners (ask me how I know).

I have done almost all the Colorado trails with my lifted auto TE with no issues.

 

[Knight-Errant]

An overland/rough road vehicle does not a "made for off-road" vehicle make.

OA

I don't know...this seems pretty off-road to me

 

[Knight-Errant]

The 4runner does come with a sequential shift mode (clutch-less manual essentially). I realize that this isn't an actual manual, but at least it does give you some degree of control by allowing you to select the gear you want.

 

[Omar RVA]

I don't know...this seems pretty off-road to me

I'm not quite sure what point you're still trying to make. There are plenty of pics right here on this forum of 5th gens doing that and more. It still isn't relevant to the discussion that was had. My post clearly stated that I agreed with you. Then I re-quoted what you wrote and "essentially" rephrased your own finding. Which you took out of context again.

Also, the s-mode is intended to select the highest allowed gear (e.g. staying out of overdrive while towing or limiting to something lower for engine breaking) though I suppose you could row along as if it was a "clutchless" manual - which it is not.

OA

 

[Knight-Errant]

One reason people seem to be forgetting is cost. In the "old-days" there was a noticeable difference between the price of a manual and an automatic transmission. Many people drove manuals because 1) they cost thousands less and 2) you had greater fuel efficiency.

Having automatics cost the same (or close to the same) as a manual is a fairly recent development. Couple that with fuel efficiency now essentially being equal (or better with an auto), and the fact that most people don't know how to drive manual (and don't really care to learn) is pretty much why manuals are on their way out. Frankly it is still pretty amazing that they offer a manual in a car like the accord.

 

[Knight-Errant]

KidV gave a good explanation as to why you shouldn’t classify the 4Runner – especially 4th and 5th gens as made for “off-road.” They were designed for the masses (family haulers, mild towing, mall crawlers, etc.) with nods to its off-road heritage.

All I'm saying is that this statement isn't accurate on a few points: 1) that 4th and 5th gens aren't made to go off road (it is clear from 1000s of photos on this forum that they are) 2) that the 1/2/3 gens were more off road worthy and 3) that somehow the 4th and 5th gen 4Runners have "extra design for the masses" which makes them less off-roadable.

The 4runner formula really hasn't changed. It is a family station wagon that has a good degree of off road ability, built body on frame...and if you sink a good amount of money into it can become really great off road.

Essentially all toyotas, and every 4runner, have been mass produced and designed for the masses...not just 4th and 5th gen 4runners.

Look at this review from '85 where they say it is luxurious (doesn't sound like extreme off road focus)...and it only had 7.7 inches of clearance. Compare that to any present day Subaru that has 8.6 inches (even the XV crosstrek has 8.6...clearly not the BRZ). The current 4runner has 9.6 inches, more articulation, a locking rear diff, crawl control, ATRAC,, multi-terain select, KDSS....off the showroom floor a stock 4runner is worlds ahead of the earlier generations when it comes to off-road ability and capability. The 4runner essentially now has most of the trickle down "trick" off-road technology from the (really not for the masses at $85,000) Land Cruiser.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhpjADoxX-w

Are 1st, 2nd, 3rd gens great off road....well yes...now they are, but mostly because they're really old people do all kinds of mods to them supurb off road. They can do that because, again they're old and beaters and therefore great for off-roading...and because they're beaters people actually take then off road more often, so you see them off roading more often. Who cares if you dent it right?

These ads from earlier generations emphasize "hey, this is great for the family and...antique clock hunting" , because end of the day, all Toyotas are for the masses, and when it become clear that the masses aren't buying a model anymore it gets the ax (FJ cruiser)

Rather than just saying I'm wrong, why don't you please explain why you think 4/5th gens don't have the same capability as 1,2,3 gens? Or please explain why you think 1,2,3 gens aren't built for the masses? Because other than "its bigger" or "its heavier" (which would be weak arguments) or "it doesn't have a solid front axle" (which really isn't needed...and the 1st gen only briefly had one) I'm not seeing it.

An essentially stock 5th gen did the Rubicon trail...if that isn't off road ability, or a car that is designed to go off-road, then you really need to define what parameters you think have to be engineered into a vehicle for it to be considered "made for off road".
2010 Toyota 4Runner Rubicon Trail First Drive

 

[Omar RVA]

Alright buddy, we've crossed our wires enough here. Read the thread that was referenced earlier (nearly 2.5 years ago) when I made that comment. Until then I'm done spending time on this and taking the thread further away from the point. PM me if you need to.

Meanwhile you can continue tilting at windmills (irony at its finest).

OA

 

[apontnack]

not enough demand :/