Any interest in a writeup for 5th gen JBL nav system overhaul?

[DiggetyDan]

if you're upgrading the sound (not the HU) i'd think you'd leave the HU entirely alone, and tap into the JBL amp/DSP located in the passenger-side cargo area, feeding your newly processed (&/or amplified) signals out to the individual speakers from there.



it'd be great if [MENTION=73441]Helix26404[/MENTION] responds, but it looks like he hasn't logged in since 12/31/14.

Doh! I didn't even look at the date of the post.

Yeah, something tells me they might not have taken the best approach. This was a couple years ago so I'm not sure exactly where they took the signals from to feed into the amps. I recall it was a challenge getting a clean signal.

To be honest it never really sounded that stellar, at least not like it should given the quality of the components. In my previous vehicle I had similar speakers and the same subwoofer with an Alpine head unit and it was amazing.

I think I'm going to be swapping out the HU in the near future and just have a completely aftermarket system. Which means I'll have a full JBL Nav system w/ all the speakers available if anyone's interested.

Oh, one other thing for someone contemplating this move, the "Party" feature should be taken into account.

 

[sandcrawler]

Doh! I didn't even look at the date of the post.

Yeah, something tells me they might not have taken the best approach. This was a couple years ago so I'm not sure exactly where they took the signals from to feed into the amps. I recall it was a challenge getting a clean signal.

To be honest it never really sounded that stellar, at least not like it should given the quality of the components. In my previous vehicle I had similar speakers and the same subwoofer with an Alpine head unit and it was amazing.

I think I'm going to be swapping out the HU in the near future and just have a completely aftermarket system. Which means I'll have a full JBL Nav system w/ all the speakers available if anyone's interested.

Oh, one other thing for someone contemplating this move, the "Party" feature should be taken into account.

my experience with "Party Mode" is that it doesn't actually do all that much on the JBL system; hard to even tell if it's on or off.

in contrast, Party Mode makes a pretty obvious difference on the base stereo; it cuts audio to the rear doors and boosts it in the lift-gate.

i'm holding out hope that OP will complete his write-up and return to his thread. or, barring that, someone else who's done it will chime in with their own contributions.

 

[Helix26404]

Sorry guys, I'm here. I got engaged late last year and things have been unbelievably crazy.

Ok, I will definitely do the write-up as there seems to be plenty of interest here.

Just to be clear--I retained all stock functionality, keeping HU in place, BT, voice nav...everything. This can be achieved by taking the OUTPUT of the JBL amp channel by channel and feeding it through 2 JL Audio SSIs, then feeding that signal into a CleanSweep, then into JL amplifier, and finally back into the factory speaker wiring.

You cannot take a "line level" signle out of the HU, because it connects to the JBL in a digital, proprietary connection. So you can either replace the HU and lose all of the factory functionality, or do it this way and retain everything, but get better speakers, more power, etc.

I'll obviously explain more in the writeup, including all of the components I used.

 

[Helix26404]

Oh and Party Mode isn't as elaborate as everyone seems to think it is. It's just a crossover, removing low frequencies from the back and rear speakers and feeding a stronger low frequency signal (or more gain on the output stage) to the subwoofer.

I was able to verify this when I did my project and I'll elaborate in the write-up.

 

[sandcrawler]

Sorry guys, I'm here. I got engaged late last year and things have been unbelievably crazy.

:clap2:congrats! (probably smart that you got these mods completed pre-engagement, btw!)

Just to be clear--I retained all stock functionality, keeping HU in place, BT, voice nav...everything. This can be achieved by taking the OUTPUT of the JBL amp channel by channel and feeding it through 2 JL Audio SSIs, then feeding that signal into a CleanSweep, then into JL amplifier, and finally back into the factory speaker wiring.

You cannot take a "line level" signle out of the HU, because it connects to the JBL in a digital, proprietary connection. So you can either replace the HU and lose all of the factory functionality, or do it this way and retain everything, but get better speakers, more power, etc.

sounds exactly like what i was thinking, so maybe i'm not crazy, after all! :wacko:

I'll obviously explain more in the writeup, including all of the components I used.

looking forward to it. thanks in advance. :cheers:

 

[Helix26404]

Thanks sandcrawler!

Good news is I already had a big portion of it done, so it shouldn't take me more than a week or so to finish.

 

[Bookite]

Pictures

please post pictures with it, if you have them!!!

 

[Ezlife45]

Looking forward to it!

I was hoping it could be as simple to increase the low end by taking the OEM subwoofer outputs, take them as speaker level inputs then into an amp with speaker level inputs out to the sub. Then upgrade to a nicer woofer.

I know this is not what the OP did by a longshot, but this if it works, would possibly be enough to make me happy.

 

[sandcrawler]

any updates?

 

[sandcrawler]

Thanks sandcrawler!

Good news is I already had a big portion of it done, so it shouldn't take me more than a week or so to finish.

here's my "starter" question: how many channels are there, really? JBL says it's a 10-channel amp/DSP but it seems like the system as it's laid out is really only 8 channels: 2 front, 2 rear, 2 liftgate, 2 sub (OEM sub is DVC).

 

[Neauxla]

Please do a write up

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

here's my "starter" question: how many channels are there, really? JBL says it's a 10-channel amp/DSP but it seems like the system as it's laid out is really only 8 channels: 2 front, 2 rear, 2 liftgate, 2 sub (OEM sub is DVC).

It is 10 channels. The front dash and doors are separate channels from the amp. Dash is high pass. Door is low pass. I couldn't figure out the proprietary input from the head unit to the amp so just went with speaker level outs so this is confirmed. I'm not sure how low the doors go. A car stereo shop owner who did not work on my car said he's almost 100% sure it just rolls off on the low end (is not high passed). I used an iphone app RTA and cheap Dayton Audio iphone mic and it looks (and sounds) like the shop owner is correct.

I could not get a strong signal from the speaker level outs to the sub. I was using a cheap PAC line output converter (LOC). I went to the shop to buy a much more expensive Audio Control powered LOC and was explaining my issue to the shop owner. He suggested that I try use the front door speaker outs first and if that didn't play deep enough, spend the $$$ on the Audio Control LOC.

 

[sandcrawler]

It is 10 channels. The front dash and doors are separate channels from the amp. Dash is high pass. Door is low pass. I couldn't figure out the proprietary input from the head unit to the amp so just went with speaker level outs so this is confirmed. I'm not sure how low the doors go. A car stereo shop owner who did not work on my car said he's almost 100% sure it just rolls off on the low end (is not high passed). I used an iphone app RTA and cheap Dayton Audio iphone mic and it looks (and sounds) like the shop owner is correct.

I could not get a strong signal from the speaker level outs to the sub. I was using a cheap PAC line output converter (LOC). I went to the shop to buy a much more expensive Audio Control powered LOC and was explaining my issue to the shop owner. He suggested that I try use the front door speaker outs first and if that didn't play deep enough, spend the $$$ on the Audio Control LOC.

thanks for clearing that up. i was wondering about just running all 8 door channels through an Audio Control LC8i then out directly to speakers (un-"extra"-amplified) simply so i can adjust the speaker levels and better tune the system.

then, in addition, sending the remaining 2 sub channels to a small, signal-sensing monoblock amp to drive an aftermarket sub that fits in the JBL enclosure, which would give me finer adjustment controls for sub too.

along with providing new, adjustable controls for all speakers and enabling better tuning of the system, this would also reduce the load on the JBL amp/DSP (driving only 8, instead of 10 channels), while also being discrete and relatively inexpensive.

making any sense?

 

[Hawaiian4runner]

thanks for clearing that up. i was wondering about just running all 8 door channels through an Audio Control LC8i then out directly to speakers (un-"extra"-amplified) simply so i can adjust the speaker levels and better tune the system.

then, in addition, sending the remaining 2 sub channels to a small, signal-sensing monoblock amp to drive an aftermarket sub that fits in the JBL enclosure, which would give me finer adjustment controls for sub too.

along with providing new, adjustable controls for all speakers and enabling better tuning of the system, this would also reduce the load on the JBL amp/DSP (driving only 8, instead of 10 channels), while also being discrete and relatively inexpensive.

making any sense?

Pretty sure that isn't going to work. The output from the LC8i will be line level and must be amplified before connecting to the speakers.

 

[sandcrawler]

thanks for clearing that up. i was wondering about just running all 8 door channels through an Audio Control LC8i then out directly to speakers (un-"extra"-amplified) simply so i can adjust the speaker levels and better tune the system.

then, in addition, sending the remaining 2 sub channels to a small, signal-sensing monoblock amp to drive an aftermarket sub that fits in the JBL enclosure, which would give me finer adjustment controls for sub too.

along with providing new, adjustable controls for all speakers and enabling better tuning of the system, this would also reduce the load on the JBL amp/DSP (driving only 8, instead of 10 channels), while also being discrete and relatively inexpensive.

making any sense?

Pretty sure that isn't going to work. The output from the LC8i will be line level and must be amplified before connecting to the speakers.

derp! didn't understand that, obviously. i suppose i can still run the sub signals thru a small monoblock. actually, maybe i'll just start with pulling the panels and adding sound dampener to the rear quarter sheet metal and the exterior of the JBL enclosure itself. possibly add a little polyfill to the inside too and see what happens.

 

[sandcrawler]

bumping this thread [MENTION=73441]Helix26404[/MENTION]

 

[Helix26404]

[MENTION=29376]sandcrawler[/MENTION] [MENTION=110036]Neauxla[/MENTION] [MENTION=115066]Ezlife45[/MENTION]

Believe it or not, I'm back. Finished MBA, got married and had to deal with a tumor issue since I've last posted here. But all is well now.

I'm going to post a quick read guide later this afternoon, then will build it out as needed.

 

[Helix26404]

Started the write-up thread here:

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-g...bl-while-retaining-stock-h-u.html#post2391907