Anyone swap entire wheels daily versus offroad?

[jhmoore]

I'm about half a year into my first 4Runner (2018 TRDORP)... haven't done a lot to it yet... have taken one 3-week roadtrip and have been getting out off-roading about once a month.

I'm still in the original tires, but have been planning on getting off-road tires this spring.

HOWEVER... my gas mileage sucks. It's really awful at about 15 MPG average as my daily driver. (20-21 when I'm traveling) San Diego is pretty constant up-down (hills) and stop-start.

I'd love to get E-rated tires, either 275 or 285/70R17, but I just can't take the gas mileage hit.

I'm thinking about just biting the bullet (cost-wise) and getting a second set of wheels to put the off-road tires on, then running the original tires when using the 4Runner as my daily driver, and swapping wheels when heading out on a trip or local offroad run.

Anyone doing this? Any reason this is a bad idea (other than the cost of the wheels)?

 

[brtnstrns]

I have not done this but I guess the question would be at what point do you reach "break even" between paying for gas vs a whole 'nother wheel/tire swap.

 

[jhmoore]

I have not done this but I guess the question would be at what point do you reach "break even" between paying for gas vs a whole 'nother wheel/tire swap.

Great question!

If I drive 12K miles per year on the original tires (versus the offroad tires), at average San Diego gas prices (higher than most other places!), and assuming a 2 MPG hit: I'd save $430 in that year. Two years, $860. Three years, $1,290.

Seems like from what I've read, a 2 MPG hit is about average when going to an E-rated tire from starter tires? Of course, modify the numbers for more or less of a mileage hit.

Something in the 12K per year is my average around town mileage (not counting trips).

 

[MAST4R]

Great question!

If I drive 12K miles per year on the original tires (versus the offroad tires), at average San Diego gas prices (higher than most other places!), and assuming a 2 MPG hit: I'd save $430 in that year. Two years, $860. Three years, $1,290.

Seems like from what I've read, a 2 MPG hit is about average when going to an E-rated tire from starter tires? Of course, modify the numbers for more or less of a mileage hit.

Something in the 12K per year is my average around town mileage (not counting trips).

For me, tires are much more important than unnecessary mods, which is almost all mods on capable vehicles that do not do extreme terrain or travel Australia end to end.

I had a dual setup for 3 years. It was not on the 4Runner. It worked extremely well for trips to UT and CO. It absolutely did not work well for weekends here in AZ. You have the same problem: the harshest terrain is right next door and what you would face on weekends. Southern Utah or Colorado are much milder on the tires. I basically had to scratch the desert off and just go towards Flagstaff or bother with wheel changes.

So, if your offroading beyond dirt roads is limited to trip time, then the dual setup will work. In that case, you should settle for nothing less than a 3-ply sidewall tire, in my opinion. E-load per se is not something I would bet on for a dedicated trip tire. Go all the way. I listed today all 3-ply sidewall tires from the most commonly mentioned tire makers in a separate thread.

Then, you could have a very street friendly AT as your DD after your stock tires are gone. I used my aging Geolander ATS first for that and then had new Continental AT for that purpose. The Conti AT were great on dirt in limited use as well as exceptional on road, better than an average street tire. Not suitable for the rocks though.

The D-load KO2s with 3-ply sidewall were great on trips to UT and CO. Never a worry.

But the weekends are a problem with a dual setup and the 4Runner tires and wheels are big and heavy and not easy to store or move around.

There is no perfect solution, really, especially here in the harshest deserts. I really like my P-metric Wildpeaks everywhere except the Sonoran Desert with one puncture and one destroyed sidewall already.

Also, if you are out often, you can budget about 25,000 miles of life no matter what tire you use offroad. All the talk of 50-60,000 on offroaded tires, I cannot see it. This is another reason to go for a dual setup.

I budget 18 months per set of tires if it is my only one. It does help that the Wildpeaks are very cheap for such a great all-around tire.

EDIT: if buying aftermarket wheels, please make sure that they have the load ratings necessary for serious offroad use as opposed to looks. However, it would help a great deal if they can be both strong and light weight. That means paying more, but maintaining acceleration and braking performance, as well as mpg. Typically wheels are sold at 4xload rating of wheel=MGVW but the stock wheels are much stronger than that and the minima do not account for load transfer to two wheels or even a single wheel. If I were going that route again, I would look for stock take offs.

 

[Fern]

I'd look for a used set of rims for a couple hundred bucks and some used take off all-terrains or mudders. Deals always pop up. You just need to keep an eye out.

 

[wcjeep]

I use two very different tires on my tow rig. One for heavy weight. The other for snow/winter. On a light duty vehicle is it worth the hassle, storage and swap time?

 

[Bumbo]

Ya man… I don’t wear dress shoes when hiking either.

Multiple sets of rims and tires. It’s a luxury, and a necessity. I don’t like to take compromises when it comes to performance. I love MT tires for off-road, can’t stand them on-road. I really prefer a nice all season like the LTX MS2 P load range for daily driving and the occasional snow trip.

I picked up a set of 5 FJ rims on the cheap too, add tires, cloned TPMS, and you end up with a nice little setup.

 

[Bumbo]

I have not done this but I guess the question would be at what point do you reach "break even" between paying for gas vs a whole 'nother wheel/tire swap.

I can appreciate what you are saying, but a break-even isn’t a metric considered when trying to achieve the best result each driving situation.

If only 1 set, then a compromise must be made… that said, plenty of good tires out there for a weekend warrior like the Cooper Discoverer AT3.

I sure as hell wouldn’t be considering an E load, on or off-road. My first set was an E load KO2 and I hated it.

 

[Akkording]

Having different shoes for every sport is ideal but not without giving up convenience. I say if you have the space to store the extra wheels/tires and you are comfortable doing the jacking up and lifting then do it. We have to pay to play or work to play.
Have you considered Falken Wildpeaks 285/70/17 P rated tires? I'm swapping my 275 C Wildpeak to 285 P. I couldn't deal with the weight of the tires on a recent roadtrip.

 

[Jetboy]

I do.

I have a set of street tires on limited 20" wheels and a set of AT tires on the stock 17" wheels. I swap back and forth for offroad trips vs daily driving and/or long distance highway trips. The highway tires are much quieter and makes long road trips a lot nicer even compared to AT tires. Why no mud tires? - I have a different vehicle for that. Also the type of offroad travel I do rarely encounters mud. AT tires work well in sand, rocks, dirt, etc.

The reality is that the tread pattern isn't really a whole lot different. The primary difference is weight and height. My street tires are 33" tall P rated tires and the dirt set are 34" E rated tires. I'm fortunate enough to have a garage that has room to store them and makes it easy to swap back and forth. I only have 2 full size floor jacks. A third floor jack is the only thing I'm missing to swap all 4 without moving jacks around.

The Cooper AT3's balance out so much better than the Toyo AT2's that I could probably just go back to a single set. But since I have both - the street tires are a lot nicer for daily use. And the 20's are dirt cheap. Tires are $125/ea compared to $250/ea for the 285/75/17's.

Street:

Dirt

 

[Bumbo]

Having different shoes for every sport is ideal but not without giving up convenience. I say if you have the space to store the extra wheels/tires and you are comfortable doing the jacking up and lifting then do it. We have to pay to play or work to play.
Have you considered Falken Wildpeaks 285/70/17 P rated tires? I'm swapping my 275 C Wildpeak to 285 P. I couldn't deal with the weight of the tires on a recent roadtrip.

This is true… this is not without some inconvenience, but the trade-off is well worth my enjoyment for me.

I do the swap myself having a jack, jack stands, torque wrench, and an impact. Gives me an opportunity to inspect suspension too.

You really just need to look at your individual situation and see if it makes sense. My 4Runner doesn’t get a ton of mileage, I sometimes just swap couple times a year in the beginning of desert season. I swap back when needed. I’m not against driving my MTs around town either, but I prefer to not chew them up to keep them healthy for off-road when not needed for months between trips.

 

[Doc.SS]

I can totally relate. When gas got high in 2012 I was spending almost $700 a month for gas in my Tacoma. If I got 2 mpg better, that would be almost $100 every months could save. In the 4Runner I spend about $200 a month. I also don’t have to drive in half the time. Now, a 2mpg difference is less than $30 a month.

If you can swing it, the extra set could pay off after the first year.

I used to switch tires when I went SCCA racing and it was fairly easy. I could jack up one side of my car and take off both wheels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MAST4R]

I do.

I have a set of street tires on limited 20" wheels and a set of AT tires on the stock 17" wheels.

This is true… this is not without some inconvenience, but the trade-off is well worth my enjoyment for me.

.

Good points in your posts, as usual. It really is a tough proposition if one has only a single, multi-purpose rig here in AZ (or SoCal). I think both of you are fortunate to have separate trail rigs. The harshest terrain is right around home and drives to greener pastures are very long. So having the stronger tire as a trip tire makes little sense. Been there, done that.

Option 1 is to choose one of the better P or LT-C ATs, make sure you have a fifth one, and Discount Tire service and certificates. Just replaced the one I destroyed on Saturday. Twenty dollars for labor.

Option 2 I saw for the first time yesterday: LT-D Ko2. I saw it on the DTD website but not on the BFG. Hope it is true and they do in fact list the proper load and speed ratings so it does not look like a typo. It would be a viable option and a really strong tire, not just a 2-ply E rated where one hopes that the load carrying capacity translates into puncture resistance.

 

[Bumbo]

Good points in your posts, as usual. It really is a tough proposition if one has only a single, multi-purpose rig here in AZ (or SoCal). I think both of you are fortunate to have separate trail rigs. The harshest terrain is right around home and drives to greener pastures are very long. So having the stronger tire as a trip tire makes little sense. Been there, done that.

Option 1 is to choose one of the better P or LT-C ATs, make sure you have a fifth one, and Discount Tire service and certificates. Just replaced the one I destroyed on Saturday. Twenty dollars for labor.

Option 2 I saw for the first time yesterday: LT-D Ko2. I saw it on the DTD website but not on the BFG. Hope it is true and they do in fact list the proper load and speed ratings so it does not look like a typo. It would be a viable option and a really strong tire, not just a 2-ply E rated where one hopes that the load carrying capacity translates into puncture resistance.

As always, one must look at their own use case, needs, requirements, and preferences. If my backyard was the rocky AZ terrain, I think I could be pretty happy with a single set of tires, a good AT with a C or D load range with some aggressive tread if I really didn’t want to deal with multiple sets.

I have never really felt like I didn’t have enough durability with a C Load. It’s very compliant when aired down, and I certainly don’t feel like an E load was necessary, if fact I think they performed worse due to being so damn stiff.

Getting into a set of MT was a bit of a fluke as I was shopping for new AT tires… I saw some Jeep take-offs in 255/75/17 which fit some newly acquired FJ rims so I decided to try them out figuring I could easily sell them for what I paid, but I ended up loving how they drove off-road so I kept them. To be honest, the main reason I even maintain a second set is for 1) rain, 2) snow trips, and 3) so save the life of my mud terrains because once you start to wear down the chunky knobby lugs they start to look a bit sad.

 

[MAST4R]

once you start to wear down the chunky knobby lugs they start to look a bit sad.

:lol:

Yeah. Tires are tricky. Lots of objective and subjective factors to consider.

At the end, I am in the "the less the hassle, the more the outings" camp.

Everything that makes going out harder reduces the frequency of going out.

You are getting very serious with that 4th gen and long travel. Sounds like a big project. Good luck!

Btw, what do the guys who go really fast in the desert run? What pressures do they use? Doubt they can go low without risking big time.

 

[Jetboy]

:lol:

Yeah. Tires are tricky. Lots of objective and subjective factors to consider.

At the end, I am in the "the less the hassle, the more the outings" camp.

Everything that makes going out harder reduces the frequency of going out.

You are getting very serious with that 4th gen and long travel. Sounds like a big project. Good luck!

Btw, what do the guys who go really fast in the desert run? What pressures do they use? Doubt they can go low without risking big time.

Most hard core desert go fast trucks run bfg baja ta tires. They look kinda mild, but they are really soft and hook up really well. And they don't last very long. Maybe a few thousand miles. They run low pressure, but the tires are usually 39s. So they have a lot of sidewall. And they're crazy durable.... and crazy expensive.

 

[MAST4R]

Most hard core desert go fast trucks run bfg baja ta tires. They look kinda mild, but they are really soft and hook up really well. And they don't last very long. Maybe a few thousand miles. They run low pressure, but the tires are usually 39s. So they have a lot of sidewall. And they're crazy durable.... and crazy expensive.

Thanks! Good to know. I remember very well that when the KO2 was released BFG claimed gravel life of 2,000 miles. I guess that means racing speeds.

My use is nothing like that but is substantial enough to make my tires last half of what they are advertised. So the BFG numbers helped me a great deal in realizing that this is simply part of the deal.

If you had the chance to legally go very fast in a well-prepared 4runner on regular use 32-34" tires, what tires would you choose and what pressures would you run?

 

[mnofpeace]

I cannot say its a daily thing...but a guy i work with who owns a nicely modded Limited has TRD Pro wheels with his off-road nobby tires mounted...but when the snow started to fall here in the DC area, he showed up with his Limited 20's on the truck with Blizzack tires mounted. I thought that was very mindful of his usage of the truck from season to season.

 

[Bumbo]

If you had the chance to legally go very fast in a well-prepared 4runner on regular use 32-34" tires, what tires would you choose and what pressures would you run?

I know I am not sitting in a trophy truck, but the 255/75/17 (32.1”) BFG Baja Champion KM mud terrains I use when driving though the dunes / desert sand are aired up in the high teens… 18 rear and 20 in the front. Feels like it gives enough compliance over the terrain while maintaining enough stiffness to help against popping a bead. If I am doing trail stuff where I might be crawling over some rocks I am in the mid to low teens.

I’m usually cruising around anywhere between 25 to 50 mph depending on the terrain, feels plenty fast for how my truck is setup right now. Sometimes faster In the early morning when the sand is nice and smooth, it’s a lot of fun, but once it gets all chopped up by other riders you can’t really go as fast. At least that’s from my own experience. I can only see the safety envelop and speed increasing with LT and larger tires.

 

[Inv4drZm]

I honestly don't find my mud terrains to be annoyingly loud, Hankook Dynapro MT. I just crank up the stereo on long trips and don't worry about it. But I'm only 23 and that may be the difference.

I'd get a nice set of all-terrains as a second tire, but its just more money and more hassle for me. Never seriously considered it to be honest.