Attn: Anyone running OEM Black Tokico 80 Series LC SHOCKS in the rear

[BigFishAllDay]

Thanks for the response. Interested on how much difference the lower air pressure makes. I have a set of these shocks sitting in my shop but with an 85lb AOR rear bumper, spare tire, and about 50lbs of tools I'm afraid they are going to be too stiff.

So here's an update for you on that:

After running these shocks on the Moab trip and spending some time with them, I have come to like them quite a bit.

Alot of the harshness I was getting on smaller bumps WAS due to the air pressure in my tires. Since I had to air down anyway while I was in Moab, I played with different pressures and found that the E-rated Duratracs had a HUGE effect on the ride quality as I went up on pressure. When I arrived, they had heated up on the highway and were at 40PSI when I pulled into area BFE on the first day. I felt every little bump on the drive up there from ABQ. The truck rode like crap on the way in on the washboard road, everything was rattling around inside, the latch on my CBI spun off a couple times, and it generally felt like it was going to fall apart. I wasn't sure exactly what the issue was.

Then I aired down to 20PSI, and it was like a whole new vehicle. I could do 30 mph (vs 20) on that same washboard road with drastically reduced noise, vibration, and ride harshness. The shocks soaked up everything I threw at them and kept the 861's and all the extra weight in check. I was loaded up for the trip, so I was carrying an extra ~400lbs on the way in, and about 250lbs once I had unloaded & set up my camping gear. Remember, that weight is on TOP OF the CBI and 33" spare out back.

On the way home, I brought the tires up to 30PSI and the ride was much nicer. The higher air pressure had no effect on my gas mileage, it just made for a crappy ride. I think alot of what I was experiencing before was due to the air pressure bump. For someone with a heavy rear bumper, or weight in the cargo area, I can definitely recommend these shocks.

I can't believe I missed this thread!!! Great info BFAD as always. I like Rob just used the thicker grade 8 washers and they worked great. I now am running king 2.5" remote resi's that I got a great deal on. Honestly I cant tell a huge difference between the LC's and the Kings. The kings are rebuildable and I will never need to buy another pair but that being said I could buy a lot of sets of the LC's for what I paid for the kings.

Thanks Rockdawg! That's cool to know that the LC shocks do nearly as good a job as those $$$$ Kings. Thanks again for the initial pics.

Bigfish, did you have to use two washers on the top of the shock mount to get the nut tight? I got 4 of the washers from the dealer you listed in this thread but will I need 2 more? Another thread said they had to use 2 on top.

Nope, they are installed just as I showed in the picture in post #13 in this thread. You only need the four washers that you already have. The rubber bushings that come with the Tokicos are pretty thick, I actually had a hard time getting the nut started on the shock threads up top because the bushings were so thick that the threads barely showed above the top washer.

I'll repost the pic that I'm referencing here:

I'm interested to hear more about this! Looking to replace my skyjackers with some LC shocks in the future....

Interested as well.

See top reply in this post. I'm sure others will chime in as time goes on.

WHen I installed my lc tokicos I took Steves advice from SS and drilled out the upper shock assembly and used all the stock hardware from the Land Cruiser to give full moveablitly of the upper shock housing. IF you dont do this it will limit some movement and flex of the upper shock assembly. It does make a difference too as I have ran both ways.

Yep, and then you've got a huge hole in your upper mounts and you're limited to using these shocks, and only these... if you want a proper fit... FOREVER. Usually a change in coils or addition/subtraction of weight will dictate a change in shocks, and it's nice to retain that flexibility in case you choose to go a different direction with your rig.

I ran these without drilling out the hole or using the LC washers and it still flexed to the point that I was close to dropping a spring out (yikes!), so I would say it isn't necessary. There may be some difference, but it's not a lot.

My experience with the Tokicos is also that they ride too stiff without a lot of weight in the truck. The harshness over small bumps and pavement joints as described above is exactly what I experienced with two different sets of tires at various air pressures. It's definitely the shocks. If you've got a bumper, spare tire carrier, air tank, tools, etc, then it would probably ride great.

Exactly. Drilling out the upper mount is not necessary, and I would agree that these are not the right shock for a rig with no extra weight out back. I would not be running them if I didn't have the CBI/hi-lift/33" spare/cargo box full of tools and a ton of gear in the back on most trips.

 

[tre9er]

I would not be running them if I didn't have the CBI/hi-lift/33" spare/cargo box full of tools and a ton of gear in the back on most trips.

Ack...well I don't plan to have a lot of weight unless it's a camping trip or towing, so this is making me reconsider my rear shock plans for my 2.5" lift...Now I'm wondering if there is an extended travel shock that won't ride harsh without weight...sigh...

 

[BigFishAllDay]

The Bilstein 5100's that originally came with my SS 1.2 (again, see pictures in post #13) rode beautifully before I added the extra weight and the OME 861 coils.

I have them installed on my '97 now, with 7.5 wrap LC coils, and they are great. That truck has no added weight in the back other than a factory tow hitch.

Bilstien Part # F4-BE5-A014-H7. They are just a 5100 series shock for the rear of a 1st Gen Tundra.

 

[tre9er]

The Bilstein 5100's that originally came with my SS 1.2 (again, see pictures in post #13) rode beautifully before I added the extra weight and the OME 861 coils.

I have them installed on my '97 now, with 7.5 wrap LC coils, and they are great. That truck has no added weight in the back other than a factory tow hitch.

Bilstien Part # F4-BE5-A014-H7. They are just a 5100 series shock for the rear of a 1st Gen Tundra.

I had been thinking of going that route. I wonder, has anyone used OEM Tundra rear shocks?

 

[BrianSD_42]

When I spoke with Steve about replacing my rear shocks which I did when I put my sway bar back on last summer, he mentioned that while the Bilstiens are great for the front they are not very good on the rear compared to the Toyota shock.

 

[TNRunner99]

Nope, they are installed just as I showed in the picture in post #13 in this thread. You only need the four washers that you already have. The rubber bushings that come with the Tokicos are pretty thick, I actually had a hard time getting the nut started on the shock threads up top because the bushings were so thick that the threads barely showed above the top washer.

I'll repost the pic that I'm referencing here:

Thanks for the reply. The pic is exactly how I'm setting them up. How hard was the lower bushing to press in. I'm guessing you need a vice to do this? Sorry this is my last question. I just don't remember seeing they had to be done in the original post.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

derdog, no worries on the questions.

The lower bushings are not press fit bushings. There are two of them for each shock, one for each side of the lower shock mount, and on each bushing there is one side that is tapered. When you look at the lower mount on the shock, you'll see that it too has a taper, but an inside taper. You just push the bushings into the lower mount, then bolt it on.

I found it easiest to put the inner bushing over the mount on the axle, then put the lower shock mount onto the axle, then push the outer bushing on and install the bolt/washer.

 

[fightman80]

So, knowing that I only have my homemade tire carrier, with stock bumpers in the back, and a 33'' spare.... what shock would you recommend for my rig??

 

[tre9er]

Thanks for the reply. The pic is exactly how I'm setting them up. How hard was the lower bushing to press in. I'm guessing you need a vice to do this? Sorry this is my last question. I just don't remember seeing they had to be done in the original post.

I think maybe you're thinking of Tundra rear shocks, which have the 0.5" bushing in the lower mount that has to be swapped for a 0.75". If you go the Tundra rear shock route, the bushing can be pressed out/in with a bolt, washers, nut, and a few sockets.

 

[white_n_slow]

So, knowing that I only have my homemade tire carrier, with stock bumpers in the back, and a 33'' spare.... what shock would you recommend for my rig??

I personally don't think that setup is heavy enough to warrant the tokicos.

 

[TNRunner99]

I think maybe you're thinking of Tundra rear shocks, which have the 0.5" bushing in the lower mount that has to be swapped for a 0.75". If you go the Tundra rear shock route, the bushing can be pressed out/in with a bolt, washers, nut, and a few sockets.

No they are the shocks listed in this tread. The bushing come separate in the bag with the shocks and I wasn't sure if they had to be pressed in.

 

[01Green]

I have the 1.2 SS kit on my 2000 T4R with the LC shocks and a CBI rear w/swingout and it rides very nice and peforms exellent off road. I have a hard time with hearing all the negative talk about Steve at SS. He has been very helpful to me with info and answering questions I had prior to choosing the lift kit. He has spent alot of time and money puting togeter his products and I'm sure that he does get frustrated with people using the parts from other sources that he offers just to save a couple of bucks. I could have saved a few bucks by cheaping out too but realized I might have to tap into his knowledge bank at some point. (And I have) I have alot of respect for Steve and his experiance with the 3rd gen's suspention upgrades.
Just thought I would add some possitive feedback for Steve and his company to try to balance out all the negative.:focus:

Regards,

Dave

 

[SCRunner12]

Anyone want to trade some Tokico Trekmasters for your Bilsteins? I have the green Tokico's and want to try out the Bilsteins since I don't have weight in the back.

 

[dirtbike250x]

I know this thread is about the Black Tokico Shocks, but I can't seem to find to much on the Green Tokico shocks. So I was just wondering if there was much of a difference between the two.

Thanks for making this thread btw, it has been very helpful.

 

[Bean4runner]

do the lc tokico's have zones too?

I've just installed them with 9wrap lc coils and they are way too stiff for city driving. i've also tested them with 4runner oem springs and they where the same.

I'm thinking if there is a sweet spot just in the middle of those heights. Planing on testing with an equivalent to the 7.5wrap lc coils.

btw: bumps stops had nothing to do with the stiffness in small bumps situations (aka city driving).

 

[Taylor20]

Nevermind, shocks in possession.

 

[Taylor20]

New question, regarding the indexing or center washer. I can't seem to find a hardware kit from Rancho easily that shows that washer. If my OE ones are usable, can I also plate another washer under it to prevent the bushing from squeezing out past it?
Also, is that washer even necessary, as SS instructions don't even use one nor mention it. Simply washer - bushing - mount - bushing - washer - nut.

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I would also not follow the suggestions on the post as through our testing the methods will not work. What will happen is that the shocks shaft is a much harder metal then the frame steel and the hole in the frame will become ovulated and destroyed. After time......

If you are going to run an FJ80 shocks on a 4Runner correctly you must do 2 things, recreate the exact same mounting environment that the Toyota Engineers designed on the FJ80 and adjust the bump stops for the much longer compressed length

None of these things were done in this thread.

Steve, if you had taken the time to read the thread or even just look at the pictures, you probably would have noticed that I am running your lift at the rear end of my 4Runner (albeit with OME 861 coils)... see pic below...

That being said, those are the bumpstops that you sell. So in fact, the bump stops HAVE been adjusted to match the much longer compressed length.

Without the centering cup the hardened shafts of the shock will cut notches into your frame. There is so much more to lifting these vehicle correctly then trowing a few parts on them, it's all the little mistakes that will lead to much more devastating issues, like having someone try to weld your frame.

As I have said before, I would not install the shock in the manner shown in this thread on my vehicle.

Since you felt the need to post this recommendation twice, let's just clear it up for everyone.

The only thing that you do differently from what I have done in this thread is that you take a step bit and open up the upper shock mounting hole (on the frame) to match the diameter of the protrusion on the OE FJ80 centering washer. You then install the shock with the OE centering washer. The collar on the centering washer protects the now larger hole on the frame from being slotted out by the mounting shaft on the shock. In addition the larger hole allows the mounting shaft some room to bend from side to side as the shock is pulled into various positions when the axle flexes.

I think that covers the PROS of your approach...

Now the CONS:

- Once someone has enlarged the mounting hole on the frame, they are pretty much commited to running these shocks for the duration of the time they own the rig. Alternatively, they could hunt down a different shock with a similarly sized (bigger) mounting shaft. But, if they decided that they didn't like the feel of these shocks, it would be difficult to go back to something with a smaller mounting shaft (like a bilstien 5100, see side by side photos in this thread), because the smaller shaft would float around in the now much larger mounting hole on the frame.

- If someone wanted to go back to a shock with a smaller shaft, they would have to "recreate the exact same mounting environment that the Toyota Engineers designed" on the 3rd gen 4runner. That would entail the "devastating issue" of having someone try to weld on their frame, and fix the now enlarged mounting hole... perhaps by welding a thick washer in place to re-create the smaller, stock sized opening at the frame mount.

:shrug:

In my case, I wanted to give these shocks a couple thousand miles before I decided to alter my frame in order to properly mount them. Now that I've decided that I like them, I may go back in and open up the hole to accept the OE centering washer.

Maybe I'll find that the upper mounting hole is a little bit wallowed out from the many off road trips that I've done in the meantime, but that's no big deal because guess what? I'd have to drill it out anyway to properly mount the shocks as recommended by you.

I'm not debating that your way is probably the best way to go about mounting these shocks... if you plan to run them for the long haul. However, there are many considerations that have to be accounted for by the owners of these vehicles.

 

[BrianSD_42]

I have these shocks in the rear and they work great for my purposes!

 

[BigFishAllDay]

I have these shocks in the rear and they work great for my purposes!

Yeah, you told us back on page 2, remember? (see below)

I'm running them as part of my SS 1.2A kit from Steve.

They are great.

So? Did you follow Steve's instructions and enlarge the mounting hole on the frame? If so, why? If not, why?