Axle Seal Woes...

[Roamed YT]

Okay, I think I'm just venting (and maybe looking for confirmation of a theory)... I did both axle seals almost 3 weeks ago. Sent the stubs to the machine shop that the local dealer uses and they did the grunt work of removal and pressing. I did seals and whatnot.

I drove it for 16 days, just around town. Over the weekend, I took a trip down to Skagway, AK with one of the kids. A total of *maybe* 300 miles and when I get home, lo, I have another puked seal!

At least I'm getting quicker, and can do a bare seal in about an hour now but my theory is this: perhaps I didn't seat the seal completely when I replaced it and it was wearing against the bearing which caused it to fail? I would think the spacers would prevent that but it's tough to say because I usually butcher seals when pulling them.

The diff breather was relocated last year and still blows clear so I don't think it's over-pressurizing but I could be wrong.

Also, only the right side failed and I replaced both at the same time a few weeks ago. I'm using OEM parts and (I believe) the updated seal number listed in BFAD's parts listing for ABS trucks.

Thoughts?

 

[lockedlex]

Have you tried the grease test to confirm where the seal is sitting on the Axle?

 

[LittleCaesar]

Make sure you are using a NEW OEM breather. I had one years back that seemed to rattle but it ultimately didn't vent ( new left seal failed again). Changed it out and nine years later it still works fine.

 

[St Runner]

If the seal was pulled improperly it can scratch and gouge the housing. This will allow it to leak around the outside of the seal since its just a pressed in fitting. I had to fix this on my 97. Sand and clean up the housing if it is scratched and use a good quality sealer when you put the new seal in

 

[mtbtim]

I've said this a million billion times. This has got to be the #1 repair dealers, independent shops, machine shops and DIYers screw up. The main reason is they don't understand the simple fact that Toyota redesigned the rear axle seal sometime in the past and now the axle seal lip sits 2mm more inboard. But yeah, there are other reasons like not addressing the reason why the seal failed in the first place like from a clogged breather or worn out axle bearings.

Yes, do what others have said already. Do the grease test and see where the seal lip is riding on the inner retainer, if it's riding on it at all.

I think [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] has been the biggest contributor to shedding light on why so many shops and people have trouble with this repair due to the fact that they are uninformed about the axle seal redesign. His retainer flip method is genius in my opinion. I also learned about doing the grease test and how to check if my axle seals were leaking by pulling the ABS sensors from his axle seal thread.

I've used the Dr Coffee retainer flip method for all 8 times I've performed this repair. It works.

OP, watch the video below and make sure to also read the video description and pinned comment so you will understand this repair better.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/AVhSDnw2ugo" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[ToyotaBrah]

Make sure you are using a NEW OEM breather. I had one years back that seemed to rattle but it ultimately didn't vent ( new left seal failed again). Changed it out and nine years later it still works fine.

Shiza! I didn't do this when a buddy and I replaced the seals on mine.


Toyota Part # 90404-51319 - Union Fitting
Toyota Part # 90930-03136 - Breather Plug

Are these the correct part numbers?

Pulled from this thread:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/61740-rear-diff-breather-mod-parts-numbers.html

K.C. mentioned in there that the new breather plug is plastic instead of metal like the original that comes equipped. Should we still upgrade?

 

[RS Dude]

Has anyone successfully just pulled retainer with a bearing splitter and reverse the position of the bevel and replace it by simply heating it up and dropping its place?

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

Has anyone successfully just pulled retainer with a bearing splitter and reverse the position of the bevel and replace it by simply heating it up and dropping its place?

2 things:
First, you could ruin the retainer if you get it too hot. If it changes color in any fashion it could very well be ruined. We used to carry a toaster oven and set it to around 200 degrees and when the time was right we would pull out the shaft sleeve and quick slip it on. A bearing induction heater is the right tool for the job but costs hundreds of dollars for a cheap one.
Second, if your going to go through all the trouble of taking it off to flip it, why not just replace it? They are relatively inexpensive. Even if you just put it on and found out after the fact that maybe it may work better backwards I would still get another. Now if it's a used one I would definitely replace it.

 

[RS Dude]

2 things:
First, you could ruin the retainer if you get it too hot. If it changes color in any fashion it could very well be ruined. We used to carry a toaster oven and set it to around 200 degrees and when the time was right we would pull out the shaft sleeve and quick slip it on. A bearing induction heater is the right tool for the job but costs hundreds of dollars for a cheap one.
Second, if your going to go through all the trouble of taking it off to flip it, why not just replace it? They are relatively inexpensive. Even if you just put it on and found out after the fact that maybe it may work better backwards I would still get another. Now if it's a used one I would definitely replace it.

Yes, actually I would just use a new one instead of reusing old ring.

 

[sawguy]

Has anyone successfully just pulled retainer with a bearing splitter and reverse the position of the bevel and replace it by simply heating it up and dropping its place?

When I did mine I cut the old one off and used a new retainer. Tapped it on with a length of pipe. Also did the 'flip' method by Dr Coffee and no more leaks.

 

[Toyotayoda]

I'm looking in with interest, mine too has been leaking on the right side. I've replaced the inner seal 4 times the first one went in crooked and I thought that was the problem.) I replaced the bearing, retainers, outer seal, and ABS ring twice. the first time I thought I pressed the retainer too far, because the seal was still puking, I also used a SKP bearing. so I bought a Toyota bearing and did the whole thing over again. it lasted a whopping 2000 miles and puking again. I bought a new vent, cleaned up, still puking. I took the rh axle out when I re inspected I saw a small ding on the inner seal, like super small, the seal was parts warranty so I replaced it again. now my seal is leaking, but not really bad, but it's really aggravating. I'll likely replace the axle, because there is nothing other than it, and the housing, that hasn't been replaced. I would sell the old crank, but I've got much more than time invested in it

 

[mtbtim]

I'm looking in with interest, mine too has been leaking on the right side. I've replaced the inner seal 4 times the first one went in crooked and I thought that was the problem.) I replaced the bearing, retainers, outer seal, and ABS ring twice. the first time I thought I pressed the retainer too far, because the seal was still puking, I also used a SKP bearing. so I bought a Toyota bearing and did the whole thing over again. it lasted a whopping 2000 miles and puking again. I bought a new vent, cleaned up, still puking. I took the rh axle out when I re inspected I saw a small ding on the inner seal, like super small, the seal was parts warranty so I replaced it again. now my seal is leaking, but not really bad, but it's really aggravating. I'll likely replace the axle, because there is nothing other than it, and the housing, that hasn't been replaced. I would sell the old crank, but I've got much more than time invested in it

Through all these repairs, have you ever performed the grease test and confirmed where the seal was riding on the inner retainer?

 

[Toyotayoda]

Through all these repairs, have you ever performed the grease test and confirmed where the seal was riding on the inner retainer?

Yep thus replaced the bearing retainers and ABS ring a second time. I'm Almost ready to buy the $1200 housing, and $500 axle. Whats worse is I've done this repair successfully more times than I can count on other tacos and t4r's, and mine is the one being a bastard.

 

[whyzee125]

I typically tackle jobs myself within reason but I've read too many threads similar to this to attempt the job myself, despite how cheap it is to DIY. I know several friends who have also had headaches after doing their axle seals.

After mine saturated my brake shoes to the point of no rear brakes, I took mine to a trusted indy shop and paid around $475 for both inner and outer seals, brake shoes, and resurfacing the drums. 9k miles later zero issues to report.

 

[mtbtim]

Yep thus replaced the bearing retainers and ABS ring a second time. I'm Almost ready to buy the $1200 housing, and $500 axle. Whats worse is I've done this repair successfully more times than I can count on other tacos and t4r's, and mine is the one being a bastard.

That's a confusing one for sure.

 

[RS Dude]

I did both sides with all Toyota oem parts about 15k miles ago and placed the lock ring in the normal position, not reversed. My drivers side is fine, but the passenger side is leaking after only about 12k miles. Will just try a non Toyota oil seal that is a two lip design to see if that fixes it. If not then I will flip the ring.ray:

 

[nobb]

I did both sides with all Toyota oem parts about 15k miles ago and placed the lock ring in the normal position, not reversed. My drivers side is fine, but the passenger side is leaking after only about 12k miles. Will just try a non Toyota oil seal that is a two lip design to see if that fixes it. If not then I will flip the ring.ray:

Which non Toyota oil seal would you use? I think there was a Youtube video somewhere that compared the seals and the National and Timken seals were too tight and didn't have the same radial flexibility.

 

[RS Dude]

Which non Toyota oil seal would you use? I think there was a Youtube video somewhere that compared the seals and the National and Timken seals were too tight and didn't have the same radial flexibility.

It's an Autozone house brand, but I think it is a National because it has the same part number. Made in Taiwan and only $5 so I will give it a try. The Toyota oem seal is advisably better quality. If I have to reverse ring, then I will only use oem.

 

[mtbtim]

Which non Toyota oil seal would you use? I think there was a Youtube video somewhere that compared the seals and the National and Timken seals were too tight and didn't have the same radial flexibility.

That was [MENTION=78997]Drcoffee[/MENTION] that did that comparison. The Toyota redesigned seal was certainly an improvement for sure in how radially flexible it is. Toyota just screwed up and made the seal lip sit 2mm more inboard and didn't really understand how dramatic the consequences were going to be. I wonder if they ever came out with a TSB for it warning mechanics that the inner retainer position needs to be adjusted because of the new seal design.
[MENTION=44971]RS Dude[/MENTION], I think you might regret going with that aftermarket seal and find you're pulling the axle yet again. And, if you take long trips, it might fail at a really inconvenient time. The Toyota seal is a really good design. it just sucks that the redesigned seal caused problems the Toyota engineers didn't think of.

 

[Renegade_Medic]

Okay, I think I'm just venting (and maybe looking for confirmation of a theory)... I did both axle seals almost 3 weeks ago. Sent the stubs to the machine shop that the local dealer uses and they did the grunt work of removal and pressing. I did seals and whatnot.

I drove it for 16 days, just around town. Over the weekend, I took a trip down to Skagway, AK with one of the kids. A total of *maybe* 300 miles and when I get home, lo, I have another puked seal!

At least I'm getting quicker, and can do a bare seal in about an hour now but my theory is this: perhaps I didn't seat the seal completely when I replaced it and it was wearing against the bearing which caused it to fail? I would think the spacers would prevent that but it's tough to say because I usually butcher seals when pulling them.

The diff breather was relocated last year and still blows clear so I don't think it's over-pressurizing but I could be wrong.

Also, only the right side failed and I replaced both at the same time a few weeks ago. I'm using OEM parts and (I believe) the updated seal number listed in BFAD's parts listing for ABS trucks.

Thoughts?

I'm something of a quick-change axle seal pro myself, now.

Have you checked the inside of the axle tube itself? I had a similar infuriating issue and couldn't figured it out. When the machine shop did my axle, they pressed the retainer on incorrectly and it was too far inboard. This was causing it to hit the inside of the axle and get very hot from friction, and melt the seals. It would pass the grease test, but after a few days of driving it would puke again. I eventually figured it out and told the shop. They pressed it on further and gave me a partial refund since I spent a ton of money on gear oil and OE seals (5 if I remember correctly). No issues since.

Here's what the inside of the axle housing looked like, notice the shiny ground off areas?

And the messed up retainer.

And here's how it should be (from another axle I had)

No scoring inside this one:

I'm not saying this is the problem, but it was for me. Fixed it about 20k miles ago and no issues, so safe to say that was it.