BlackWorksInc
New member
No that I know of... because it uses two sensors that cannot be bypassed.
B1T/BST Campaign Warning
- Thread starter BlackWorksInc
- Start date
No that I know of... because it uses two sensors that cannot be bypassed.
guardsred944s
New member
So the only solution is finding a pre-2014 ECU? I am thinking that there must be a way to re-flash the ECU. You need this to drive in snow...
So another question I guess: Wherever I look for t4r recalls, the only accelerator recall that is mentioned is the one about modifying the accelerator pedal/floor mat. So how come I have not seen this anywhere else?
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BlackWorksInc
New member
Well, the 90L is a Recall while the BST is a Special Service Campaign. The difference being that the 90L is correcting a "defective part" (I put that in quotes because in my personal opinion I believe the drivers are defective and not the part) while the BST is to correct an issue that can occur in some rare instances. Basically the BST is a limited service campaign that owners can choose to have performed on their vehicle. So it won't show up as a Recall, but it will show up as a Campaign.
There is no "Pre-2014 ECM" for thee 4th gen 4Runner, we don't change the units out; we just reflash them. Finding an ECM that hasn't been flashed to a newer calibration is going to be a bit difficult, but not impossible. The issue is that you will need to find an ECM that is the same as the one you're replacing, otherwise you may need to reflash the ECM (which will only be with the most current calibration and you'll be back at square one), that's going to be the trickier part.
On a side note, here's some criteria for activation I found:
I can tell you right now that based on my experience with the Corolla and 4Runner that line about "Brakes Applied Firmly" is not accurate. Most of the testing I have done and successfully engaged the SST has been with the brake pedal depressed enough to just activate the brake switch; so I doubt they are using the brake fluid pressure switch/sensor for this.
I will have to test the "to allow the vehicle to start on a hill without rolling backwards, the Brake Override System will not activate if the brake pedal is applied prior to pressing the accelerator pedal." As far as I remember that may or may not be true and could be what makes me more inclined to be okay with it installed on my vehicle; I'll update next time I have a 4Runner with the BST and some time to test drive it a bit.
Post Note-
I love how they don't bother mentioning delay times on the throttle recovery.
I tested mine a few months ago (see previous post), and it doesn't seem that bad. It's annoying that dealers are doing it without people's consent, though. I guess it's easy money for them.
Yes, there is a delay when you release the brake pedal before it deactivates, but it seems like it just gently ramps up the accelerator. Maybe too gently. In general that's probably preferable to instantly setting it to where your foot says it should be, because if that's not what you want you will need some time to react.
They say it doesn't activate in 4L. I haven't tested that, but at least it negates some of the off road concerns. If I'm driving with both pedals, I would probably be going slow, and I would probably want 4L so the torque converter doesn't have to work as hard.
It says "During greater accelerator pedal application, the Brake Override System activates with any brake pedal pressure". But even the lightest pressure on the brakes seems to activate it at any accelerator position. Maybe some cars have a hard braking switch in addition to a regular braking switch, so they don't need to look at the brake pressure. But I think we have brake assist, so it should always know the brake pressure?
Changes in accelerator pedal position may cancel activation. That's true, if I press the brakes lightly and gas for normal cruising, if I press the gas harder it slowly ramps up and lets me accelerate. I didn't see if throttle response becomes completely normal at that point.
What are the cases off-road where you might want to use both pedals? Starting from a stop with uneven traction is one, but the brake before accelerator and 4L exceptions take care of that. How often do you need to use the brakes and gas in 4H while already moving? I can't think of a time when it would be useful, but I don't have much experience driving off-road, so I'd like to know if there's a technique or situation I don't know about?
Yes, there is a delay when you release the brake pedal before it deactivates, but it seems like it just gently ramps up the accelerator. Maybe too gently. In general that's probably preferable to instantly setting it to where your foot says it should be, because if that's not what you want you will need some time to react.
They say it doesn't activate in 4L. I haven't tested that, but at least it negates some of the off road concerns. If I'm driving with both pedals, I would probably be going slow, and I would probably want 4L so the torque converter doesn't have to work as hard.
It says "During greater accelerator pedal application, the Brake Override System activates with any brake pedal pressure". But even the lightest pressure on the brakes seems to activate it at any accelerator position. Maybe some cars have a hard braking switch in addition to a regular braking switch, so they don't need to look at the brake pressure. But I think we have brake assist, so it should always know the brake pressure?
Changes in accelerator pedal position may cancel activation. That's true, if I press the brakes lightly and gas for normal cruising, if I press the gas harder it slowly ramps up and lets me accelerate. I didn't see if throttle response becomes completely normal at that point.
What are the cases off-road where you might want to use both pedals? Starting from a stop with uneven traction is one, but the brake before accelerator and 4L exceptions take care of that. How often do you need to use the brakes and gas in 4H while already moving? I can't think of a time when it would be useful, but I don't have much experience driving off-road, so I'd like to know if there's a technique or situation I don't know about?
guardsred944s
New member
Thanks for the informative post!
CookieRoe
Senior Member
I doubt it as the ECM is reprogrammed to delay the throttle when the brake is applied. AS you allude to in your link (post), COULD be solenoid/whatever it's called issue in the transmission. The $250 for a non-pressurized flush doesn't seem to be steep, but that's my opinion.
Good luck.
preacher35
New member
So, [MENTION=66389]BlackWorksInc[/MENTION], I can tell from this one statement that you and I would get along really good. I do not want to thread hijack or open that can of worms either, but you are EXACTLY correct about what is wrong with this country! Regardless, thanks for the heads up. I will be taking my Runner to the dealer next week to inquire about my cracked dash and do not want to make the mistake of allowing the ECM update. Thanks again!
4by4runr
Member
Just saw this thread, had my truck in for the airbag recall and to get my dash inspected about a month ago, when i was done they told me they went ahead and updated the ecu for me which I didn't authorize or ask for and didn't even realize what it was for and now see this!!!!?!?!!! I can see this being a misfunction even just at an intersection starting to pull out then braking and trying to go again and go nowhere.
Needless to say I'm pissed.
Needless to say I'm pissed.
Inv4drZm
Senior Member
Not sure the reflash is so bad, I told the dealership to go ahead with it when they replace my dash on Tuesday, but I might still back out after reading this thread. I probably will tell them no thanks.
I can't recall ever pushing the brake while already on the accelerator. The reverse order for starting on an incline, yes. However, I'm happy how it drives now and wouldn't want any chance of throttle cutoff on a steep hill next to a cliff in Moab for example.
I can't recall ever pushing the brake while already on the accelerator. The reverse order for starting on an incline, yes. However, I'm happy how it drives now and wouldn't want any chance of throttle cutoff on a steep hill next to a cliff in Moab for example.
Atlanta_man
New member
Told me about the urgent BST for brakes when I ordered the dash last week.
I'm glad I said no until time to research it.
They must get paid good for doing it or they would not be so excited about it.
Hope I can avoid it at dash replace time.
I'm glad I said no until time to research it.
They must get paid good for doing it or they would not be so excited about it.
Hope I can avoid it at dash replace time.
Anonymous4Runner
New member
I don't see anything specific regarding BST when reviewing complete service history on Toyota's site - is it possible this was never done at all?
It says "No recalls reported" but no mention of BST whatsoever
It says "No recalls reported" but no mention of BST whatsoever
BlackWorksInc
New member
It's decent pay for a relatively easy job.
Possibly.
I have not been thrilled with the BST, though I've softened up to it slightly. Only had one or two V8's I had the opportunity to drive more than a mile or so. I'm not happy with the throttle recovery after BST kicks in, it's not horrible, but I can still see it causing a problem in more densely packed places where people are impatient/not paying attention. To be honest I rarely if ever have probably engaged the brake while using the throttle, except for once or twice off-roading to load up the drivetrain a bit. But I'm still not happy with the software update itself, specifically since there's no going back if you've done it.
All that being said I did come across a bit more doomsayer than I should have in the original post, but the warning still stands that this alters the driving characteristics a bit (though in a way most everyone will probably never notice or engage), but it is non-reversible when done.
Rally runner vi
New member
All this recall did for me was bring a slight annoyance. It didn't do anything noticeable except cut power down if I was on the brakes a bit longer and was always a surprise and uncalled for. Definitely avoid. Unfortunately, I am stuck with it but luckily it is almost unnoticeable. I don't notice it when left-foot braking into corners to drift so I'm not that bothered.
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