Ball Joints

Just wondering what is the point of switching to a Tacoma ball joint? Considering ball joint failures typically happen 100k+ and often lifted, I don't see a necessity to switch over. That seems like a good amount of mileage and there are plenty of people driving around on their OEM ball joints with 200k+. I think it is a cool idea, but just not extremely necessary.
 
Very cool to hear that they might fit with only a change of the OTRE.

SCRunner... By upgrading to a larger Ball Joint it gives the lifted 4Runner a little more insurance of breakage or wearing faster than with a smaller Ball Joint while off or on road driving. I for one will be making the pludge if it all fits up and aligns well.
 
In my opinion, If you are changing LBJ "and" Outer Tie rod ends, then Going Taco is the way to go. The bigger tie rod end is much beefier then the 4runner's. This means that it should last longer especially trying to articulate larger tires. The arm that the TRE bolts to is also much more stout. It also should mean that the alignment be straight after a hard day of wheeling.

As far as the joint goes. I googled Tacoma Ball joint failures and it seams to fail as much as 4runner ball joint failures. Some joints fail by the ball pulling out of the cup and some fail because the ball had sheered off the mounting bolt (I think that is due to over torquing the mounting nut).

I have a totaled 96 4runner that had a head on with a F150 and the front drivers ball joint held together. The whole assemble had pulled out of the lower control arm.

2010-11-03_17-16-13_77.jpg~original


2010-11-03_17-16-22_843.jpg~original


So you never know what is going to happen to a ball joint.

But if your TRE are ok, then there is no need (for the added expense) to switch to the Taco ball joints.

Now if you are changing the TRE because yours are loose and warn, then switching to Taco' ball joints and TRE's are a no brainer. There was like a $2 price difference between the 4runner and Taco parts.

Just my opinion though.
 
I figured it was a good alternative, but just curious if it worth the extra hassle of dealing with the TRE's. If I have to replace the TRE's as well, or have some extra cash then I will go with the Tacoma's. Thanks for looking into this Singtoe and I'm looking forward to the first persons test fit.
 
In my opinion, If you are changing LBJ "and" Outer Tie rod ends, then Going Taco is the way to go. The bigger tie rod end is much beefier then the 4runner's. This means that it should last longer especially trying to articulate larger tires. The arm that the TRE bolts to is also much more stout. It also should mean that the alignment be straight after a hard day of wheeling.

As far as the joint goes. I googled Tacoma Ball joint failures and it seams to fail as much as 4runner ball joint failures. Some joints fail by the ball pulling out of the cup and some fail because the ball had sheered off the mounting bolt (I think that is due to over torquing the mounting nut).

I have a totaled 96 4runner that had a head on with a F150 and the front drivers ball joint held together. The whole assemble had pulled out of the lower control arm.



So you never know what is going to happen to a ball joint.

But if your TRE are ok, then there is no need (for the added expense) to switch to the Taco ball joints.

Now if you are changing the TRE because yours are loose and warn, then switching to Taco' ball joints and TRE's are a no brainer. There was like a $2 price difference between the 4runner and Taco parts.

Just my opinion though.
Good call. I'm getting ready to replace my rack and when I do, I'll get it with the taco TRE and LBJ at the same time.
 
Very cool to hear that they might fit with only a change of the OTRE.

SCRunner... By upgrading to a larger Ball Joint it gives the lifted 4Runner a little more insurance of breakage or wearing faster than with a smaller Ball Joint while off or on road driving. I for one will be making the pludge if it all fits up and aligns well.

Eric? Miss your taco at all? I miss mine sometimes but I'm definitely enjoying my 3rd gen a lot more.
 
Eric? Miss your taco at all? I miss mine sometimes but I'm definitely enjoying my 3rd gen a lot more.

I do at times. The 4Runner I have now is bone stock. Im waiting to upgrade the suspension to take it off road, So it's been like 1 1/2yrs since I've been wheeln'. Sucks, but I needed a family hauler.

Yea, I bet you are enjoying the 4Runner. Last time we went 4wheeln' I think you slept in your Tacoma. Not much room in the drivers seat to sleep. lol At least with the Runner you can drop the rear seats for a good 6ft of room.
 
I've learned my lesson with the Tacos I had. I'm gonna leave this one pretty much stock, not even a lift for BJ issues. I'm going to fab a mild bumper to hold a winch and build some sliders. Other than that, this one is only going to see the trails to go hunting and fishing and to take the wife and baby around. I just can't afford to wheel like we used to anymore..LOL.

This LBJ issue was an eye opener for me. Glad to have learned the Taco stuff will work.
 
I am interested in this development as well, since it seems an incremental improvement in the strength of the system. However, the simple fact is that 4Runners have puny front ends and are cursed with a steering system fit for a minivan.

I may be sounding like Debbie Downer, but I really am excited about this. Its cheap, its easy, and if it saves one truck on this forum from being totalled it will be worth it. If its just a sugar pill, then at least it will provide a little peace of mind. :cool:

One of our guides sheared off his mounting bolts for the LBJ while on our High Water Mark trip. He has an 04 Taco. It happens, and will continue to be a weak point until you put a real axle under there.
 
Hoping to replace my LBJs this weekend. I'm tempted to order the Tacoma LBJ's & TRE's and maybe a set of 4runner LBJ's incase the Tacoma's don't work. I can always return the unused 4runner set if the Tacoma ones work.
Josh
 
Hoping to replace my LBJs this weekend. I'm tempted to order the Tacoma LBJ's & TRE's and maybe a set of 4runner LBJ's incase the Tacoma's don't work. I can always return the unused 4runner set if the Tacoma ones work.
Josh

They will work. The question is - are your TRE's worn out? If the are, then this will be the perfect upgrade.

If they are not, then it might be futile.
 
They will work. The question is - are your TRE's worn out? If the are, then this will be the perfect upgrade.

If they are not, then it might be futile.

I thought the TRE's are needed if going the Tacoma route? TREs are less expensive than LBJs.
Josh
 
I thought the TRE's are needed if going the Tacoma route? TREs are less expensive than LBJs.
Josh

They are needed and that is the big improvement. Using the Taco TRE which are much more stronger then the 4runner's TRE.

If your Stock TRE's flop around, then they are worn out and should be replaced.
 
In my opinion, If you are changing LBJ "and" Outer Tie rod ends, then Going Taco is the way to go. The bigger tie rod end is much beefier then the 4runner's. This means that it should last longer especially trying to articulate larger tires. The arm that the TRE bolts to is also much more stout. It also should mean that the alignment be straight after a hard day of wheeling.

As far as the joint goes. I googled Tacoma Ball joint failures and it seams to fail as much as 4runner ball joint failures. Some joints fail by the ball pulling out of the cup and some fail because the ball had sheered off the mounting bolt (I think that is due to over torquing the mounting nut).

I have a totaled 96 4runner that had a head on with a F150 and the front drivers ball joint held together. The whole assemble had pulled out of the lower control arm.


.

I know a fair amount of engineers and unfortunately for us they actually are taught to add failures into the equation due to 'job security' is what they call it. So I just check mine routinely and will end up just going to SAS eventually when the need arises..
 
They are needed and that is the big improvement. Using the Taco TRE which are much more stronger then the 4runner's TRE.

If your Stock TRE's flop around, then they are worn out and should be replaced.

If the Taco TRE's are beefier and you're replacing the LBJ's wouldn't it be beneficial to replace the LBJ's and TRE's with Taco parts?
 
I know a fair amount of engineers and unfortunately for us they actually are taught to add failures into the equation due to 'job security' is what they call it. So I just check mine routinely and will end up just going to SAS eventually when the need arises..

There would be lawsuits if companies engineered failure cycles into critical safety items. Other items are, like water pumps, price point engineered. Consumers don't want to spend $1,500 on a life time water-pump, hell getting them to pony up $150 for a 100k mile OEM one is hard enough when they can get a part's store 3rd party unit for $35 that's only good for 2 years.

I do believe there is an effort to price cut and keep sales high in the consumer electronics industry. It has been a race to the bottom with no real effort to improve product longevity.
 
LBJ replacements

So I didn't get around to this last weekend; too many other things came up.
I did manage to put the 4runner up on jack stands and check for any ball joint slop doing the old 6 and 12 o'clock grab and shake. No appairent slop in LBJ's.

Now at a cross roads, with 156k miles and a 3" lift wondering if I should replace just for piece of mind or if it's silly since I don't have any signs of wear? I'm guessing it will take some time to delvelop some slop in the LBJ and I'd have some warning before failure.

Thoughts?
Josh:hiding:
 
I know a fair amount of engineers and unfortunately for us they actually are taught to add failures into the equation due to 'job security' is what they call it. So I just check mine routinely and will end up just going to SAS eventually when the need arises..

Yeah, ACTUAL auto industry engineer here... This is total garbage. Engineers don't engineer failure into parts (unless that is part of their function, like consumable devices), and we are not taught to do that. Engineers design the best design that can be achieved at the price point they are given. Ultimately, it is the business managers that decide how long something is going to last, but it isn't through specific design features, it's through pricing out the best materials and processes.

There are consumable products that have a life cycle, like filters, spark plugs, etc. But these cycles are unavoidable. If someone could come up with a spark plug that lasted the life of the vehicle, they would, they'd sell it for a couple x the cost of a regular one, and they would make a TON of money on it. Then, when "every car in America" has them (which they never will), the company will continue making money because believe it or not, people do buy new cars even though their old ones aren't broken.

What companies do these "engineers" you know work for. I would really like to know.

There would be lawsuits if companies engineered failure cycles into critical safety items. Other items are, like water pumps, price point engineered. Consumers don't want to spend $1,500 on a life time water-pump, hell getting them to pony up $150 for a 100k mile OEM one is hard enough when they can get a part's store 3rd party unit for $35 that's only good for 2 years.

I do believe there is an effort to price cut and keep sales high in the consumer electronics industry. It has been a race to the bottom with no real effort to improve product longevity.

Water pumps are not designed to fail either. Believe me, if they could make one that never needed to be changed, they would. The people making money off the replacement parts are the dealers, because they get service charges out of them. From the manufacturer's standpoint, it is much easier and cheaper to just stop producing a part, stop maintaining inventory, stop shipping replacement parts, etc. I know this because my company has to keep old products and tooling around despite no longer making money off them, just for replacement purposes. We lose money on these things. We made all the money when the part was in full production. No one makes money off of 5k $5 parts being sold per year

You are right about the lawsuits though. And probably somewhat about consumer electronics type industries. But still, even these companies are concerned about their reputations for reliability. Reputation does equate to sales. I can promise you that NOBODY designs in failure of a safety critical part like a ball joint. Look at the pics of guys who've lost LBJ's while driving. No engineering firm wants that liability on their hands.
 
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