Bent 5th gen front Spindles - Your experience?

[bigdaddy2021]

I'd like to hear about your experience with unmodified OE spindle strength. I've heard rumors of them being less than robust and Total Chaos fab puts out a kit to prevent bending/failure:

Spindle gusset kit with swaybar - $87 smackers:
Toyota 4Runner 2010-2022 SPINDLE GUSSETS - WITH SWAYBAR MOUNTS | TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION

These gussets were designed to reinforce a known weak link on your Toyota. Unexpected harsh front impacts at high speed or while under braking can cause catastrophic damage to your factory spindle / knuckle. These weld-on gussets were ogiginally designed for the US military and their 8000 lb. body armored vehicles. Dont get stranded on the trail. Protect your OE parts.

But who here has had this failure, or seen it first hand?
Can you share the details/tire size/usage when failed?
Or have you been wheeling hard, rock strewn trails without much issue to report?

I don't have a big issue with this modification - I'm all about reinforcing areas of concern, but this mod seems to prevent the use of stock TRD OR wheels, and forces us to replace them with either spacers or aftermarket wheels, which we're not to keen on. (unless we have to)

 

[honda250xtitan]

no issues here (plenty of full compression hits going 30-50 both off camber and head on). i already run spacers on my trail wheels. I have a double shear UCA mount kit i want to install after that I will be gusseting my spindles. probably with the DRT kit since he's local.

i've managed to damage the UCA through bolt but not the spindle lol

 

[mrblah]

I think of this as an insurance policy...do it if you can afford it.

I run em, and it gives me a peace of mind since i like to play in the desert more than i like playing in rock gardens.

If you buy wheels with a certain amount of backspacing and offset, you can get away with not running spacers.

 

[SC2388]

I’ve seen a bent one on an FJ (same design). I got the kit after that just for the extra peace of mind and it’s only like $100 plus any labor that you have to have done to have them fab’d (these kits do require a little cutting/grinding to get it to fit just right IME). The guy who bent the FJ one said he was going like 2mph. I never had issues with mine and I haven’t ever seen one bend firsthand, so idk, but maybe if you hit it a certain way it is susceptible ?? It definitely doesn’t seem as beefy as a control arm.

The Total Chaos Kit is a nice kit. They also make a cam tab kit. I’ve seen cam tabs bent on a pretty new Tacoma to the point the truck couldn’t be aligned. There is a way you can do permanent alignment but didn’t get too deep into that and it’s a bridge I will cross if I ever get there

 

[honda250xtitan]

I’ve seen a bent one on an FJ (same design). I got the kit after that just for the extra peace of mind and it’s only like $100 plus any labor that you have to have done to have them fab’d (these kits do require a little cutting/grinding to get it to fit just right IME). The guy who bent the FJ one said he was going like 2mph. I never had issues with mine and I haven’t ever seen one bend firsthand, so idk, but maybe if you hit it a certain way it is susceptible ?? It definitely doesn’t seem as beefy as a control arm.

The Total Chaos Kit is a nice kit. They also make a cam tab kit. I’ve seen cam tabs bent on a pretty new Tacoma to the point the truck couldn’t be aligned. There is a way you can do permanent alignment but didn’t get to deep into that and it’s a bridge I will cross if I ever get there

Marlin Crawler has an awesome gusset system for the whole LCA mount area and encompasses the cam washers. i'm running that one, we couldnt keep an alignment worth anything once the flimsy toyota setup failed. the TC one can be ran with it as well if you wanna get extra crazy.

 

[blksubykid]

I run the TC spindle gussets and the Marlin Crawler cam gussets. The spindle gussets are an insurance policy and I did it since I was doing the cam gussets. I never had an issues prior but I did knock my alignment off a lot.

 

[mrblah]

cam gussets is a no-brainer......

after every offroad trip i had to get my shit re-aligned, and after a few big trips my tabs were flatten/destroyed.

SD truck shop/ Built Right fabrication cam gusset
SD truck shop/ Built Right fabrication spindle gusset.

The SD truck shop/ BR fabrication cam gusset is alot stronger than just the TC version, but not as crazy beefy as the MC version. You can kind of see it in the pic, its boxed in and welded to the subframe. Only thing is, they don't sell a kit for this, they do in-house fabrication if i remember correctly.

Also, in the pic, i have plenty of clearance against the spindle gusset but im running a wheel with 3.5BS and -38 offset.

Can't believe nobody has pics!!!NEANDERTHALS!!!!

 

[honda250xtitan]

cam gussets is a no-brainer......

after every offroad trip i had to get my shit re-aligned, and after a few big trips my tabs were flatten/destroyed.

SD truck shop/ Built Right fabrication cam gusset
SD truck shop/ Built Right fabrication spindle gusset.

The SD truck shop/ BR fabrication cam gusset is alot stronger than just the TC version, but not as crazy beefy as the MC version. You can kind of see it in the pic, its boxed in and welded to the subframe. Only thing is, they don't sell a kit for this, they do in-house fabrication if i remember correctly.

Also, in the pic, i have plenty of clearance against the spindle gusset but im running a wheel with 3.5BS and -38 offset.

Can't believe nobody has pics!!!NEANDERTHALS!!!!

hahaha i've given up on uploading to this site. marlin crawler gussets for pic reference just imagine all the beef and thiccness possible, then apply it to where the LCA pivots. lol

 

[bigdaddy2021]

I think of this as an insurance policy...do it if you can afford it.

I run em, and it gives me a peace of mind since i like to play in the desert more than i like playing in rock gardens.

If you buy wheels with a certain amount of backspacing and offset, you can get away with not running spacers.

Yeah, trying to avoid buying wheels if we don’t need to.

 

[JPOVS]

I have the TC weld on spindle gusset kit with swaybar mounts and Marlin Crawler cam tab kit. Tired of needing alignments.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

I have the TC weld on spindle gusset kit with swaybar mounts and Marlin Crawler cam tab kit. Tired of needing alignments.

Thanks for posting.

Just for clarity, you WE’RE tired of needing alignments? As in, the cam tab gussets solved that?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JPOVS]

It appears to have fixed it. Since I’ve done the mod I’ve only been off-roading or overlanding a few times. Been getting back into backpacking and leaving the 4Runner at home.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

no issues here (plenty of full compression hits going 30-50 both off camber and head on). i already run spacers on my trail wheels. I have a double shear UCA mount kit i want to install after that I will be gusseting my spindles. probably with the DRT kit since he's local.

i've managed to damage the UCA through bolt but not the spindle lol

thanks for the info.

Spidertrax spacers seem to be good choice, and if we went with a set of gussets, I think it's a choice between $140.00 for quality spacers, or $600-1000.00 for a new set of wheels that'll still allow 33-34's to tuck into the fenders.

We don't want to compromise safety with rock gardens and moderate rock ledges in our future (if the spacers are at risk of failing), but again, if we can avoid ditching our stock wheels, we'd prefer it.

 

[Jetboy]

What I think would be interesting to know if bent spindles have any association with poly bushings. I suspect poly bushings significantly increase the peak forces on the spindle. But most damaged may be from too hard of hits on the bump stops. So maybe softer bumps and more compression damping is the better fix.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

What I think would be interesting to know if bent spindles have any association with poly bushings. I suspect poly bushings significantly increase the peak forces on the spindle. But most damaged may be from too hard of hits on the bump stops. So maybe softer bumps and more compression damping is the better fix.

That's an interesting thought - i also find it interesting that total Chaos offers re-designed front suspension components geared towards go-fast that might adjust suspension angles, and how it actually cycles. Maybe they became aware of the problem that is perpetuated or even amplified by some of their proprietary changes, (including your suggestion about different bushing materials used)?

For example, I know that after folks install RCV CV's, some of them quickly find out that they've strengthened a somewhat "Easy" fuse to change out (stock CV's) and therefore move the failure point somewhere else upstream in the drivetrain (Ring and pinion, driveshafts, etc) when the effects of rough terrain, high speeds or oversized tires start to manifest in material failures.

 

[mrblah]

That's an interesting thought - i also find it interesting that total Chaos offers re-designed front suspension components geared towards go-fast that might adjust suspension angles, and how it actually cycles. Maybe they became aware of the problem that is perpetuated or even amplified by some of their proprietary changes, (including your suggestion about different bushing materials used)?

For example, I know that after folks install RCV CV's, some of them quickly find out that they've strengthened a somewhat "Easy" fuse to change out (stock CV's) and therefore move the failure point somewhere else upstream in the drivetrain (Ring and pinion, driveshafts, etc) when the effects of rough terrain, high speeds or oversized tires start to manifest in material failures.

Most people bend them by accidently hittng a ledge or a boulder or a big ass hole, going moderately fast in the desert.

So basically speed + immovable object = bent spindle

 

[bigdaddy2021]

Most people bend them by accidently hittng a ledge or a boulder or a big ass hole, going moderately fast in the desert.

So basically speed + immovable object = bent spindle

haha! You're probably right. I can imagine a spindle would be pretty unhappy in that case.

 

[bigdaddy2021]

Well, I’m satisfied with this data. I don’t think spindle gussets are in our near future unless we decide to go with wheels at the same time as our 34’s.

In that case, i think it’ll be, as someone else put it, for insurance purposes as the expense of the parts/labor and aftermarket wheels doesnt seem warranted unless:

1. You’re go-fasting much of the time or building a long-travel rig.
2. Running 37-40’s and running hard-core trails with big drops or big leverage.

 

[Jetboy]

Toyota raced the Baja 1000 on OEM spindles including a roll over mid race. They weren't babying it. And they used the spindle hole for the non KDSS sway bar as the mount for the limit chain. Spindles seemed to hold up okay for that vehicle. I think you'll probably be okay if you don't push harder than racing in the Baja 1000.

 

[honda250xtitan]

Toyota raced the Baja 1000 on OEM spindles including a roll over mid race. They weren't babying it. And they used the spindle hole for the non KDSS sway bar as the mount for the limit chain. Spindles seemed to hold up okay for that vehicle. I think you'll probably be okay if you don't push harder than racing in the Baja 1000.

limit strap from the spindle to the frame? i wanna see that. seems overly complicated instead of the LCA to the frame lol, but sounds about right for a manufacturer.