Best all seasons for an '02 (living in MN)

[p nut]

That is interesting about the RMC's move to only approve winter only tires. And I also read about how the "M+S" rating got pandered by virtually every tire manufacturer. Hopefully, the same won't happen to the RMA's Severe Snow rating.

I'd really like to do a mythbusters episode of my own if I can find someone with REVO's (mine are gone). That'd be an interesting test.

I know Ron H. is in Colorado. Perhaps you guys can get together and do a BFG vs. Nitto. On video, of course. :bigok:

 

[spongerx]

I'll be honest.. I didn't read everything that was said above. It was a lot.

I run the BFG TA KO's as well all year long and they were good in the winter (Montana). I did throw it in 4 wheel when I thought it would be icy. THey are a great tire but they are quite stiff because of their 3-ply side wall. Great for puncture protection but bumpy ride. Michellen has an AT2 which is a GREAT tire. You'll get more millage than the BFG and you can get it in a passenger rating which will be better as far as ride comfort. We sell heaps of them at work (costco tires) and we've had no complaints. With tires you get what you pay for. It's a 4 plus year commitment so I would spend the extra cash to get something good. Best of luck.

 

[p nut]

I'll be honest.. I didn't read everything that was said above. It was a lot.

I run the BFG TA KO's as well all year long and they were good in the winter (Montana). I did throw it in 4 wheel when I thought it would be icy. THey are a great tire but they are quite stiff because of their 3-ply side wall. Great for puncture protection but bumpy ride. Michellen has an AT2 which is a GREAT tire. You'll get more millage than the BFG and you can get it in a passenger rating which will be better as far as ride comfort. We sell heaps of them at work (costco tires) and we've had no complaints. With tires you get what you pay for. It's a 4 plus year commitment so I would spend the extra cash to get something good. Best of luck.

Personally, I would NOT spend that much for a sub-par tire. I have never been impressed with the Michelin A/T offerings. Their last LTX A/T's were ok. They lasted a looooong time (my friend had 85k on them on his 4Runner), but they were kind of the "jack of all trades, master of none" of the tire world. They weren't great off-road, on-road, in the snow, etc. They excelled at nothing, except tread wear. Pretty bland tire, if you ask me. Their AT2's have received even worse ratings on various forums and at Tirerack. And then they want $200 per tire?? Too much, if you ask me.

I'm not knocking Michelins in general, because their bike tires (Pilot Powers) were AWESOME, as were their performance tires (PS2's and 3's). I just think their A/T tires are lacking, especially for the price.

 

[Thai]

Pretty bland tire, if you ask me. Their AT2's have received even worse ratings on various forums and at Tirerack. And then they want $200 per tire?? Too much, if you ask me.

Although i won't argue that the LTX A/T-2 is expensive, i will say that i like it...IF i did not do much off-roading (esp. rockcrawling), then it would be my tire of choice. Remember, according to independent testing, the A/T-2 did in fact outperform REVOs and Goodyear Wrangler Silentarmor over all terrains, including on-road, off-road, and in the wet. So, i would indeed pick this tire over REVOs. I would probably still pick Goodyear Wrangler SA over A/T-2 (if i did moderate off-roading) simply because Wrangler SA has a more proven sidewall credential.

 

[Thai]

I have never used Michelin Cross Terrain's or Good Year's, so I cannot comment on those tires.

Anyway, here is what Tirerack has to say about tire treads on wet performance:

Directional tread designs (sometimes called Unidirectional tread designs) are frequently used on tires intended to better resist hydroplaning. Their multiple tread grooves are aligned in a repeating "V" shape to increase the tire

 

[p nut]

Although i am not doubting these water channels and how they supposedly function, you also have to remember that many good wet traction tires do not have them. My old BMW M3 had Michelin PS2 and these tires were indeed very directional, but i would not rate them particularly good in the wet...trust me, personal experience! Or take the Bridgestone Dueler H/L, which is a pure luxury highway tire...it has no such V channels...and it got an 8.8 wet traction on TR's consumer survey. Or take General Grabber HTS, which won TireRack's EDITOR'S comparison (these Editor's comparisons i respect)...it won on it's excellent wet performance...once again, it has no such V channels.

So, yeah, i guess these V-channels or aqua channels look cool and seemingly do serve a purpose. However, i can give you tons of example of tires without these water channels yet perform superbly in the wet. Again, i don't think that looking for these water channels in a tire is the only answer for someone looking for an all-season tire.

But, i will agree with you that the REVOs are better than BFG AT KO on-road and, probaby in the wet. (I too had REVOs once on my old 4runner.)

I don't think the V channels need to be there for good water traction, I agree. I think as long as there are water channels (grooves), you will have good traction. Maybe the V's help, though. All of my Bridgestone tires had V's and were excellent in the wet. (RE750, RE010, and S03's).

And FWIW, both of those tires mentioned above (Dueler H/L and Grabber HTS) mention that they have water channels.

From Tirerack:
Response Grooves provide directional guidance for improved steering and Hydro Channels eject water from between the tread and road to increase hydroplaning resistance while three types of sipes promote traction in dry, wet and wintry weather.

 

[Thai]

I think as long as there are water channels (grooves), you will have good traction. [/i]

Yeah, you got a good point there.

 

[p nut]

Although i won't argue that the LTX A/T-2 is expensive, i will say that i like it...IF i did not do much off-roading (esp. rockcrawling), then it would be my tire of choice. Remember, according to independent testing, the A/T-2 did in fact outperform REVOs and Goodyear Wrangler Silentarmor over all terrains, including on-road, off-road, and in the wet. So, i would indeed pick this tire over REVOs. I would probably still pick Goodyear Wrangler SA over A/T-2 (if i did moderate off-roading) simply because Wrangler SA has a more proven sidewall credential.

I don't know about the independent testing that was done, but this is from not my personal experience, but my father's. On his 3/4 GMC, he switched to LTX AT(or AT2's, can't remember). Already, he's had 2 accidents this year due to poor traction (never had ONE accident in 40 years of driving). His brother with REVO's has had no issues. I think it might attribute to the tire having such a high tread wear. The compound obviously has to be harder, which also means less traction. I don't know. But he definitely won't be getting them again.

Also, just by visual comparison, it seems like the AT2's have been watered-down. Look at the AT's

And the AT2's

Look at the bigger block design of the AT's vs. AT2's. The AT's really look more like a highway tire. I don't know if this was because of the consumer's complaints that these need to be more road friendly? Seems like everything (including SUV/Trucks) are heading more towards comfort on-road rather than capability off-road. So what you are saying is right--if it's an 100% road tire, it's a good choice. HOWEVER, the killer is the price. I don't think I could pay $200 a pop for those things.

One good thing about Michelins is, that they are very well balanced from the factory. Not so much with my BFG's, though...

 

[DavidAlexander]

The reason that they want to only certify the "winter" only tires is so people purchase another set of tires. This increases their sales, and hence profits.

If any tire can meet the friction requrements it should be passed. An all-terrain, all-season, studdable ice, mud-terrian, etc. should not matter to the RMA.

If they test a tire under their given guidlines and it passes, should it matter what the tire company called it? No.

Who knows, maybe thats why Bridgestone doesn't test the Revos, they want you to buy their tested blizzaks instead. (double the sales)

If that's the case I would be weary of their business practices.

 

[p nut]

The reason that they want to only certify the "winter" only tires is so people purchase another set of tires. This increases their sales, and hence profits.

I have had all season tires, summer tires, race tires, and winter tires. On packed snow (on-road), NOTHING beats dedicated snow tires (short of chains). They make a HUGE difference compared to any other tire out there. I was not a big believer until I actually tried a set many years ago. The grip, handling, braking, etc. was that much better. It's not a gimmick. Snow tires will make a big difference. I once made it up a canyon during a heavy snow storm in my old 91 BMW 325is (RWD). No way I could have made it in any other tire.

If any tire can meet the friction requrements it should be passed. An all-terrain, all-season, studdable ice, mud-terrian, etc. should not matter to the RMA.

If they test a tire under their given guidlines and it passes, should it matter what the tire company called it? No.

I agree with you there. I just wish that RMA would post the test results of their tires tested. Until then, their ratings don't mean a thing to me. I'd rather go on personal experiences and tests, and would much rather take the word of experienced members on here over their recommendations.

Who knows, maybe thats why Bridgestone doesn't test the Revos, they want you to buy their tested blizzaks instead. (double the sales)

If that's the case I would be weary of their business practices.

ANY company will try to maximize profits. I understand that there are shady companies that have unethical practices, but this certainly does not qualify as one.

 

[DavidAlexander]

Agree with p nut, the regular designated snow or winter tires will work wonders on the road in the winter. On my old Volvo I would switch to snow tires in the winter and would then drive through winter conditions all the time so I can also personally atest to the value that "snow or winter" only tires makes.

I am not saying the rating is a sham I was just theorizing at the reason that companies might not want their all-season to pass the test. It would impede on the sales of their competing "snow" tire. I am thinking some all seasons might almost pass and then discourage people from switching in the winter.

Now if they published the ratings (like you said) we could really see what tires excell in what areas and make better decisions.
Let us know if you get any answers.