Best all seasons for an '02 (living in MN)

[osiris3mc]

Hey all, I moved to Minneapolis this past March (from California) and need to change my tires before winter (and black ice) sets in. I've got a 2002 4Runner SR5 4x4. I currently have tires that perform extremely poorly in the snow and need to upgrade.

I just wanted to fit out what tires are considered the best for the winter (e.g., best traction in snow). However, I don't really want to get snow tires that I'll have to change out when winter is over; I'd rather get a great set of all seasons.

Is there a particular brand and/or model that 4Runner owners agree upon? Thanks so much!

- Matt

 

[ozana]

now depends how much you want to spend. everybody is talking about Michelin Cross Terrain.

 

[CJ3Flyr]

How much do you drive? These are genuine snows that are getting rave reviews and they're dirt cheap. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...e&partnum=67SR7FWFUV&fromCompare1=yes&place=0

The other intriguing thing that may make these a good fit is if you search reviews at Tirerack and sort by mileage people seem to get incredible mileage for a snow and they run them all year. if you drive 12k a year they're so cheap just run these. I would consider it if I needed snows and my annual mileage was low enough.


:cheers:

 

[osiris3mc]

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. I hadn't thought too much about the price. I guess that's less of an issue as I am concerned for my safety above all else. Given it's snowing/below freezing about half the year here, the cost is less of a concern for me.

As far as miles/year, I tend to do a fair bit of driving. I have family down in Omaha I visit every so often, and that's 700 miles round-trip. Also, my fiancee lives in Rochester (I live in Minneapolis), so a round-trip is around 200 miles for that. I've put on 15,000 miles including the drive from California back in March. Obviously 2,000 of that was from the drive, but I'm looking at about 20,000/year I suppose.

 

[ozana]

Given it's snowing/below freezing about half the year here,

nothing like California...

 

[osiris3mc]

nothing like California...

Yeah, I'm only out here for another year and a half (so, two winters), then back to California.

So guys, these tires need to last me two winters!

 

[shootmymime]

i have run over 100,000 miles on my Michelin A/T LTX and i am on my 2nd set now... they last really long and i know what you mean by snow! here in KC its crazy cuz i live in the country and work in town, so i know both worlds, i would highly recommend them! and in the winter i go hunting in SD and kansas, with snow, mud, rain, its the midwest, the weather can change any time

yes these tire clean them selfes out very good, in mud,grass,gravel,snow,water,

man just give up... buy these tires

 

[p nut]

Look into Bridgestone REVO's. They're a bit more spendy, but for me, I found them to be excellent in the wet and light snow on the roads. We get pounded here every winter and I drive up the the ski resorts frequently and my old 98 4Runner with the REVO's did excellent and never left me stuck. They've got good bite in the snow (thanks to the sipings) and channel water very well when raining. For an on-road tire, I don't think you can do better than REVO's. FWIW, I've had LTX A/T's, BFG's, Cooper's, and a few others.

They've also got pretty good tread wear. Keep up with the alignment, air pressure and rotation, and you should see ~60k out of them. But they'll at least last you those two winters.

EDIT:

Hey, shootmymime - they don't offer LTX A/T's anymore. The new A/T 2's have not gotten good reviews. I would not recommend the LTX A/T 2's.

 

[shootmymime]

well thanks nut, did not know that, ill look at work and see what others Michelin has that are good...

BTW, its hard to get 100,000 miles out of tires... but michelin has some good ones!

 

[2000t4rAKS]

x2 on the Bridgestone REVOs.
I have the Bridgestone Alenzas now and I have driven through all kinds of weather conditions and they are awesome but once these go, I will be getting the REVOs.

 

[DavidAlexander]

I lived in Salt Lake for a number of years and worked in the mountains. I used BFGoodrich All-Terrains for this drive and have since bought another set after moving east. They also work great in the summer or off roading. I believe they are rated to 112mph so you can still due high speed cruising. These tires are the only tire that is meant for all season AND severe snow service rated. Plus it comes in stock 265/70r16 or you can move up to 265/75r16. It also has decent siping and good treadwear not to mention being almost indestructable. If you have bad weather half the year like you said, these would be my choice hands down. I wouldn't trust my ride to any "all season" tires that don't really do anything once the temp drops and the compound gets rigid. If you are getting 100,000 miles let alone 60,000 out of your tires, the compound is probably to hard to perform well in the snow or cold temps. Just my opinion.

 

[rngesci]

X3 on the Revo's. $532 installed here in North Dakota.

Love mine thus far on my 96 runner.

 

[DavidAlexander]

Also I just researched the Revo's and they are 10 lbs lighter, 41 lbs instead of 51 lbs, and also support 2400 lbs instead of 2850 like the BFGoodrich tires. That's over 1600 lbs on a car, seems like that would make the BFG's more durable off road or under load IMO. The Revo's have the dual layer compound too, so the winter/ice traction would be great at first, but after that "soft" layer wears away, the Revo's would fall into that " rigid in the winter" all-season compound group. Just thought I would try to point out some problems I have with the REVO's because I have seen others suggest them as the holy grail of tires.

 

[p nut]

Also I just researched the Revo's and they are 10 lbs lighter, 41 lbs instead of 51 lbs, and also support 2400 lbs instead of 2850 like the BFGoodrich tires. That's over 1600 lbs on a loaded car, seems like that would make the BFG's more durable off road or under load IMO. The Revo's have the dual layer compound too, so the winter/ice traction would be great at first, but after that "soft" layer wears away, the Revo's would fall into that " rigid in the winter" all-season compound group. Just thought I would try to point out some problems I have with the REVO's because I have seen others suggest them as the holy grail of tires.

Nobody said that the REVO's were the be all, end all of tires. However, for this guy's application, it is a better choice than BFG's. I have BFG's currently and the only reason I got them was because they are better off-road. That's it. If I weren't going to be off-roading, I'd have stuck with REVO's. They channel water better and have a better on-road riding quality.

As far as load ratings, all tires have different load ranges (C, D, E), so that's not a big factor. If you're going to be hauling a lot of heavy weight, get a D or E load. Simple as that.

Lastly, all tires get "harder" as they wear. That's nothing new. They ALL do. Even BFG's.

No one's knocking BFG's, and had this guy asked about wheeling, I'd have pointed him to BFG's.

 

[DavidAlexander]

I totally agree the Revo's much better as a street tire. Hands down. I got the impression this guy is looking for a tire that is used for driving "half the year in snow or below freezing" and he doesn't want to change out in the winter. My BFG's do have dual compound tread but I dont think they wear fast at first and then slow down, mine have been pretty even throughout the life of them. That's what the Bridgestone website says about the Revo's though, "As the top layer of tread compound wears away, it reveals a second layer specifically developed to resist aging and remain pliable to retain more wet traction-even as it wears." So if he was using the Revos as an agressive street tire and then switching to winter tires in the winter that would be ideal, but I think he wants to leave a tire on all year. The shoulder grooves in the BFG's as well as the tread pattern and siping are superior in the snow to just about any highway worthy tire he can leave on year round. He also said he towed a boat, so the load rating would be a factor considering you can't order Revo's in custom higher ratings that would be comparable to the BFG's. I have also read an article about how a racing team was using 70 aspect tires on 18 inch rims with a lower load rating for a photo shoot and had multple flats all day long, so they switched to their regular tires on 15 inch wheels that had a higher load rating and aspect ratio and never had a problem the rest of the day.
So I think we agree on everything. Sorry if I came off as putting down the Revo's, THEY ARE THE BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO AT's IN A LONG TIME!

 

[p nut]

I totally agree the Revo's much better as a street tire. Hands down. I got the impression this guy is looking for a tire that is used for driving "half the year in snow or below freezing" and he doesn't want to change out in the winter. My BFG's do have dual compound tread but I dont think they wear fast at first and then slow down, mine have been pretty even throughout the life of them. That's what the Bridgestone website says about the Revo's though, "As the top layer of tread compound wears away, it reveals a second layer specifically developed to resist aging and remain pliable to retain more wet traction-even as it wears." So if he was using the Revos as an agressive street tire and then switching to winter tires in the winter that would be ideal, but I think he wants to leave a tire on all year.

Both the REVO's and BFG's will harden up as they wear. You will feel them both lose a bit of performance. This is the same case with most of the tires out there. If you think BFG's have the same performance at 100% tread compared to 50% tread, it's all in your head.

Also, I have used REVO's throughout the summer and winter months. Unless the snow was past the centercaps, the REVO's did just fine on the road. As you know, Salt Lake sees sub freezing temps throughout the winter months, and I had no problems with these tires. I don't know of a single person with REVO's that have to change them out every winter due to poor snow performance.

The shoulder grooves in the BFG's as well as the tread pattern and siping are superior to just about any highway worthy tire he can leave on year round.

You gotta be kidding. The tread pattern is definitely not superior to the REVO's for on-road driving. Big blocks with no water channels? How does that equal "superior to just about any highway worthy tire"? For off-road, that's awesome. On pavement? Not so much.

He also said he towed a boat

He did?

so the load rating would be a factor considering you can't order Revo's in custom higher ratings that would be comparable to the BFG's. I have also read an article about how a racing team was using 70 aspect tires on 18 inch rims with a lower load rating for a photo shoot and had multple flats all day long, so they switched to their regular tires on 15 inch wheels that had a higher load rating and aspect ratio and never had a problem the rest of the day

I'm saying load rating is not a factor since BOTH of the tires can be had in D or E load ranges. That means, you can get REVO's in E load range and be just fine towing or hauling whatever.

I guess I assumed that this guy wasn't going to be snow wheeling and was primarily going to be on-road, which is why I suggested REVO's. 99% of the time, when people do not specifically state that they are looking for tires for wheeling, I assume that they are going to be on pavement 99% of the time. Usually, that assumption is correct.

 

[rngesci]

I'm here in ND. I can tell you that this guy is going to see more salt than snow if he is driving roads in MN. I believe he will be in the city so he will encounter more "wet" roads than anything else. MN uses a chemical salt in liquid form for most of their road de-icing. Outside of the major Minneapolis city he is looking at sand with a high concentrate of salt mixed in.

MN standard for de-icing is probably one of the worst in terms using salt. They are PRO-SALT. It's why some people won't buy a MN vehicle because of the history they have with the amount of salt and chemicals they put on the roads.

Just take a ride down 494 or 694 in January. The highways are white, but it aint from the snow.

The only way he is going to encounter huge banks of snow or having to drive alot in snow is further north where the towns are spaced apart or if he is driving out on a lake to ice fish (MN even plows parts of the lake and have streets for the ice fisherman).

That is what he is going to see from December to March. Wet, slushy highways with alot of chemical and salt thrown on them.

 

[osiris3mc]

Hey everyone, I've been paying close attention to the discussion thus far, and I will clarify what I drive-on, how and my average usage.

I do live in Minneapolis, so, most days I am driving around town, or taking freeways. On weekends, many times I will go down to Rochester (where my fiancee lives), which is about 90 miles, most all it on freeways.

Also on select weekends, I will go "off the beaten path". I do plan on skiiing/snowboarding, and doing various outdoor activities. However, this may be once a month.

My experience on these current tires is what alarmed me. Upon moving in March, I did go through a few snowstorms which caused massive loss of traction and scared the heck out of me. Also, I was stuck in some snow (just in a parking lot) during one of the snowstorms. I had to throw it into four-wheel drive to get out.

So, I would say most of my driving is streets/roads/freeways, with the occasional detour. But, I do drive quite a bit, especially factoring in the frequent trips to Rochester on the weekends (round trip looking at almost 200 miles). I just want to make sure given the duration of freezing temps here and the frequency of snow that I am as safe as possible on the road. I'll put that before the price of the tires.

Hope this helps. I really appreciate all the information thus far. You guys are fantastic!

- Matt

 

[DavidAlexander]

Not trying to bicker or offend anyone on here just offering my opinion and experience. If I planned on going off road on the occasional hunting trip, drove on ski trips out east and drove on the streets 99.9%, I totally agree that the REVOs are the perfect choice to leave on year round. The salt crews are always out in force and any storm out east is cleaned up in a few hours. The REVO's have superior wet traction on road.
My point for him is that when you are driving in a blizzard or an ice storm, I feel the BFG's would provide the better traction to get home safely or out of a ditch. Or to help your wife or family who is stuck out in a blizzard. Or to get medical help in a blizzard when ambulances can't travel. Or drive to his girlfriend in a nighttime snowstorm. That was my point about the aggressive tread.
When I worked at Snowbird I was often one of the last cars up the canyon before it was shut down for the night and drove through "valance high snow uphill" with no problem many times. I can not say the REVOs wouldn't do that. I just KNOW the BFG's will.
That is my point to him. A tire that will outperform all other highway worthy year round tires when the conditions are that worst 1-2%.
I should add it is a safe assumption to say that because the BFG's are "Severe Snow Service" rated some will be used on all those municipal trucks plowing and spreading salt all over during the snow this winter. Not to mention private snowplows who have to use rated tires to travel under snow emergencies. I wonder how many snow/ice specific vehicles will have REVOs or other non-snow service rated tires on this winter? Probably not many.
So I think the REVOs are an excellent street based all-terrain tire that is great for the occasional dirt road and your typical street rain/snow/ice driving. Much better than almost all other tires out there for these very conditions.
The BFG All-Terrains are a Heavy Duty off road based tire that is pretty good on the street. These tires have more road noise, faster wear, worse rain channeling and worse handling on the track.
But then there are the pro's:
Its rated as a SNOW TIRE!
Excellent in deep unplowed snow on the street, winter street driving in general, snow off road, mud off road and just about any trail. Not to mention they are great aired down and virtually indestructable due to their quality tough construction. They look bad ass too. Then there is the HISTORY and the cult following that these tires have in off road communities. If you show up with BFG ATs you get instant credibility at any trail.

I don't claim these tires will outperform many on the slalom but there aren't many that top this tire for the ability to drive on the highway to a gnarly trail, air down, do the trail, air back up and drive 90 mph on the way home, even in the winter. That is what I like my tires to be able to do so I choose the BFG all-terrains like p nut.

 

[DavidAlexander]

I only ever saw the REVOs in 111 load rating offered for 265/70r16 so I apologize if you can get them in higher load ratings for that size now. The BFG's are 117/114 load rated (D) so that is why I brought it up. He told me he towed a boat in a PM.

So sorry for any hard feelings I was just trying to help and have a spirited debate. We all can have our own opinions and thats what makes this country great! I respect everyones opinion and always listen to what they have to say. I know I can't always have the answer and value the perspectives that others bring to the table!