Bilstein 5100 w/ Stock Springs vs. Toytec/OME Full Lift Kit
- Thread starter Twistedfocus
- Start date
I think that issue is more related to preloading the spring at 1.75" rather than the coils although that may play a part as well
I have a 2003 V6 SR5. I bought the 5100 all the way around and now I'm just waiting for my OME 884 and 895s to show up. Hoping to be able to run 285 70 17s. Not sure what I'll need to set the Bilsteins at so if anyone knows, I'd love help. Otherwise, I'll let you know how it goes/rides.
antemeridian
New member
Recently put 5100s all around in a 2009 TE with just under 70k miles. I put the fronts at 1.75" plus a 3/8" spacer from Wheelers, net ~2.5" lift. Rear, added a 1" Cornfed spacer.
I would have skipped the front spacer and gone to the top-notch but was advised that at 2.5" the shock rides rough.
I haven't put many miles on it since as it's not a DD, but as for me I like the ride. I don't think it feels too bouncey, but I'm I'm in the camp that believed stock was too mushy.
I would have skipped the front spacer and gone to the top-notch but was advised that at 2.5" the shock rides rough.
I haven't put many miles on it since as it's not a DD, but as for me I like the ride. I don't think it feels too bouncey, but I'm I'm in the camp that believed stock was too mushy.
About a month ago, I swapped out the stock shocks on my SR5 (84k on them) for 5100's all around on the stock springs. Front shocks were set at 1.75". No other modifications to the suspension were made.
My initial results, aside from the lift in the front which looks perfect, the shocks are much better suited to the characteristics of the truck. I didn't want a stiffly-sprung vehicle because my own driving echoes yours; I love the trail every once in a while, but I'm in rush hour traffic 5 days a week. Initially, I was a little surprised at how there didn't seem to be much difference BUT after about a 2-week period, everything settled in nicely and things really started to change for the better. It is pretty well-known that suspension upgrades take a week or two to break in. Give it a minute before you make your assessment. The ride is far, far more controlled, supple, and compliant. The combination of the kinda cushy stock springs and the stiff and controlled 5100's is ideal for day-to-day use and mild off road use, IMO.
I'm really amazed at how it's transformed the truck from a bit of a wallow-y monster into something even more nimble and comfortable. One of the other unintended benefits of this package is the radical decline in brake dive and body roll. I tell you this, both of those things are at least 75% reduced from the stock setup. That was the most apparent change once installing them. I think they're the perfect upgrade for the truck and I wish I'd done them 2 years ago when I bought the thing. They should be standard issue, IMO. Raising the truck also allowed me to install 265/70 tires, which further help the look and ride of the truck.
You want my opinion? Do 5100's all around on your stock springs and don't look back.
My initial results, aside from the lift in the front which looks perfect, the shocks are much better suited to the characteristics of the truck. I didn't want a stiffly-sprung vehicle because my own driving echoes yours; I love the trail every once in a while, but I'm in rush hour traffic 5 days a week. Initially, I was a little surprised at how there didn't seem to be much difference BUT after about a 2-week period, everything settled in nicely and things really started to change for the better. It is pretty well-known that suspension upgrades take a week or two to break in. Give it a minute before you make your assessment. The ride is far, far more controlled, supple, and compliant. The combination of the kinda cushy stock springs and the stiff and controlled 5100's is ideal for day-to-day use and mild off road use, IMO.
I'm really amazed at how it's transformed the truck from a bit of a wallow-y monster into something even more nimble and comfortable. One of the other unintended benefits of this package is the radical decline in brake dive and body roll. I tell you this, both of those things are at least 75% reduced from the stock setup. That was the most apparent change once installing them. I think they're the perfect upgrade for the truck and I wish I'd done them 2 years ago when I bought the thing. They should be standard issue, IMO. Raising the truck also allowed me to install 265/70 tires, which further help the look and ride of the truck.
You want my opinion? Do 5100's all around on your stock springs and don't look back.
Google 2nd order mechanical system and over/under damped response.
Essentially 5100's are a little overdamped on stock springs, and probably have a hair too much compression damping (I'd say more in the rear than the front by the butt dyno). But overall the road comfort isn't bad on stock springs. It's overall 100000x better than my blown XREAS setup.
I'm not sure what people are expecting just putting new dampers on, it's not going to be a mind blowing experience. The biggest benefit is actually getting some more compression travel up front, which helps on really rough roads alot (I run the fronts on the 0.8" perch).
The major reason why our vehicles have "meh" ride comfort is the huge amount of unsprung weight, which is not controlled by the shocks at all. With IRS and 20 lbs less weight at each corner, these things would ride great.
Twistedfocus
New member
Thanks for all the input guys. I'm so indecisive I'm still a little torn. I almost ordered the OME kit last night but I think that would put me a little tighter than I'd like to be on my toy budget for this month. I need tires ASAP no matter what I do because our rainy season is coming and I don't want to be hydroplaning all over the place.
I may just go ahead and do the 5100s on stock springs for now (1.75 in front), as I can always add OME fronts and Toytec rears with these shocks in the future if I have regrets. even then I'd still come in a little cheaper just because the OME dampers are so expensive. I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but I've been happy with Bilsteins in other applications.
I may just go ahead and do the 5100s on stock springs for now (1.75 in front), as I can always add OME fronts and Toytec rears with these shocks in the future if I have regrets. even then I'd still come in a little cheaper just because the OME dampers are so expensive. I'm not saying they aren't worth it, but I've been happy with Bilsteins in other applications.
On my 04 model, about 2012 I installed a cheap 4 corner "Daystar KT09115BK Comfort Ride 2.5" Strut and Coil Spring Spacer Kit", then came back soon and put Billsteins all around. THAT I loved... no more swaying in turns, rode very well on my long 90% interstate travels to hunting club. I thought it was a great upgrade at a reasonable price level for my uses. Plus saved the bucks doing it myself, no help.
>>340W posted "I'm really amazed at how it's transformed the truck from a bit of a wallow-y monster into something even more nimble and comfortable. One of the other unintended benefits of this package is the radical decline in brake dive and body roll. I tell you this, both of those things are at least 75% reduced from the stock setup. That was the most apparent change once installing them. I think they're the perfect upgrade for the truck and I wish I'd done them 2 years ago when I bought the thing."
I echo this 100%. If I would have known this, would have installed my kits when I got the truck in 2006 rather than 2012 or so. The slightly raised ride height was nice looking, and the new shocks controlled that very well.
LargeOrangeFont
New member
I have 5100s all around on my 4 runner and the front is set to 1.75 lift with stock springs. I love them. The 4Runner rode like an 80's Cadillac with the stock shocks.. it was too soft and wallowed all over the road. There was a lot more brake dive and body roll in corners than there is with the 5100s.
5100s do not ride like stock.. they are stiffer shocks and as such will stiffen the ride. if you don't want a stiffer ride, then go with OEM replacement shocks. If you want the truck to feel more nimble and have increased stability while loaded or towing, get the 5100s or HDs.
5100s do not ride like stock.. they are stiffer shocks and as such will stiffen the ride. if you don't want a stiffer ride, then go with OEM replacement shocks. If you want the truck to feel more nimble and have increased stability while loaded or towing, get the 5100s or HDs.
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Twistedfocus
New member
Well, I received my 5100s from UPS yesterday. Since I had no plans for the evening and I have 3 lifts at work I decided to go ahead and tackle it myself. Luckily a friend of mine who is an actual mechanic, not a hobbyist like myself was here tuning a car, so he stuck around to lend a hand.
Rears are simple, but those fronts can be a bear to get in and out (mainly back in) without dismantling everything. My mechanic friend tinkered around with it for a while and came up with a pretty neat trick for getting the whole shock assembly out without seperating the ball joint or even having to remove the ABS lines. That probably saved a bunch of time, making it about a 2 hour install taking our time.
Initial driving impressions are good. This truck definitely needed better shocks and the Bilsteins deliver on that. The stock springs may be just a hair overdamped with these shocks, but nowhere near as bad as I feared. Overall definitely worth it and the slight stiffness is much better than the wallowing I had before and handling is much improved. It actually feels "safer" to me now, if that makes any sense. I'm used to vehicles that handle a little tighter and this thing was just way too far off for me, even for a truck.
I think it looks a lot better even though it's only a mild leveling lift. I think it would look much better without the running bords, but the jury is still out on that. The wife likes them. I have a new set of BFG ATs on the way and should be on by the weekend (LT265/70 17).
Rears are simple, but those fronts can be a bear to get in and out (mainly back in) without dismantling everything. My mechanic friend tinkered around with it for a while and came up with a pretty neat trick for getting the whole shock assembly out without seperating the ball joint or even having to remove the ABS lines. That probably saved a bunch of time, making it about a 2 hour install taking our time.
Initial driving impressions are good. This truck definitely needed better shocks and the Bilsteins deliver on that. The stock springs may be just a hair overdamped with these shocks, but nowhere near as bad as I feared. Overall definitely worth it and the slight stiffness is much better than the wallowing I had before and handling is much improved. It actually feels "safer" to me now, if that makes any sense. I'm used to vehicles that handle a little tighter and this thing was just way too far off for me, even for a truck.
I think it looks a lot better even though it's only a mild leveling lift. I think it would look much better without the running bords, but the jury is still out on that. The wife likes them. I have a new set of BFG ATs on the way and should be on by the weekend (LT265/70 17).
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verman84
New member
Same here but with a v6. I installed the rears a week or two ago and have been waiting for decent weather to install the fronts.
Bilstein 5100s all the way around, original springs all the way around. I want to level the truck, I really don't want reverse rake. From what I've heard is that .85 is how you do that. V8s might require the next notch up. Not sure if the front end weighs more.
According to Bilstein in regards to 4th gen 4runners.
The lowest setting is stock ride height
second setting is .~85" of lift
Third setting is ~1.75" of lift
Fourth setting is ~2.5" of lift
All dependent on your spring sag and vehicle weight.
Bilstein 5100s all the way around, original springs all the way around. I want to level the truck, I really don't want reverse rake. From what I've heard is that .85 is how you do that. V8s might require the next notch up. Not sure if the front end weighs more.
According to Bilstein in regards to 4th gen 4runners.
The lowest setting is stock ride height
second setting is .~85" of lift
Third setting is ~1.75" of lift
Fourth setting is ~2.5" of lift
All dependent on your spring sag and vehicle weight.
My thoughts are the 1.75" front setting on a V6 will result in the front end being higher than the rear. The V8 is a gamble, with a heavier engine it *should* level out. I'm a V8 and really don't want the front end being higher up.
Anyone else with 5100's and stock springs chime in with some pics please!! I've been searching for weeks!
Anyone else with 5100's and stock springs chime in with some pics please!! I've been searching for weeks!
HCWatson997
New member
I’ve heard that a lot of people don’t like the stiffer valved Bilsteins with stock springs...but you’d just have to see for yourself. I decided to go with heavier duty springs
Just wanted to post an update after installing 5100's front and rear shocks with stock springs. 2008 V8 4x4 here with 110k miles. 5100's set to 1.75" in front. Completely removed the x-reas system and lines (what a mess!).
Measurements from ground to fender (at center of wheel)
Before:
LF 33.25" RF 33"
LR 35.75" RR 36"
After (approx 50miles of driving):
LF 35" RF 35"
LR 35.2" RR 36"
Gain of 2” in front and 0 in rear. Pretty much as expected. The truck is pretty much level at this point however I’m wondering after loading cargo/camping gear etc I may end up with a negative rake (don’t want). We’ll see!
NOTES:
Interesting to see the LR at a lower height - maybe fuel load difference? Alignment came out perfectly with nothing out of specs after. No rubbing issues at this time with 265-65-18 Limited wheels. Overall impression of the 5100's is good. With using the stock springs the ride hasn't drastically changed (which is perfect for me). I notice less body roll in cornering and less nose dive under braking.
Measurements from ground to fender (at center of wheel)
Before:
LF 33.25" RF 33"
LR 35.75" RR 36"
After (approx 50miles of driving):
LF 35" RF 35"
LR 35.2" RR 36"
Gain of 2” in front and 0 in rear. Pretty much as expected. The truck is pretty much level at this point however I’m wondering after loading cargo/camping gear etc I may end up with a negative rake (don’t want). We’ll see!
NOTES:
Interesting to see the LR at a lower height - maybe fuel load difference? Alignment came out perfectly with nothing out of specs after. No rubbing issues at this time with 265-65-18 Limited wheels. Overall impression of the 5100's is good. With using the stock springs the ride hasn't drastically changed (which is perfect for me). I notice less body roll in cornering and less nose dive under braking.
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Terminator03
New member
Looks really good!
