Bilstein 5100 w/ Stock Springs vs. Toytec/OME Full Lift Kit

[Twistedfocus]

While I see a ton of useful info on lifts, I notice a lot of full lift vs full lift debate, but not 5100 + stock coils vs full lift. I run on the road 90% of the time. I do some remote camping occasionally and might want to get in on some local trail rides here in Central Florida. Nothing serious, and it's primarily a commuter.

My initial plan was to level the front by using Bilstein 5100s all around with the front set to 1.75" lift. I think that will clear my tire of choice, BFG AT in 265/70 17. Some of my friends are trying to talk me into a full Toytec/OME 3/2" lift kit. While I'm sure a complete matched lift with proper coils is the less "half-assed" way, many people seem to really like the 5100s with stock coils too.

What has been your collective experience? Anyone have the 5100s only and wish they had done a full lift kit? Good ride quality is a must-have also. Slightly stiffer but well controlled is fine, I'm just not looking to go too rough on the ride. That's the main reason I'm looking at these 2 options, as they both have a reputation for good ride quality. Factory feels a bit under-damped to me actually. Not sure if it's just too soft a valving in the shocks, too soft a spring, or just the fact it all has 100k miles on it. I just don't want to have regrets and end up buying twice. That said, keep in mind I'm not planning to cross Moab with this thing either... unless the zombies come...:gun6:

 

[ncpinz]

My 3" 5100 and Toytec lift is on my FJC. Ride is very similar to stock with only a slight increase in stiffness. Very smooth on road and off. I am super pleased with it. I have no experience with running 5100s and stock springs on either a Runner or FJC.

 

[Hapeacres]

I run 5100 with stock springs and am rather dissapointed. For all the talk on here how great the 5100 is, I didnt really see any difference. I would go with the lift upgrade.

 

[blackoutt]

I chose 5100's set at 1.75 with FJ springs all around, and 5100's in the rear. I think it rides awesome plus I couldn't justify the extra money for the ability to go 1" higher at the moment. Would rather save it for a real lift later on.

 

[ben550]

I run 5100 with stock springs and am rather dissapointed. For all the talk on here how great the 5100 is, I didnt really see any difference. I would go with the lift upgrade.

How many miles were on the shocks when you replaced with 5100s?

 

[chompster4runner]

I run 5100 with stock springs and am rather dissapointed. For all the talk on here how great the 5100 is, I didnt really see any difference. I would go with the lift upgrade.

Ditto.....

 

[Twistedfocus]

I run 5100 with stock springs and am rather dissapointed. For all the talk on here how great the 5100 is, I didnt really see any difference. I would go with the lift upgrade.

Ditto.....

What did you guys dislike about them? Just wanted more lift or poor ride quality, etc?

 

[chompster4runner]

What did you guys dislike about them? Just wanted more lift or poor ride quality

It's stiffer than stock for sure. But I don't like how it rides on the freeway when the roads get rough. Gets jumpy. My sig says fj/tacoma springs but those were swapped out a long time ago. It's just a tad bit better with the stocks. That's just my 2 cents.

Or it's just my truck. Who knows....lol:keyboard:

 

[Hapeacres]

147K were on the stock springs. My bad- I thought the 5100 all the way around would make things better. I should have purchased some springs for the FJ at the time but they are very expensive.

 

[CXS]

This is the first time I've heard people that are not impressed with Bilstein's. Among people I know they are typically avoided since so many people experienced failures with them. I have never used them myself being an Old Man Emu fan and maybe the displeasure relates more to off-road use which is a whole different thing than pavement use but it sure sounds like they may not live up to expectations these days.

 

[Twistedfocus]

This is the first time I've heard people that are not impressed with Bilstein's...it sure sounds like they may not live up to expectations these days.

I'm starting to see that trend also. This is exactly the kind of first-hand input I am looking for. Keep m'em coming guys. Thanks.

 

[bergs]

Go full OME and be done with it.
Been on a 3" lift for about 2 years and am very pleased so far. Not too choppy over road bumps and responsive enough to soak up big stuff without disconnecting from the ground.

 

[Hapeacres]

I just thought the 5100's would be a lot smoother on every day driving going over bumps but really did not see any difference. I thought since the truck had 147K it was time for an upgrade on old 8 year old shocks. I think if I had replaced the springs with the FJ as people recommend, that would have made the difference. I remember one time replacing my shocks for some cheap Monroe's at Sears on my old Explorer and I was amazed at how much better it was. I was hoping for the same ride quality, but my truck still bounces around and is not very smooth going over bumps. The 5100 did very little to improve anything- just my experience.

 

[Twistedfocus]

Go full OME and be done with it.
Been on a 3" lift for about 2 years and am very pleased so far. Not too choppy over road bumps and responsive enough to soak up big stuff without disconnecting from the ground.

That's kinda where I'm at. I want to lift it a little, but I'm trying to be realistic about what I need for a DD also.

I can get the 5100s for about $350 and clear the tire I want with stock springs, but I don't want to end up with an over-damped/under-sprung suspension. Maybe I could throw some FJ coils on there to make it a bit better, but it still seems half-assed. I've learned over the years modifying sports cars that the spring rate and shock valving need to be pretty congruent for maximum performance and ride quality.

Even though the full kit is over twice the price (~$1000), at least I know it's matched components and it's nice to have new springs to replace my possibly worn high mileage springs. I can afford the lift, but if I do the massively cheaper 5100s instead it's like I get the tires for "free".

 

[Twistedfocus]

I just thought the 5100's would be a lot smoother on every day driving going over bumps but really did not see any difference. I thought since the truck had 147K it was time for an upgrade on old 8 year old shocks. I think if I had replaced the springs with the FJ as people recommend, that would have made the difference. I remember one time replacing my shocks for some cheap Monroe's at Sears on my old Explorer and I was amazed at how much better it was. I was hoping for the same ride quality, but my truck still bounces around and is not very smooth going over bumps. The 5100 did very little to improve anything- just my experience.

This helps alot. It sorta confirms my suspicions that it's probably not just the shock valving that's a little too soft from the factory. The factory springs are likely too soft for as heavy as these vehicles are. Common with SUVs, as the factory is trying to make a truck ride like a Cadillac by reducing the spring rate. Adding a sport shock to an undersprung vehicle does little to help the handling. So it sounds like 5100s by themselves really only offer the ability to fit the larger tires I want but no perceived improvement in ride quality. That's not Bilstein's fault, as much as it is Toyota (if my assumption is true).

 

[ktom3001]

I have newly installed 5100's with tacoma springs set at 1.75" and I'm not super impressed. Previously had FJ coils/shocks w/budget boost which rode amazing compared to stock but I wanted another inch or so of lift and this seemed a good way to get there. Seems like a lot of folks on here really tout the 5100's.
Since this is my DD and I clock more than 20k miles a year, the ride is important. 5100's are just way too rough even on small bumps its feels like the truck is bouncing around. Reading over on Tacoma forums it sounds like they all recommend .85 setting max, otherwise there's just to much preload on the spring. I may end up trying this as the Taco springs netted more lift than I anticipated anyway.

 

[Twistedfocus]

5100's are just way too rough even on small bumps its feels like the truck is bouncing around.

I bet the 5100 shock valving is simply too tight for OEM springs rates. With properly matched spring/damper combo, even a fairly stiffly valved damper can ride decent if it's correct for the spring rate. If you only have one or the other, ride quality suffers because the springs aren't being damped properly.

 

[blackoutt]

I like the increased stiffness of the 5100 + FJ spring at 1.75 but I also thought the stock shocks and springs (85k miles) were WAYYYY to mushy. I'm concerned as well about the ride if I go to the 2.5 setting on the 5100's so when these tires wear out I'm thinking I'll go to OME 884's at the .85 setting and bigger tires at that point

 

[RCFJ]

I get how the valving in shocks should be tuned to match the vehicle but to me a spring is a spring...i don't really understand how they are tuned to match a vehicle or a shock.

Ive got a set of 5100's and was wanting to leave em at 0" and buy either the OME 883 or toytec's eibach 620. Toytec and ome say don't use ome coil w/ bilstein shock, use the eibach, but not sure why. The OME is more what I'm looking for, a little softer and not quite as much lift. I know a lot of people have run this setup, especially on tacoma forum, but is there any reason why the eibach + 5100 would ride nicer since the two are supposedly matched for each other?

883 are 14.76in @590lb (1.5in of lift)

Eibach are 15.125in @620lb (1.6in of lift)

 

[Twistedfocus]

I get how the valving in shocks should be tuned to match the vehicle but to me a spring is a spring...i don't really understand how they are tuned to match a vehicle or a shock.

I'm no engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

This is the way I see it: The spring is primarily what needs to be matched to the weight and intended use of the vehicle. The shocks simply serve the purpose of dampening the spring throughout its travel. This is why putting stiff shocks on a sports car with stock springs doesn't work nearly as well as when the shocks are paired up with a higher rate set of springs. Stiff shocks over-dampen the soft spring and can make it ride rough. The reverse can be true also, if you go to significantly higher spring rate with stock shocks, you end up under-dampening the spring and get a bouncy ride. The goal is to have the valving matched close enough that the spring is properly damped.