Black798's 98 limited build thread
- Thread starter Black798
- Start date
Chuckles89
New member
Let me know and I'll go with!!
Chuckles89
New member
I was on the Morrison Jeep Trail on the 22nd! Just did the top few miles till this mud bog because we were solo...
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/149534540@N03/42400945110/in/dateposted-public/" title="DCN_4596_7_8_Natural"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1852/42400945110_c20329f172_c.jpg" width="800" height="532" alt="DCN_4596_7_8_Natural"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Black798
New member
The dry conditions were definitely a major factor in how things went from good to totally F'ed up in a hurry. But looking at the videos spotter error is what caused the FJ situation. He has close to 300lbs of shit on the roof and it's mostly rearward so it likes to wheelstand. The spotters didn't understand that and tried to have him drive through a wheelstand and when the rear tires slipped it just pivoted and slid down off the trail getting stopped by that well-placed sagebrush.
I was under much the impression you were though. Driving the whole thing I was thinking to myself "why is this trail so talked about, its a cake walk." I didn't touch the locker once all day other than when I was pulling the FJ and walked up everything. I made most of the turns in one shot too.
If and when you guys make it out to do that let me know. I'll come down and play tour guide
Seeing your's and [MENTION=129084]Flemster[/MENTION]'s pictures from that section I'm totally amazed at how fast the conditions changed. We ran it a week and a half after Alex and his crew and that big mud hole was nothing more than 2 6 inch ruts all the way through. It's insanely dry up there now.
Black798
New member
Having ran both Black Bear and Morrison now I really feel like its a toss up between the 2. I think the exposure on BB is much worse, Morrison at least has some room for error. But the terrain is very similar in terms of traction and Morrison you are fighting gravity.
You guys definitely took the same fork I did. I couldn't tell which one was the right trail to follow and I didn't have the map downloaded so I just went with the route that I could see taking the most direct route. I took some doing but I was pretty well committed to that route by the time things got tough. There was a storm rolling in and I wanted to make it over before the lightning showed up.
Scramble
New member
Awsome report! I have a fear of heights & some of those switchbacks would have freaked me out. But I'd like to think that my many years of driving wouldn't put me in one of those recovery situations. No roof rack or RTT for me, being lifted makes you tippy enough. Glad everyone made it through ok. :first:
habanero
Senior Member
Lightning up there freaks me out!
My husband hadn't driven it in that direction before and the switchback is hidden by trees until you get really close but the wrong trail is right there right there. That's his 99 in the front.
I'd driven this direction before and knew to look for it but still followed him a short way. It wasn't feeling right, then he said the trail was getting tighter and I knew to back up that little bit and go to the right behind those pines and up the hill. He said the left trail had a mud-bog.
It's a little confusing there and later when you get near the pass with all the rogue go-rounds, isn't it?
Flemster
Member
The main thing about Black Bear is that it is really close to help if it ever goes bad to worse.. Morrison, you are on your own... not many people come through there and if something happened on the switchbacks you are hours from a close town and at least an hour from cell service.
Black798
New member
Been having a major case of the T4R.org laziness lately. But Im getting ready to do a few big things to the truck so figured I should get this caught up. Honestly haven't been doing much to the truck other than daily driving it but Ive been staying busy working on other peoples trucks and going to class.
Over the last few weeks I have helped to fit 35s on my friend's 5th gen and another friend's Fj cruiser.
Been getting real good at the pinch weld shave and BMC that you have to do on these newer trucks. The body mount was later capped off but just didnt have it done in this picture.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/42981465210/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0489"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1850/42981465210_2207e64b9d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0489"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get either one of these trucks to 100% clear but it would have required A LOT of cutting to do so, especially on the 5th gen. And since neither one of the owners minded the rubbing at full stuff and turned we just left it alone.
On the bright side though I was able to try the 35s on my 4runner and to my surprise, they won't take nearly as much work to clear as I thought initially.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44792815741/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0417"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/44792815741_cf9fd17a5c_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0417"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922133018/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0415"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1867/30922133018_5f5cd8fe4e_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0415"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Also tried on another friend's set of 37" treps he has for his jdm bj74 he's restoring.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43882781255/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0403"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1899/43882781255_c8bea598bd_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMAG0403"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I also designed a set of brackets to retrofit LED turn signals and LED fog lights into the newer ARB bumpers that use the stupid plastic inserts. They require drilling 8 holes per side and one small cut to be made to the bumper.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922021478/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0079"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1857/30922021478_a0567c1c60_b.jpg" width="1024" height="658" alt="IMG_0079"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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These are now for sale on my website so if you know anyone looking for something like this send them my way. 250$ for a set and comes with lights, hardware, and the drill bit/allen key for the bolts.
So now onto the big things coming to the truck...
First thing has already been done, I purchased a Rocky Mountain Racks Matterhorn during [MENTION=129084]Flemster[/MENTION]s labor day sale and installed it last weekend. I decided to go with the raw aluminum look and sanded the sides to get a brushed look and then clear coated them. I love how it turned out
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44743409282/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0096"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/44743409282_f6ccd15a9d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="653" alt="IMG_0096"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922061498/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0120"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1893/30922061498_6c21ac378e_b.jpg" width="1024" height="664" alt="IMG_0120"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44743415362/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0111"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1888/44743415362_df885dbeb5_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0111"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922069048/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0106"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1848/30922069048_81c76e1795_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0106"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
So looking into the next few months...
I have a whole bunch of lights coming for the rack so I need to get those installed and wired which will require some major work to be done to my switch system. And for some reason, Im excited about doing the wiring, its very tedious but very satisfying.
I also will finally be able to do the rear 3 link and fix the crushed axle link mount, Ive been waiting on a few parts for close to a month but they should be here next week.
The last bigger thing Ill be doing before the winter is adding a snorkle, while the deckplate mod has worked for an air intake its far less than ideal. I really hate the look of the snorkel but this is more of a function over form situation. Im sure Ill get used to it.
Over the last few weeks I have helped to fit 35s on my friend's 5th gen and another friend's Fj cruiser.
Been getting real good at the pinch weld shave and BMC that you have to do on these newer trucks. The body mount was later capped off but just didnt have it done in this picture.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/42981465210/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0489"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1850/42981465210_2207e64b9d_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0489"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44792811101/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0445"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1863/44792811101_6fc4126ce4_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0445"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get either one of these trucks to 100% clear but it would have required A LOT of cutting to do so, especially on the 5th gen. And since neither one of the owners minded the rubbing at full stuff and turned we just left it alone.
On the bright side though I was able to try the 35s on my 4runner and to my surprise, they won't take nearly as much work to clear as I thought initially.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44792815741/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0417"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/44792815741_cf9fd17a5c_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0417"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922133018/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0415"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1867/30922133018_5f5cd8fe4e_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0415"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Also tried on another friend's set of 37" treps he has for his jdm bj74 he's restoring.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43882781255/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMAG0403"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1899/43882781255_c8bea598bd_b.jpg" width="1024" height="768" alt="IMAG0403"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I also designed a set of brackets to retrofit LED turn signals and LED fog lights into the newer ARB bumpers that use the stupid plastic inserts. They require drilling 8 holes per side and one small cut to be made to the bumper.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922021478/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0079"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1857/30922021478_a0567c1c60_b.jpg" width="1024" height="658" alt="IMG_0079"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44743372292/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0080"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1875/44743372292_55c042f035_b.jpg" width="1024" height="658" alt="IMG_0080"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44073259864/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0075"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1859/44073259864_70b9562720_b.jpg" width="1024" height="657" alt="IMG_0075"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
These are now for sale on my website so if you know anyone looking for something like this send them my way. 250$ for a set and comes with lights, hardware, and the drill bit/allen key for the bolts.
So now onto the big things coming to the truck...
First thing has already been done, I purchased a Rocky Mountain Racks Matterhorn during [MENTION=129084]Flemster[/MENTION]s labor day sale and installed it last weekend. I decided to go with the raw aluminum look and sanded the sides to get a brushed look and then clear coated them. I love how it turned out
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44743409282/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0096"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1900/44743409282_f6ccd15a9d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="653" alt="IMG_0096"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922061498/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0120"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1893/30922061498_6c21ac378e_b.jpg" width="1024" height="664" alt="IMG_0120"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44743415362/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0111"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1888/44743415362_df885dbeb5_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0111"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30922069048/in/album-72157686600194093/" title="IMG_0106"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1848/30922069048_81c76e1795_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0106"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
So looking into the next few months...
I have a whole bunch of lights coming for the rack so I need to get those installed and wired which will require some major work to be done to my switch system. And for some reason, Im excited about doing the wiring, its very tedious but very satisfying.
I also will finally be able to do the rear 3 link and fix the crushed axle link mount, Ive been waiting on a few parts for close to a month but they should be here next week.
The last bigger thing Ill be doing before the winter is adding a snorkle, while the deckplate mod has worked for an air intake its far less than ideal. I really hate the look of the snorkel but this is more of a function over form situation. Im sure Ill get used to it.
AssBurns
New member
I love me a set of Bias Ply Treps, and to have them in 37's makes me want to empty my bank account and start cutting everything on the truck again. Never gonna happen but it looks great on your rig! Event if it was only temporary.
Black798
New member
So as many of you who follow me on Instagram know, I recently redid my rear suspension setup and converted it to a 3 link. So before I get into the tech portion here's a little background on the project, why I decided to go this route, and what my goals for it were. If you don't like reading then this post won't be for you, there's a lot of info.
So I do not run sway bars on my truck, I snapped the rear one in half and the front originally had disconnects but they were a pain in the ass to hook up anytime it wasn't totally dry and when they were hooked up they always rattled and clunked. As a result of the no sway bars I had a ton of body roll, so much so that I was consistently putting a tire in the air when I was going around corners and driving mountain passes were downright scary. So there's issue number one, too much body roll
Issue number 2, terrible geometry and roll steer. I only have about 3 inches of lift on my truck in the rear but even with a relatively small amount of lift, it was enough to really screw with the geometry. With my 10 inch stroke shocks and roughly 17 inches of articulation in the rear when the axle fully flexes the axle would be pulled so far out of alignment by the giant amount of roll steer that my tire that was being stuffed would be jammed almost totally into the rear of the wheel well and the drooped tire would be pulled forward and basically under my slider. Sound familiar? I'm sure it does. This was also really present when I was driving especially on the highway and amplified by the excessive body roll, anytime I would go through a turn at speed I could feel the rear end shift and grab forcing me into the turn almost like rear steer. Doesn't sound that bad but sitting in the drivers seat was super sketchy.
So issue three, the rear links. Late last year I swapped out my lower control arm bushings in favor of SPC x axis flex joints. I did this because they were sealed and low maintenance. Well, this proved to be a mistake. By July of this year they were starting to wear out and on a big trip in Colorado about a mile into Engineer pass the races completely failed causing a significant amount of slop and a huge clunk anytime I hit a bump in the road.
So if you're following along Ive got 3 major issues with my rear suspension and it was only getting worse. Late July I was looking at getting it fixed and at the time Josh of 530 motorsports was running a special on his solid aluminum links that I decided to get in on. As luck would have it I ran chinamans gulch the day after ordering the links and did this.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44304564855/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0274"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1941/44304564855_7c34d5711b_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0274"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
So at this point replacing the rear mounts is a must since the mounts had been so smashed and mangled over the years that I couldn't get the joints out. Well if I'm going to replace the mounts I might as well gain some clearance, but to do that I have to rework all the geometry. Enter the 3 link. I choose to go with a 3 link because I do not plan on running the f150 fuel tank for a few reasons but mostly due to the fact it is kind of a pain to make work with the stock fuel gauge and just adds a potential point of failure on the trail. I've learned to wheel with the stock tank and it has proven to actually be helpful when snow wheeling due to the floatation. After talking with [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] and bouncing some ideas off him I started playing around with the 3 link calculator.
First was measuring the stock setup to get a baseline and here is where it measured out to be
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44494108084/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (5)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1946/44494108084_b070a99c9f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (5)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
As you can see the geometry is pretty shitty, the roll axis angle in particular, 10 degrees is incredibly high, and that's only with a 3 inch lift!
So after spending a lot of time under the truck measuring what was feasible to change and with an overall goal of decreasing roll steer and body roll I settled on this design that moves the lower frame mounts up and forward 1 inch, the lower axle mounts up and forward 1 inch. and the frame side upper down and forward 1.5 inches.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276926727/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (6)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1922/30276926727_ce3f225908_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (6)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
This provided much less roll steer, and also got the anti-squat back into a more desirable range.
So onto the fabrication side of things...
First up was correcting the panhard, as we all know the panhard geometry gets way out of wack even with a small lift. I knew that with my extended [MENTION=146407]Plastics guy[/MENTION] bumps I had the room to correct the height by only lifting the axle side mount, by 2.5 inches to be exact.
By doing this I accomplished two things, first I moved the roll center up by roughly an inch which makes a huge difference in the amount of body roll the truck has because it shortens the distance between the roll center and the center of gravity which I have estimated to by roughly 36 inches on my truck. The second thing this accomplished was leveling the bar. This is super important because it puts the bar back at the longest point at ride height. This measurement of the peak arc width is the saggita. The sagitta is the vertical line from the midpoint of the chord to the arc itself. It is a measure of the 'height' of the arc. The length of the chord, sagitta and radius of the arc are inter-related, and if you know any two you can calculate the third. Thats the official definition for those who care. But its also what causes the "dog wag" many experience after a lift, since the bar isnt level the arc it travels in is larger causing the vehicle to shift or "wag" side to side
In addition to raising the bar mount I extended it by an inch to get the axle perfectly centered. This was more for personal preference because I hated seeing the axle off centered at ride height
Here's a really good video that explains the panhard system really well and is what I used as a guide for setting mine up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8
Here's my raised bracket and extended bar
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<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/31341711438/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0284"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1915/31341711438_33ff6acc44_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0284"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I later filled that gap in with weld and ground smooth. The solid bar inside also extends 6 inches in either way, rest assured it is plenty strong.
So I do not run sway bars on my truck, I snapped the rear one in half and the front originally had disconnects but they were a pain in the ass to hook up anytime it wasn't totally dry and when they were hooked up they always rattled and clunked. As a result of the no sway bars I had a ton of body roll, so much so that I was consistently putting a tire in the air when I was going around corners and driving mountain passes were downright scary. So there's issue number one, too much body roll
Issue number 2, terrible geometry and roll steer. I only have about 3 inches of lift on my truck in the rear but even with a relatively small amount of lift, it was enough to really screw with the geometry. With my 10 inch stroke shocks and roughly 17 inches of articulation in the rear when the axle fully flexes the axle would be pulled so far out of alignment by the giant amount of roll steer that my tire that was being stuffed would be jammed almost totally into the rear of the wheel well and the drooped tire would be pulled forward and basically under my slider. Sound familiar? I'm sure it does. This was also really present when I was driving especially on the highway and amplified by the excessive body roll, anytime I would go through a turn at speed I could feel the rear end shift and grab forcing me into the turn almost like rear steer. Doesn't sound that bad but sitting in the drivers seat was super sketchy.
So issue three, the rear links. Late last year I swapped out my lower control arm bushings in favor of SPC x axis flex joints. I did this because they were sealed and low maintenance. Well, this proved to be a mistake. By July of this year they were starting to wear out and on a big trip in Colorado about a mile into Engineer pass the races completely failed causing a significant amount of slop and a huge clunk anytime I hit a bump in the road.
So if you're following along Ive got 3 major issues with my rear suspension and it was only getting worse. Late July I was looking at getting it fixed and at the time Josh of 530 motorsports was running a special on his solid aluminum links that I decided to get in on. As luck would have it I ran chinamans gulch the day after ordering the links and did this.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44304564855/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0274"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1941/44304564855_7c34d5711b_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0274"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
So at this point replacing the rear mounts is a must since the mounts had been so smashed and mangled over the years that I couldn't get the joints out. Well if I'm going to replace the mounts I might as well gain some clearance, but to do that I have to rework all the geometry. Enter the 3 link. I choose to go with a 3 link because I do not plan on running the f150 fuel tank for a few reasons but mostly due to the fact it is kind of a pain to make work with the stock fuel gauge and just adds a potential point of failure on the trail. I've learned to wheel with the stock tank and it has proven to actually be helpful when snow wheeling due to the floatation. After talking with [MENTION=118730]AssBurns[/MENTION] and bouncing some ideas off him I started playing around with the 3 link calculator.
First was measuring the stock setup to get a baseline and here is where it measured out to be
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44494108084/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (5)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1946/44494108084_b070a99c9f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (5)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
As you can see the geometry is pretty shitty, the roll axis angle in particular, 10 degrees is incredibly high, and that's only with a 3 inch lift!
So after spending a lot of time under the truck measuring what was feasible to change and with an overall goal of decreasing roll steer and body roll I settled on this design that moves the lower frame mounts up and forward 1 inch, the lower axle mounts up and forward 1 inch. and the frame side upper down and forward 1.5 inches.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276926727/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (6)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1922/30276926727_ce3f225908_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (6)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
This provided much less roll steer, and also got the anti-squat back into a more desirable range.
So onto the fabrication side of things...
First up was correcting the panhard, as we all know the panhard geometry gets way out of wack even with a small lift. I knew that with my extended [MENTION=146407]Plastics guy[/MENTION] bumps I had the room to correct the height by only lifting the axle side mount, by 2.5 inches to be exact.
By doing this I accomplished two things, first I moved the roll center up by roughly an inch which makes a huge difference in the amount of body roll the truck has because it shortens the distance between the roll center and the center of gravity which I have estimated to by roughly 36 inches on my truck. The second thing this accomplished was leveling the bar. This is super important because it puts the bar back at the longest point at ride height. This measurement of the peak arc width is the saggita. The sagitta is the vertical line from the midpoint of the chord to the arc itself. It is a measure of the 'height' of the arc. The length of the chord, sagitta and radius of the arc are inter-related, and if you know any two you can calculate the third. Thats the official definition for those who care. But its also what causes the "dog wag" many experience after a lift, since the bar isnt level the arc it travels in is larger causing the vehicle to shift or "wag" side to side
In addition to raising the bar mount I extended it by an inch to get the axle perfectly centered. This was more for personal preference because I hated seeing the axle off centered at ride height
Here's a really good video that explains the panhard system really well and is what I used as a guide for setting mine up
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liR1--EHMg8
Here's my raised bracket and extended bar
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45165237092/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0163"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/45165237092_bcb93dd13b_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0163"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/31341711438/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0284"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1915/31341711438_33ff6acc44_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0284"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I later filled that gap in with weld and ground smooth. The solid bar inside also extends 6 inches in either way, rest assured it is plenty strong.
Last edited:
Black798
New member
So with the panhard addressed it was onto the axle mounts. First up was the upper mount since I would be reusing the stock axle mount.
I didnt want my mount to look like [MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] so I spent some time reinforcing the sides and adding a gusset. I also added ruff stuff weld washers just like all the other mounts so the holes will never oval out.
[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] mount for reference
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215468721/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="e5EOL49"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1904/45215468721_8b0c4e9b11_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="e5EOL49"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Beefed up stock mount
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44493923574/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0159"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1965/44493923574_cab1c622bc_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0159"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215538611/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0566"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1966/45215538611_3f9d6855ed_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0566"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
With things sorted on the axle side mount and all the stock brackets cut off from the frame, fyi an air chisel will be your best friend when removing the lower link rock catchers, I put the axle under the truck and started mocking up the rest of the 1/4 inch steel mounts. Now, here's where I don't have many pictures or much to say. A lot of it was just hours moving things around, cycling the suspension, and repeating until it all worked perfectly. So if you have questions ask away, I'll be more than happy to answer them
So here are some more pictures
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215583271/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0169"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1927/45215583271_56f671aa14_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0169"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Trashed Spc joints
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43402696890/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0562"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1963/43402696890_1589bf30a6_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0562"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45165236872/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0155"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/45165236872_1059007db1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0155"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Under its own weight
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215583591/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0176"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1958/45215583591_bed5862f1d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0176"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44493922934/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0179"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1938/44493922934_7d71bb7bdd_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0179"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Links mocked up
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276696327/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0168"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1980/30276696327_a37a04cd53_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0168"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Old links next to the new ones. I used metal cloak bushings in the lowers and 2-inch ballistic joints in the uppers
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45165223912/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_20181006_183029_173"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1952/45165223912_e486be1144_b.jpg" width="576" height="1024" alt="IMG_20181006_183029_173"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
And lastly, after checking the measurements here is the final geometry. Slightly higher antisquat than I wanted but it drives well and everything else is pretty close to where I wanted it
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276926307/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (7)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1918/30276926307_92d96d6272_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (7)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Thats all the pictures I feel are relevant but the rest of the album can be found on my flicker page
So how does it drive? Its a totally different truck, my body roll has been at the least cut in half if not more, it drives better now than it did with the front bar on. I have also noticed I now have a bit of understeer, but I think this is because I have significantly less roll steer which is fantastic. Its an absolute dream on the highway, tracks straight and just feels super solid.
So as of now that's all I have, I haven't gotten to test much with the truck, just daily driving and some rough dirt roads, but in the next week or so Ill have some more feedback on how it turned out. I also am thinking of making a mount kit for this if there is enough interest. So Ill let you guys ask away with questions now.
I didnt want my mount to look like [MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] so I spent some time reinforcing the sides and adding a gusset. I also added ruff stuff weld washers just like all the other mounts so the holes will never oval out.
[MENTION=143526]theesotericone[/MENTION] mount for reference
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215468721/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="e5EOL49"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1904/45215468721_8b0c4e9b11_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="e5EOL49"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Beefed up stock mount
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44493923574/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0159"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1965/44493923574_cab1c622bc_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0159"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215538611/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0566"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1966/45215538611_3f9d6855ed_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0566"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
With things sorted on the axle side mount and all the stock brackets cut off from the frame, fyi an air chisel will be your best friend when removing the lower link rock catchers, I put the axle under the truck and started mocking up the rest of the 1/4 inch steel mounts. Now, here's where I don't have many pictures or much to say. A lot of it was just hours moving things around, cycling the suspension, and repeating until it all worked perfectly. So if you have questions ask away, I'll be more than happy to answer them
So here are some more pictures
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215583271/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0169"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1927/45215583271_56f671aa14_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0169"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Trashed Spc joints
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43402696890/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMAG0562"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1963/43402696890_1589bf30a6_b.jpg" width="768" height="1024" alt="IMAG0562"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45165236872/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0155"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/45165236872_1059007db1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0155"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Under its own weight
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45215583591/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0176"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1958/45215583591_bed5862f1d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0176"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44493922934/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0179"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1938/44493922934_7d71bb7bdd_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0179"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Links mocked up
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276696327/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_0168"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1980/30276696327_a37a04cd53_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0168"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Old links next to the new ones. I used metal cloak bushings in the lowers and 2-inch ballistic joints in the uppers
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45165223912/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="IMG_20181006_183029_173"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1952/45165223912_e486be1144_b.jpg" width="576" height="1024" alt="IMG_20181006_183029_173"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
And lastly, after checking the measurements here is the final geometry. Slightly higher antisquat than I wanted but it drives well and everything else is pretty close to where I wanted it
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/30276926307/in/album-72157702047434914/" title="Screenshot (7)"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1918/30276926307_92d96d6272_b.jpg" width="1024" height="576" alt="Screenshot (7)"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Thats all the pictures I feel are relevant but the rest of the album can be found on my flicker page
So how does it drive? Its a totally different truck, my body roll has been at the least cut in half if not more, it drives better now than it did with the front bar on. I have also noticed I now have a bit of understeer, but I think this is because I have significantly less roll steer which is fantastic. Its an absolute dream on the highway, tracks straight and just feels super solid.
So as of now that's all I have, I haven't gotten to test much with the truck, just daily driving and some rough dirt roads, but in the next week or so Ill have some more feedback on how it turned out. I also am thinking of making a mount kit for this if there is enough interest. So Ill let you guys ask away with questions now.
Last edited:
Black798
New member
Yes I did, the stock mount was cut off and a new one, also made of 1/4 inch steel, was welded on 1 inch lower and 1 inch further forward than the original mount.
Black798
New member
Last weekend I head down to Moab for the Tacoma world rock therapy event to meet up with [MENTION=129084]Flemster[/MENTION], [MENTION=107971]derpiful[/MENTION], [MENTION=57546]4-Ripcord[/MENTION], and a bunch of others. It was a crazy weekend with A LOT of driving but it was totally worth it. I left Bozeman around 2 PM Friday after my last class and drove through the night getting into Moab around 1 AM. Along the way, I met up with my friend Adam in Salt Lake who followed me down to Moab. We were up till almost 4 am talking around the fire with everyone and that meant the next day would be a late start.
We decided to run gold bar rim and part of golden spike on Saturday with our sights set on the golden crack. Since we didn't hit the trail until almost noon we knew it was going to be a long day, the group had also split up and the first group of 4 trucks that I was with made good time through the first few optional obstacles.
The first major obstacle is the waterfall. It is basically an 8-foot tall slickrock face that drops you straight down at a super steep angle. It continues to get more and more dugout and to me, this is essentially the Moab version of backdoor. I had run this trail in March on my little 265s and had no problem with this obstacle but when I walked up to it became abundantly clear that it had gotten way more dug out over the last few months. There used to be a super easy line on the north side of the wall which made getting up super easy but it had all but disappeared. After taking a quick look I decided to take the same line I had previously and lined up on what I thought was the same line. The problem with this obstacle is its so steep that you reach a point where you have no control and just slide down the rest of the way. That's where things went sideways, I didn't line up perfectly square and when I started sliding my wheels were forced to turn driver and then I ended up off my line with my driver tire wedged against a rock, I tried to correct it but with all the weight on the front end I couldn't turn and as I moved forward I could see the wheel being forced past the steering stop and getting into a really nasty bind.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/150883598@N08/44588269245/in/dateposted/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1960/44588269245_8021ffaa3f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We hooked up a winch to pull some weight off the front and after doing that I was able to right my line and drive out of the obstacle. Once I was down I noticed my truck was dripping what looked like transmission fluid... great... after a closer look the transmission had started leaking out of the top of the case through the breather due to the steep angle. We brought Adam down next and he ended up in the same exact situation but due to the smaller tie rods on the 5th gens he ended up stretching is drivers inner tie rod throwing his alignment way off.
After we had Adam down the rest of the group showed up and they were able to make quick work of the wall.
Max for some reason took basically the worst line down. But being in the big 80 on 40s he just kinda forced his way through it and it was pretty entertaining
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/140899154@N02/43689068320/in/dateposted/" title="FLEM9054"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/43689068320_63d264a39d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="FLEM9054"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We continued on towards the crack but it was already 3 in the afternoon.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45457456272/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0380"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1919/45457456272_5edd7c522f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0380"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
IMG_0380 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45508425981/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0374"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1916/45508425981_3ece52b633_b.jpg" width="1024" height="756" alt="IMG_0374"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Around 5 we reached the golden crack and after waiting for a group of jeeps to go through it was time to have some fun. It was also here that we discovered Hayden had broken his driverside motor mount which was fixed with a rachet strap but unfortunately meant he wouldnt be taking on the crack
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43691071240/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0402"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/43691071240_1b21f4e6e6_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0402"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44594487155/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0409"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1910/44594487155_6f4e423068_b.jpg" width="1024" height="672" alt="IMG_0409"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43691141070/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0440"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1978/43691141070_97c252d896_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0440"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
I think Jim ended up with the most spectacular wheel stand
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/31635614108/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0468"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1928/31635614108_c8a0d9edc8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="735" alt="IMG_0468"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
After everyone had gone through we turned around and started to head back out the way we came in. Other than a few spots we that we had to winch the one open diff 4runner up the trip out was super smooth. We reached the waterfall around 9 and after waiting for a few jeeps and a tacoma who had broke a CV and refused to swap it winch out we got our shot. I gave the wall one shot but I lost my momentum and the front end started sliding sideways so in the interest of time I winched up. Of the 10 trucks only 3 made it up without winching.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/152917640@N05/44591068675/in/photostream/" title="_DSC1935"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1943/44591068675_99a713b9f1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="_DSC1935"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We rolled off the trail around 10pm and after grabbing dinner in town we headed back to camp and everyone was out within an hour.
We decided to run gold bar rim and part of golden spike on Saturday with our sights set on the golden crack. Since we didn't hit the trail until almost noon we knew it was going to be a long day, the group had also split up and the first group of 4 trucks that I was with made good time through the first few optional obstacles.
The first major obstacle is the waterfall. It is basically an 8-foot tall slickrock face that drops you straight down at a super steep angle. It continues to get more and more dugout and to me, this is essentially the Moab version of backdoor. I had run this trail in March on my little 265s and had no problem with this obstacle but when I walked up to it became abundantly clear that it had gotten way more dug out over the last few months. There used to be a super easy line on the north side of the wall which made getting up super easy but it had all but disappeared. After taking a quick look I decided to take the same line I had previously and lined up on what I thought was the same line. The problem with this obstacle is its so steep that you reach a point where you have no control and just slide down the rest of the way. That's where things went sideways, I didn't line up perfectly square and when I started sliding my wheels were forced to turn driver and then I ended up off my line with my driver tire wedged against a rock, I tried to correct it but with all the weight on the front end I couldn't turn and as I moved forward I could see the wheel being forced past the steering stop and getting into a really nasty bind.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/150883598@N08/44588269245/in/dateposted/" title="Untitled"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1960/44588269245_8021ffaa3f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="Untitled"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We hooked up a winch to pull some weight off the front and after doing that I was able to right my line and drive out of the obstacle. Once I was down I noticed my truck was dripping what looked like transmission fluid... great... after a closer look the transmission had started leaking out of the top of the case through the breather due to the steep angle. We brought Adam down next and he ended up in the same exact situation but due to the smaller tie rods on the 5th gens he ended up stretching is drivers inner tie rod throwing his alignment way off.
After we had Adam down the rest of the group showed up and they were able to make quick work of the wall.
Max for some reason took basically the worst line down. But being in the big 80 on 40s he just kinda forced his way through it and it was pretty entertaining
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/140899154@N02/43689068320/in/dateposted/" title="FLEM9054"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1933/43689068320_63d264a39d_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="FLEM9054"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We continued on towards the crack but it was already 3 in the afternoon.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45457456272/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0380"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1919/45457456272_5edd7c522f_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0380"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
IMG_0380 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
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Around 5 we reached the golden crack and after waiting for a group of jeeps to go through it was time to have some fun. It was also here that we discovered Hayden had broken his driverside motor mount which was fixed with a rachet strap but unfortunately meant he wouldnt be taking on the crack
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43691071240/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0402"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/43691071240_1b21f4e6e6_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0402"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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I think Jim ended up with the most spectacular wheel stand
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/31635614108/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0468"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1928/31635614108_c8a0d9edc8_b.jpg" width="1024" height="735" alt="IMG_0468"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
After everyone had gone through we turned around and started to head back out the way we came in. Other than a few spots we that we had to winch the one open diff 4runner up the trip out was super smooth. We reached the waterfall around 9 and after waiting for a few jeeps and a tacoma who had broke a CV and refused to swap it winch out we got our shot. I gave the wall one shot but I lost my momentum and the front end started sliding sideways so in the interest of time I winched up. Of the 10 trucks only 3 made it up without winching.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/152917640@N05/44591068675/in/photostream/" title="_DSC1935"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1943/44591068675_99a713b9f1_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="_DSC1935"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
We rolled off the trail around 10pm and after grabbing dinner in town we headed back to camp and everyone was out within an hour.
Black798
New member
Day two was hells revenge. This is a trail I have ran several times before and its super easy but there are enough optional obstacles to keep it fun. Since everyone was planning on heading home today we got an early start and were on the trail by 9
The main goal was hells gate since there was a handful in the group that wanted to run it, myself included
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45457663562/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0532"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1961/45457663562_60a7914cfe_b.jpg" width="1024" height="807" alt="IMG_0532"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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As luck would have it right before we reached the gate it started raining and it was clear there was a lot of moisture from earlier in the area as well. Any of you who have wheeled slick rock know it has loads of traction untill its wet, then it basically is like driving on snow, I started to have a bad feeling about the gate and decided to not run it, I had already run it before so I didnt have anything to prove and didnt want to risk potential damage. Max was up first and due to the wet conditions he couldn't hold the line and nearly rolled twice, I ended up winching him part way up but Jim and Noah walked up in the trail limo tacos. Noah did learn the hard way though that the 3rd gen tacos dont like steep inclines and will start drinking oil.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44841534924/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0553"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/44841534924_e3de398f08_b.jpg" width="683" height="1024" alt="IMG_0553"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44652448915/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0557"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1956/44652448915_3572a4b8ca_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0557"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43749000040/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0570"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1956/43749000040_ed5b122f8c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0570"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
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After everyone was clear of the gate we turned around and headed out the way we came in. The entrance to hells revenge was recently redone to allow two-way traffic in and out and it was a very strange perspective going in reverse. After everyone had aired up we all parted ways and headed home. I ended up driving through the night again but made it home in time for my calc exam in the morning. Overall even though I was only there for 36 hours it was a great trip, got to meet lots of cool people and hang out with friends new and old, cant wait to do it again! The only trail damage for this trip was a broken light mount in the bumper and some saggy rear coils. Ive been running the OME 891s for 2 years now but they just arent up to the task anymore. Once I was home I picked up some OEM land cruiser 7 wraps for 50 bucks and it looks like these will do the trick. My unloaded height is an inch taller so I sit at 4 inches which I dont really like but under load they sit right at 3 inches and I think they ride much better.
The main goal was hells gate since there was a handful in the group that wanted to run it, myself included
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/45457663562/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0532"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1961/45457663562_60a7914cfe_b.jpg" width="1024" height="807" alt="IMG_0532"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/152917640@N05/45454026992/in/dateposted/" title="_DSC1977"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1977/45454026992_cbb6c1b4a7_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="_DSC1977"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/152917640@N05/43687668410/in/dateposted/" title="_DSC2088"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1969/43687668410_c70dc94557_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="_DSC2088"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
As luck would have it right before we reached the gate it started raining and it was clear there was a lot of moisture from earlier in the area as well. Any of you who have wheeled slick rock know it has loads of traction untill its wet, then it basically is like driving on snow, I started to have a bad feeling about the gate and decided to not run it, I had already run it before so I didnt have anything to prove and didnt want to risk potential damage. Max was up first and due to the wet conditions he couldn't hold the line and nearly rolled twice, I ended up winching him part way up but Jim and Noah walked up in the trail limo tacos. Noah did learn the hard way though that the 3rd gen tacos dont like steep inclines and will start drinking oil.
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44841534924/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0553"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1905/44841534924_e3de398f08_b.jpg" width="683" height="1024" alt="IMG_0553"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/44652448915/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0557"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1956/44652448915_3572a4b8ca_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0557"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43749000040/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0570"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1956/43749000040_ed5b122f8c_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0570"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/147275993@N05/43749001210/in/album-72157696862732170/" title="IMG_0579"><img src="https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1945/43749001210_ff4e70e6e4_b.jpg" width="1024" height="683" alt="IMG_0579"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
After everyone was clear of the gate we turned around and headed out the way we came in. The entrance to hells revenge was recently redone to allow two-way traffic in and out and it was a very strange perspective going in reverse. After everyone had aired up we all parted ways and headed home. I ended up driving through the night again but made it home in time for my calc exam in the morning. Overall even though I was only there for 36 hours it was a great trip, got to meet lots of cool people and hang out with friends new and old, cant wait to do it again! The only trail damage for this trip was a broken light mount in the bumper and some saggy rear coils. Ive been running the OME 891s for 2 years now but they just arent up to the task anymore. Once I was home I picked up some OEM land cruiser 7 wraps for 50 bucks and it looks like these will do the trick. My unloaded height is an inch taller so I sit at 4 inches which I dont really like but under load they sit right at 3 inches and I think they ride much better.
Black798
New member
So last week I started having issues with my 4wd system again. It started when I was doing about 40 and pushed the 4wd button as the road had gotten pretty icy. About 5 seconds went by and the 4wd indicator still hadn't come on and then all of a sudden I was met with an awful grinding. I immediately hit the button again and the grinding stopped. Tried engaging again and got the same result. I then pulled off the road put the truck in neutral hit the button and poof 4wd was on like nothing happened.
Few days went by and then on my way to work as I was going around a slight corner the front end started clunking like it was related to a rotation in the driveline. I disengaged 4wd and re-engaged it and then it stopped.
These two events had me worried as it was eerily similar to the symptoms I had last time the front diff was blown so some investigation was needed. I started by swapping fluid in the case to check for chunks since it was the easiest to get to. No chunks, not even a sparkle, the oil looked brand new. Ok so onto the front diff, I dropped the skids last night and pulled the drain plug... and well I was met with this familiar sight and the sound of chunks hitting the drain pain.
IMAG0688 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
IMAG0690 by Phoenix Black, on Flickr
The diagnosis? chipped spider gears... again. I pulled 3 good size chunks out of the oil and thousands of little specks and shavings. I don't understand how the hell this keeps happening but needless to say I'm pissed. Especially since this diff only had 130k miles and seems to have broke while I was just daily driving the truck. At this point, the only logical solution is to install an ARB air locker in the front. This would eliminate the weak ass Toyota spider gears with forged 4340 Chromoly and also add a much stronger carrier. It seems like a waste to me to try and track down another diff since they obviously can't handle the stress. Unfortunately, I don't have the money for an ARB right now and I won't for at least a few months. So hopefully this diff will hold together until I can make the ARB happen.
The really shitty thing is that it just started snowing and this pretty much killed my whole snow wheeling season.
Few days went by and then on my way to work as I was going around a slight corner the front end started clunking like it was related to a rotation in the driveline. I disengaged 4wd and re-engaged it and then it stopped.
These two events had me worried as it was eerily similar to the symptoms I had last time the front diff was blown so some investigation was needed. I started by swapping fluid in the case to check for chunks since it was the easiest to get to. No chunks, not even a sparkle, the oil looked brand new. Ok so onto the front diff, I dropped the skids last night and pulled the drain plug... and well I was met with this familiar sight and the sound of chunks hitting the drain pain.
IMAG0688 by Phoenix Black, on FlickrIMAG0690 by Phoenix Black, on FlickrThe diagnosis? chipped spider gears... again. I pulled 3 good size chunks out of the oil and thousands of little specks and shavings. I don't understand how the hell this keeps happening but needless to say I'm pissed. Especially since this diff only had 130k miles and seems to have broke while I was just daily driving the truck. At this point, the only logical solution is to install an ARB air locker in the front. This would eliminate the weak ass Toyota spider gears with forged 4340 Chromoly and also add a much stronger carrier. It seems like a waste to me to try and track down another diff since they obviously can't handle the stress. Unfortunately, I don't have the money for an ARB right now and I won't for at least a few months. So hopefully this diff will hold together until I can make the ARB happen.
The really shitty thing is that it just started snowing and this pretty much killed my whole snow wheeling season.
TCMach
New member
Thats a real bummer, I count myself lucky I haven't had diff issues (even with a really ghetto install of my rear Yukon). Wrong gear ratio but there is a guy on TW selling an RD-90 with 4.56 gears and bearings.
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/arb-rd90-locker.576555/
