Blackstone oil report
- Thread starter vicpick58
- Start date
Well, this is all nice and good, but the real question on this thread, only because I stuck my neck out, is regarding syn oil vs. dino, does "time" vs. Mileage (usage) more important? WE are all waiting for the all omnipotent one to give his learned opinion......be safe bud. (Meaning, do not go down the Moutain on your bike with wet brakes....).
Antman
Elite Member
Gees- no offense, but how long has it been since you've ridden a bike?
Even my '95 Stumpy with "V-Brakes" would flip you off the bike if you hit them too hard- even in the rain. Modern disks are even better!
Back on topic- sorry.
vicpick58
New member
I also have a 1998 Dodge 4x4 pick-up that I seldom use anymore, I only change the oil on it every other year or so. The mileage between those oil changes is only a few hundred to maybe 1200. I use Mobil one synthetic oil and it comes out nearly as clean as it goes in.
Do you think that the oil goes bad just sitting in the crankcase inside my garage? When I do drive the truck, I always make sure it is far enough to get it completely warmed up. I used to change it every May, but with only 4 to 5 hundred miles on the oil I figured why not go another year and get a few more miles on it.
This was the year that I changed the oil since my smog check comes up this year, but I did not think to send a sample in to Blackstone. I will do it next time and see what they say about the duration of time between changes.
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Gees- no offense, but how long has it been since you've ridden a bike?
Even my '95 Stumpy with "V-Brakes" would flip you off the bike if you hit them too hard- even in the rain. Modern disks are even better!
Back on topic- sorry.
Obviously, too long. But not long enough not to forget/remember the pain of a forward flip without a soft landing pad! The good thing I was young enough to "bounce" vs. "break"....yea, there was pain, but it went away rather quickly. I think 1engineer had some lingering pain, for about a year or so as I remember......be safe.
No, I do not think the syn oil goes bad just by sitting there. Quite the opposite. With SYN oil, I am thinking with little use, it can last for a LONG, LONG, time. But, that is just my opinion. That is why I am encouraging the opinions and reasoning from the collective here. Be Safe.
vicpick58
New member
Good to know, thanks.
vicpick58
New member
Yeah, that is what I think too.
Any reason you are running regular oil instead of synthetic in your 5th gen? The reason I ask is that I'm not aware of a non-synthetic 0W-20. I'd highly recommend running the ligher, synthetic oil that the vehicle was designed for. Oil does a lot in these engines with regard to the variable valve timing. I don't think different oil weights will make a huge difference*, but is it worth the risk of your engine going kapoot and the dealer saying you used the wrong oil?
*We used 5W-30 oil on the 2GR-FE at SOP and went to 0W-20 with the RX350 redesign without a change to the VVT cam gears, oil control valves, etc, but that doesn't mean that the ECU isn't different for how it instructs the OCV.
jspagna1
New member
I use 5W-30 in my newer autos. My 11 T4R and even my wife 12 Maxima. I also use
20W-50 in my Mustang with a Ford Racing GT40 Motor and I change the oil in the Mustang once a year. My cousin is also my mechanic and has been one for over 30 years so I trust him. The bottom line is that you regularly change your oil. If the car is leased than that's a different story. Here are some interesting facts I found in an article that I read.
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Here are the technical facts behind 5W-20 and 0W-20 oil specs:
Question: My owners manual specifies 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil. Do I really need to use 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil and why did my 2000 model year vehicle require a 5W-30 oil, while the exact same engine in my 2001, 2002 and newer engines "requires" a 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil?
Answer: NO! You do not need to use a 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil. Do not let your dealer scare you by telling you that you have to use 5W-20 oil for your warranty. That is a tactic that some dealerships use to scare customers. Once you know the facts and the Federal Magnusson Moss Act law, you will be much better informed to protect your rights and use the type of fluids you want to use.
The main reason 5W-20 or 0W-20 oil was specified for your engine is to increase the CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) reported to the Federal Government. CAFE is the combined average fuel economy of all of a vehicle manufacturers product line. Minimum CAFE levels are specified by the Federal Government. In order for a vehicle manufacturer to continue selling profitable large trucks and SUV's, which typically have poor fuel mileage ratings, as compared to smaller cars, and still meet mandated CAFE requirements, they must also sell enough of the smaller cars which have much better fuel economy ratings to offset the poor fuel economy ratings of the larger vehicles. For model year 2001, the change to a 5W-20 oil will allow Honda and Ford's overall CAFE to increase by a very small amount, typically in the tenths of a mile per gallon range. 5W-20 oil is a lighter viscosity than a 5W-30 oil and therefore has less internal engine frictional losses, or less drag on the crankshaft, pistons and valvetrain, which in turn promotes increased fuel economy. This increased fuel economy is virtually undetectable to the average motorist without the use of specialized engine monitoring and testing equipment under strictly controlled test track driving when compared to a 5W-30, 10W-30 or a 0W-30 viscosity motor oil.
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Question: Could using a 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-30 or even a 10W-40 or 20W-50, oil in my vehicle which specifies a 5W-20 oil void my new car warranty?
Answer: Absolutely not. Vehicle manufacturers only recommend using motor oils meeting certain viscosity grades and American Petroleum Institute service requirements. Whether a motor oil is a 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30, 0W-30, 10W-40 or 20W-50 (for racing and high performance applications in, for example, a Cobra R Mustang) or even a synthetic vs. a petroleum based oil will not affect warranty coverage. The manufacturer is required by Federal Law to cover all equipment failures it would normally cover as long as the oil meets API service requirements and specifications and was not the cause of failure. In addition, the Federally mandated Magnuson - Moss Act states that a manufacturer may not require a specific brand or type of aftermarket product unless it is provided free of charge. If your dealership continues to tell you that you must use 5W-20 motor oil and or/ a specific brand of 5W-20 motor oil, then ask them to put it in writing. Their position is inaccurate, and, in fact violates existing law.*
Additionally, if there is ever a question of whether or not a particular motor oil was the cause of an engine failure make sure to get a sample of the used oil in a clean bottle, typically 6 oz. minimum. The oil can then be sent to two independent testing labs for analysis. This is standard procedure for most commercial vehicles, trucking, construction/excavation and fleet companies and there are numerous certified test labs all over the country. Remember, a knowledgeable and informed consumer is your best defense against being taken advantage of by a car dealership service center
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harper7
Senior Member
What engines are they talking about?
I wonder if those engines timing is aided by oil pressures like this one is ? Higher viscosity oil will change the oil pressure.
Oil passages for the camshaft timing oil control valve (exhaust) and the VVT-i controller (exhaust) have
been added with the use of the VVT-i system on the exhaust side.
With the use of the hydraulic lash adjuster and the roller rocker arm, oil passages have been added and
an oil delivery pipe is used.
Who knows unless they try it I guess?It's your truck.
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mpaquette
New member
I did a Blackstone UOA at 20k after a 10k OCI and my copper was 16 ppm. My TBN was 1.8 so the oil was done. I was planning to test again at 30k but forgot to pull a sample. Hopefully I remember at 40k. I plan on following Toyota's 10k OCI interval and I've only used 0W-20 oil.
Ahh, I forgot about the HLAs. I know for a fact that no good leakdown rate on the HLA can cause misfire codes in these engines. I've spent more time than I'd like at the Delphi facility that builds the HLAs for north american built "R" generation engines. (GR, ZR, UR) I've been out of quality engineering too long. I'm forgetting all the neat little tidbits from the 'good ol' days'. (Hint: production engineering = way more hours)
jspagna1 - Toyota isn't saying that you have to use a certain brand... they are just saying you have to use a certain weight and you can use a similar weight in a pinch... but the service manual recommends only 5k miles on the 5W-20. The keypoint is right in your post: "and was not the cause of failure." If Toyota says that the wrong oil weight/type caused the failure, they can decline the warranty repair.
1engineer
Moderator
Heat and contamination are the reasons you change oil in vehicles. Your vehicle is not a hard application. With that said milage is most important in today's vehicles. Back in the day with regular oil the additives would settle out if left too long and separate from the base stock. Now the blending process is much better. Oil will last a LONG time just sitting there doing nothing.
Yes after breaking several ribs and a shoulder I did have a few lingering effects lol. I am fine now getting ready to drop and climb 2000 ft after lunch today.
See above answer.
You are right vicpick58.
Harper is right Jspagna. While the article you quoted has some truth there is a bunch of technical stuff he left out. Sure, CAFE standards are one reason but let me give you a for instance:
Let's say you have a rotating gear in a container, and the container is pressurized. In the top you have oil being pumped in to fill the container to lubricate the rotating gear and in the bottom you have a fixed orifice (a small hole that does not change size) the oil runs out and back to a tank. Let's say you have a thin oil you are using. It will do it's job and run out the bottom at a fixed rate and pressure over time. Now, let's say you change to a thicker oil. It will also do it's job of lubrication but because it's thicker it will take longer to run out the bottom. What happens? The pressure goes up in the container because the oil is not runninng out fast enough. Imagine everything was computer controlled with the original thin oil parameters. Your thicker oil would change everything and eventually could damage the oil pump and other things. This is basically what your engine does just a lot more complicated.
Can I guarantee this will happen and damage will be caused? No not at all but I can guarantee that if you use the proper viscosity it WILL NOT happen. Hope this helps everyone.
Great thread. Good quote.
Just my observation but....the whole warranty OCI requirement for 6 months seems like a dark gray area. The argument is: oil will collect moisture/cause corrosion even when sitting in a container on the shelf. If true...how old (or when was) that oil put in the container before arriving on the shelf at the store?
philsey
New member
I have a somewhat simplistic view, and believe what 1-E often states, which is something like "Toyota engineers know more about this engine that I do" ..... (or any other 'oil experts' do, for that matter).
Ergo, I play it safe - the dealer changes my oil, at the recommended interval, with the recommended products. No (potential) issues, finger-pointing, nor drama. Even if they f*** it up, they are responsible, not me. I place a high value on Toyota's reliability, and warranty - why screw with it?
I mean, what's the big deal? You HAVE to put some oil in it - might just as well use what Toyota recommends - it's not like it's some big cost difference.
Ergo, I play it safe - the dealer changes my oil, at the recommended interval, with the recommended products. No (potential) issues, finger-pointing, nor drama. Even if they f*** it up, they are responsible, not me. I place a high value on Toyota's reliability, and warranty - why screw with it?
I mean, what's the big deal? You HAVE to put some oil in it - might just as well use what Toyota recommends - it's not like it's some big cost difference.
