Antman
Elite Member
Wrong. Over time it will fail.
Botched Speaker Install: how would you proceed?
- Thread starter JSparky
- Start date
Wrong. Over time it will fail.
reidbailey
New member
JSparky
New member
Thanks again for the opinions, helps a lot. I feel the liquid tape and electrical tape is a temporary solution. When the owner gets back to the shop I'm going to show him what his installer(s) did and see if he'll take out a claim for a new wiring harness. In talking with some automotive friends, their opinion mirrors some of your's, being that splicing in new wire, soldering, and heat shrinking is acceptable but still may be prone to failure down the road.
As far as the wires damaged, from what I can tell tentatively the rear defroster and fuel pump wires have been compromised. If anyone has a source for wire color-codes for the loom under the driver-side door I'd really like to see it. If not I may subscribe to one of the downloadable sources (recommendations?). If something as major as the fuel pump has been compromised then I'm really apt to push for a new harness. Hopefully it won't get ugly!
As far as the wires damaged, from what I can tell tentatively the rear defroster and fuel pump wires have been compromised. If anyone has a source for wire color-codes for the loom under the driver-side door I'd really like to see it. If not I may subscribe to one of the downloadable sources (recommendations?). If something as major as the fuel pump has been compromised then I'm really apt to push for a new harness. Hopefully it won't get ugly!
JSparky
New member
My brother has my shop vac!
Thanks for clarifying that you were wrong, I appreciate that -- you said first time it gets really hot, not overtime. It's okay to admit that you're wrong and agree that it was an overstatement. The tape all around that wire loom hasn't unraveled. Of course it will get hotter on the wires but it's electrical tape for crying out loud, that's what it's for.
OP - you'd be better served seeing if the shop will give you some comps or something. It makes no economic sense for them to change the entire harness and they can't agree to do that. They wouldn't have done it even if they had admitted it at the time (not two years later). Of course, you could see if they'd make a claim on their garage policy, but the claim would likely be denied because the policy doesn't pay for (excludes) the shop's crappy work. All that said, I am pulling for you to get a new harness.
manofsteele2003
New member
Man that sucks, hope it all works out in your favor but as them paying for a new harness to be installed I wouldn't get my hopes up on that one. A new harness is probably around $800 plus a ton of hours to install it. But if you manage to get them to agree to that take it to the dealer to have it done.
Antman
Elite Member
Look, I don't know what your problem with me is nor do a really care but I am not wrong. I guess I should clarify things if it bothers you that much, eh?
Standard electrical tape sucks and will eventually unravel from the heat in the vehicle. Tape that bonds to itself and is not "sticky"will not. I have plenty of experience to support this fact but I'm sure you still know better so have a blast.
Monkeymenno
New member
I have to agree with the Antman, electrical tape of any kind in this application will have some issues. I am a Powerline Technician by trade, and have installed countless hand taped splices and terminations on high voltage cable. E-tape will unravel unless treated in a very specific way, which is almost impossible in an application with such small conductors. If sealing out water is the primary objective, e-tape is not the right answer on it's own. Wrapping each wire with self-amalgamating(mastic) tape, then applying 2 half lapped layers of 33 around the whole bundle around the mastic, then heating gently with a heat gun for 3 or 4 minutes will make it impermeable. It will also be impossible to ever get it apart. And that's waaaaay overkill, but if it's worth doing, it's worth over doing.
wfo9
New member
People really over analyze things here so much...
A simple elec tape fix will work for the lifetime of the vehicle in this case. It has to be done correctly (thin strips of quality tape wrapped and overlapped....).
It won't be perfect (and it is a PITA on small wires), but it will get the job done. Overlapped heat shrink may also work. Or just some gasket maker/liquid tape... Remember, this is inside the vehicle.
All you need to do is stop the exposed copper from touching ground or an exposed part of another wire. That is why there have been no problems so far.
A new harness would potentially cause more harm than good. You have a working tested system in place...
A simple elec tape fix will work for the lifetime of the vehicle in this case. It has to be done correctly (thin strips of quality tape wrapped and overlapped....).
It won't be perfect (and it is a PITA on small wires), but it will get the job done. Overlapped heat shrink may also work. Or just some gasket maker/liquid tape... Remember, this is inside the vehicle.
All you need to do is stop the exposed copper from touching ground or an exposed part of another wire. That is why there have been no problems so far.
A new harness would potentially cause more harm than good. You have a working tested system in place...
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New wiring loom? So they can tear up 100 other things while they replace that?
Cut your losses-- no pun intended.
It looks like they cut those coatings intentionally but it sure is overkill if they are just using a voltage tester to determine if they have the wire they want. You can just shove the sharp point through to the wire and cut nothing... kind of the point of the super sharp point on the tester.
Tape it up and learn from the mistake.
God knows that I do everything at least twice and stereo installers are notoriously DUMB.
We should make a list of good ones and where they can be found-- the kind of guys who solder and heat shrink all connections-- and don't trash the interior plastic while they are at it.
Cut your losses-- no pun intended.
It looks like they cut those coatings intentionally but it sure is overkill if they are just using a voltage tester to determine if they have the wire they want. You can just shove the sharp point through to the wire and cut nothing... kind of the point of the super sharp point on the tester.
Tape it up and learn from the mistake.
God knows that I do everything at least twice and stereo installers are notoriously DUMB.
We should make a list of good ones and where they can be found-- the kind of guys who solder and heat shrink all connections-- and don't trash the interior plastic while they are at it.
No problem with you, indeed it was not personal at all and I'm very sorry if I came off that way, I was just pointing out that your statement wasn't very accurate.
JSparky
New member
Thought I'd post an update here. After taking everyone's comments into consideration, as well as some research of my own, I decided to go ahead and make some more permanent repairs myself. I decided against having the harness replaced as I think these repairs should prevent any problems for the foreseeable future. I also don't see pursuing action against the audio shop that caused the damage is going to result in anything without considerable effort on my part. Like I stated before, I haven't had any known problems occur so I consider this due diligence in preventing problems from arising in the future.
As far as repairs, I opted to remove and splice in high quality marine wire for the badly damaged sections. These connections were soldered and insulated using Anchor brand heat shrink which is lined with an adhesive to aid watertightness. For the wires that were nicked, I decided to coat in liquid electrical tape and then top-off with a wrap in regular electrical tape.
Lastly, I had another well-respected audio shop inspect the previous install to ensure nothing else was out of the ordinary. Due to the considerable number of wires in the loom it was unrealistic to try and determine specifically which wires were damaged. Again, the thought here is that these repairs will sufficiently mend any hazards.
Here are some pics from the repair process. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to comment, each comment was helpful in guiding these repairs. If anyone has any concerns with the steps I've taken please don't hesitate to raise a flag.
As a note, I had to learn how to solder (hah!). After reviewing some tutorials along with the obligatory youtube videos, I spent some time in the garage until I felt confident in my skills. I had some problems initially with overheating the wire, resulting in insulation damage. With the right soldering iron tip and proper heat I was able to minimize this. I've got a year of college physics under my belt so I've got a grasp on the concepts, I just needed some work at the execution.
As far as repairs, I opted to remove and splice in high quality marine wire for the badly damaged sections. These connections were soldered and insulated using Anchor brand heat shrink which is lined with an adhesive to aid watertightness. For the wires that were nicked, I decided to coat in liquid electrical tape and then top-off with a wrap in regular electrical tape.
Lastly, I had another well-respected audio shop inspect the previous install to ensure nothing else was out of the ordinary. Due to the considerable number of wires in the loom it was unrealistic to try and determine specifically which wires were damaged. Again, the thought here is that these repairs will sufficiently mend any hazards.
Here are some pics from the repair process. I want to thank everyone for taking the time to comment, each comment was helpful in guiding these repairs. If anyone has any concerns with the steps I've taken please don't hesitate to raise a flag.
As a note, I had to learn how to solder (hah!). After reviewing some tutorials along with the obligatory youtube videos, I spent some time in the garage until I felt confident in my skills. I had some problems initially with overheating the wire, resulting in insulation damage. With the right soldering iron tip and proper heat I was able to minimize this. I've got a year of college physics under my belt so I've got a grasp on the concepts, I just needed some work at the execution.
Attachments
JSparky
New member
Thanks again rigtec for the help, I appreciate the PM's!
philsey
New member
[MENTION=96425]JSparky[/MENTION]
VERY nice soldering work! I've been doing electrical/electronic soldering for, well, a very long time, and that's as good as it gets. I hope you bought enough solder.
I wholeheartedly agree with your choice for a fix. There is noone, nowhere, I'd trust to replace that loom.
You still need to get that carpet vac'd.
And yes, electrical tape will unravel in time.
VERY nice soldering work! I've been doing electrical/electronic soldering for, well, a very long time, and that's as good as it gets. I hope you bought enough solder.
I wholeheartedly agree with your choice for a fix. There is noone, nowhere, I'd trust to replace that loom.
You still need to get that carpet vac'd.
And yes, electrical tape will unravel in time.
JSparky
New member
ok ok.. I'll find the vac haha.
Miguelon
New member
I agree..do not use electrical tape or that shop!
