Brake bleeding question

R

rutledj

New member
I'm afraid I still have a problem with my 2002 4R brakes. They feel soft. The pedal travels probably half-way down before you feel any affect. I've tried following the bleeding guide posted elsewhere here but I'm wondering if I'm doing it wrong.

With the engine off and someone pressing the brake pedal, I get very little fluid out of the bleeder valves (actually none from the rears). If I try it cranked I get tons of fluid.

The Haynes manual doesn't mention cranking the car. Should I be bleeding them with the engine running? If not, then why can't I get fluid out with the engine off?

Also, the Haynes manual says there might be a load balancer (?) for the brake system somewhere under the car. Do these 4runners have one? I haven't been able to locate it.

Lastly, would it be worth the investment to buy one of the hand pump tools to create a vacuum to bleed the brakes? I'm talking one of the $50 models, not the $200 models.

Thanks,
Rut
 
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replace the bleeder valves to start with. the fluid should not need the engine to help bleed the brakes. that said, it takes a good strong leg to pump the pedal. try not to go down more than half way when you pump them.

two thngs come to mind: either your helper is lifting his foot before you close the valve each time you release fluid and air is getting back in or the rear brake shoes are not adjusted correctly and the shoes have to travel too far before touching the drums.

brake bleeding 101
 
In a 2001-2002 to bleed the brakes start with the rear passenger side with the key on but car not started have someone step on the brake (do not pump). Open the bleeder valve and fluid will be pumped out. When you see no air close the valve. Do the same for the drive side.

On the front the key does not have to be on. Bleed it like you would any other car starting on the passenger side and working to the driver side.

Keep an eye on the fluid and never let it go dry or you start all over.

Hope that makes sense

Ben
 
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Drcoffee said:
replace the bleeder valves to start with. the fluid should not need the engine to help bleed the brakes. that said, it takes a good strong leg to pump the pedal. try not to go down more than half way when you pump them.

two thngs come to mind: either your helper is lifting his foot before you close the valve each time you release fluid and air is getting back in or the rear brake shoes are not adjusted correctly and the shoes have to travel too far before touching the drums.

brake bleeding 101
Click to expand...

Agreed. If you replace the bleeder valves, I highly suggest using speed bleeders instead of regular bleeders.

I have used both the vacuum bleeders and speed bleeders, and I personally prefer the speed bleeders. The speed bleeders allow you to bleed the brakes by yourself very easily, and you can just slam the pedal a bunch of times in a row, which seems to work better for me to get all the bubbles out. I think if you take too long between pumps, then the air bubbles can flow back up the hose instead of getting forced out the bleeder.

Just be sure you don't run the reservoir dry like gs300tt said or you have undone everything you just did.

The only time the vacuum bleeder is needed is when you have air in the MC, pumping doesn't always draw fluid into the MC, so having the vacuum pressure can help draw it in and get the pump action working. I just went through that on my motorcycle, and my vacuum gun broke, so I just cut a fresh piece of vinyl tubing and sucked on it to create the vacuum, then spit it out as soon as fluid started coming out of the caliper. It worked fine, and I didn't come close to eating any fluid.
 
I have a 1997, but the same tthing is happening when I try it. On each of the four bleeders i got an initial surge of fluid but thats about it. I already bought speedbleeders and really dont want to buy a 50-some-dollar vacuum pump. Post back if you figure it ou OP.
 
When I did my rear axle seals, I just let them gravity bleed for 20 minutes while I did the brakes. No issues. I also made a low pressure air hose connectable adapter for the master cylinder, I can push and entire master cylinder of new fluid through all the brakes in about 20-30 minutes
 
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Here's a video [MENTION=102606]infamousRNR[/MENTION] and I made of bleeding the brakes on this 2002.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rnyK3V-OGn4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
I saw a few bad reviews on amazon of speed bleeders. Any bad cases of them not actually sealing?

edit [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] beat me to linking his own video.
 
shahsmerdis said:
I saw a few bad reviews on amazon of speed bleeders. Any bad cases of them not actually sealing?

edit [MENTION=120071]mtbtim[/MENTION] beat me to linking his own video.
Click to expand...

I wonder if the ones available at http://speedbleeder.com/ are of better quality than the ones available on Amazon. I would fit in the category of probably annual brake fluid changes but I would hate to not be able to use the OEM ones again.
 
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ZionXIX said:
I wonder if the ones available at Speed Bleeder Bleeding Brakes Bleeding Motorcycle Brakes Automotive Bleeder Screw Brake Bleeder are of better quality than the ones available on Amazon. I would fit in the category of probably annual brake fluid changes but I would hate to not be able to use the OEM ones again.
Click to expand...

I've heard the speed bleeders can work really well, but then again, people have had problems with them. I would think anybody, even people that are really annoying to be around, can find someone to help them by doing the brake pedal pumping and holding for a short time. If you have all the tools set-up and ready to go, you're not talking a whole bunch of time to do this. Maybe 15 minutes tops.

Or, you could go the Motive Pressure Bleeder route, but that's more money. Find a willing helper, give them good instructions on what you want them to do and you'll be all good. No need for fancy speed bleeders or pressure bleeders.
 
ZionXIX said:
I wonder if the ones available at Speed Bleeder Bleeding Brakes Bleeding Motorcycle Brakes Automotive Bleeder Screw Brake Bleeder are of better quality than the ones available on Amazon. I would fit in the category of probably annual brake fluid changes but I would hate to not be able to use the OEM ones again.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the russell ones seem to be not usa made?

I Wonder. The bleeders on my 3rd gen look rusted up anyway. its due for a replacement, but by the time you clean the rust change the brake hardware, it might just be easier to put a reman caliper.

getting back to OP's post, I know key on engine off, but do you pump or just push it down to get the rear fluid out?
 
Posting in the appropriate thread instead of making a new one.....

Decided to bleed my front brakes today using a power bleeder. 2nd time using it and I have noticed some problems. I get 5 bajillion tiny bubbles when bleeding. I figured the tube was letting air in from the edges. I finally gave up after a half liter of fluid per side. I bleed the passenger first, valve was rounded off so I cursed for a while and was able to remove it and replace with a new valve. The drive side was such a pain to break loose that I had to hammer a 9mm box wrench onto it and use a another wrench for leverage. The 9mm is now a permanent part of bleeder valve. I have nothing to cut the wrench with so for now I gonna have to leave it attached. Driver also produced billions of bubbles. Brakes have no difference, still spongy as hell.

New things I noticed, there is now a pnuematic sound "pssh" every time I apply the brakes, I even hear is when holding the brake down and changing gears. Quite strange in my opinion.

ABS does not work due to broken sensor wire on passenger front. Rear brakes have no fluid feeding them, PO may have deleted them, not sure.

So what am I hearing? air escaping? air moving? haven't noticed any leaks so far. Just a little puzzled.

https://youtu.be/Hv8xle7pG7s
 
ZionXIX said:
Posting in the appropriate thread instead of making a new one.....

Decided to bleed my front brakes today using a power bleeder. 2nd time using it and I have noticed some problems. I get 5 bajillion tiny bubbles when bleeding. I figured the tube was letting air in from the edges. I finally gave up after a half liter of fluid per side. I bleed the passenger first, valve was rounded off so I cursed for a while and was able to remove it and replace with a new valve. The drive side was such a pain to break loose that I had to hammer a 9mm box wrench onto it and use a another wrench for leverage. The 9mm is now a permanent part of bleeder valve. I have nothing to cut the wrench with so for now I gonna have to leave it attached. Driver also produced billions of bubbles. Brakes have no difference, still spongy as hell.

New things I noticed, there is now a pnuematic sound "pssh" every time I apply the brakes, I even hear is when holding the brake down and changing gears. Quite strange in my opinion.

ABS does not work due to broken sensor wire on passenger front. Rear brakes have no fluid feeding them, PO may have deleted them, not sure.

So what am I hearing? air escaping? air moving? haven't noticed any leaks so far. Just a little puzzled.

https://youtu.be/Hv8xle7pG7s
Click to expand...

Are you still driving this rig? If so, kind of scary. How do you know there's no brake fluid going to the rear brakes? Did you try to bleed them and no brake fluid came out?

When bleeding the brakes on our rigs, you need to start with the wheel furthest away from the master cylinder and work your way back. So, the order is:
1) Rear Passenger Side Wheel
2) Rear Driver Side Wheel
3) Front Passenger Side Wheel
4) Front Driver Side Wheel
5) If you have a Load Sensing Proportioning Valve, you do this one last.

If you indeed have no fluid going to your rear brakes, you shouldn't be driving it and maybe seek out some help on the island to troubleshoot what's going on.

You'll need to get that wrench off the front driver side bleeder and replace it.

That sound you're hearing is probably tons of air in the lines. That's why your pedal feels so squishy.

If you have a 2001 or 2002, you have to have the ignition in the "On" position to power up the brake booster to properly bleed the brakes. Watch the video I supplied a link to in this thread to review the process of properly bleeding the brakes.
 

Its a 1996 model. No proportioning valve that i know of. When i replaced the axel seals, I disconnected both rear brake line, bone dry. Nothing I do seems to get fluid to those lines. The sound is new. I knew about air in the lines which is why i was bleeding them today. I had the power bleeder going the whole time on each side that I bleed. How is air getting into the system? I would have had more time to mess with it if the previous person hadnt rounded off the bleeder valves. Remember, the speed limit is 20 in the places I drive.
 
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