Building rear control arms. Thoughts and opinions

[Taylor20]

Getting ready to build adjustable upper and lower rear control arms. Looked at Rip's build and decided to go for it. Torn between different setups

Setup 1:
2" Johnny Joints threaded stud on frame end and 2" Johnny Joint 30degree rod end on the axle end of 1.25" .125wall DOM tubing for the uppers and using the stock lowers for now. This is mainly for getting the pinion angle better after lift.

Setup 2:
Same above except using said joints on upper and lower arms. This will allow change of pinion angle and axle location front to rear.

Setup 3:
2" Johnny Joints threaded studs on both ends of 1.25" .125wall DOM tubing on upper and lower arms for full adjustability on vehicle.

My one concern...This will be a daily driver and occasional offroad use. How often would the Johnny Joints need to be rebuilt due to wear?
It might seem crazy to spend this much on a daily, but I refuse to halfway do something that will lead to future problems.
Fully adjustable panhard bar with hiem joints will also be made and installed. Rear alignment and pinion angle will be almost perfect!

Would love some feedback, thanks!

 

[PATCO]

I prefer to use an oem bushing on one end. They are pretty flexible and keep everything quiet. You really only need the uppers to be adjustable if you want to change the pinion angle. 1.25"x.120" DOM is fine for the uppers, but pretty light for the lowers. I would go at least 1.5"x.188" DOM . If that is not readily available you can over-sleeve 1.25"x.120" with 1.5"x.120" DOM. The factory lowers are about 1.125" x .120". Here is a pic of a set I built for prospectator. They are 1.5"x.120" over-sleeved with 1.75"x.120" DOM.

 

[MojaveMadMan]

I prefer to use an oem bushing on one end. They are pretty flexible and keep everything quiet. You really only need the uppers to be adjustable if you want to change the pinion angle. 1.25"x.120" DOM is fine for the uppers, but pretty light for the lowers. I would go at least 1.5"x.188" DOM . If that is not readily available you can over-sleeve 1.25"x.120" with 1.5"x.120" DOM. The factory lowers are about 1.125" x .120". Here is a pic of a set I built for prospectator. They are 1.5"x.120" over-sleeved with 1.75"x.120" DOM.

X2 on this! Use OEM or even and after market rubber bushing on one side. I would put the rubber on the frame mounts, and the joint at the axel. Don't use a hard plastic like delrin either for the bushing. The metal joints, whether hiems or johnny joints, will take all the vibes of the road and deliver them to your cab. Having a rubber joint will help eliminate that as much as possible. For a daily driver, rubber on one side is ideal.

Plus be aware that any metal joint or hard plastic bushing like delrin will squeak after some time!!! Just the nature of the joint, doesn't mean it's bad. so having 4 bushings instead of metal joints will cut down on the noise. Also just a tip, a good way to help prevent or eliminate that as much as possible is to clean with WD40 and then use a white teflon spray, or a motorcycle chain lube with teflon to keep the joints from squeaking...

I am with you on doing the job right though. Will be easy to make, and will make for a real clean setup! Post pictures of your work!!!

 

[NateMob]

[MENTION=58958]PATCO[/MENTION] do you have the part #s for the joints and bushings that you used? Those turned out awesome looking, have you made several sets of them? Thanks in advance.

 

[PATCO]

[MENTION=58958]PATCO[/MENTION] do you have the part #s for the joints and bushings that you used? Those turned out awesome looking, have you made several sets of them? Thanks in advance.

Here is a link to their website: Summit Machine - Products and Custom Parts. The part # I used is SM-FJM. If you wanted to make them adjustable I would use SM-FJM (3/4-16) with shank. Those are the only 3rd gen set I have built. http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/103909-custom-lower-links.html Thanks for the compliment!

 

[cdrewferd]

Have a look at these joints: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/141864-duroflex-joints.html. They might be a good option.

 

[PATCO]

Have a look at these joints: http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/141864-duroflex-joints.html. They might be a good option.

I've seen those. They look like they have potential. Haven't heard of anyone running them for any length of time. Prospectator has been running the SM Flex joints for about 18 months and other than a few pumps with the grease gun they are in perfect shape. They are also the correct mounting width and bolt diameter. I also like that the bushing preload can be adjusted as they wear.

 

[Taylor20]

No Delrin will be used. I only use that stuff at work on the Porsche race cars I build.

Pinion angle adjustment is the main reason I want to build uppers. I would like the lowers to be adjustable to dial in alignment for daily driving.

Those flex joints are similar to some Johnny Joints I am thinking about running. Now I am leaning towards building all 4 arms, one end with Johnny Joints Rod Ends, the other with Johnny Joints Flex Joints.

As for the Panhard bar, I might go with one end OE and the other adjustable with a heim joint

 

[white_n_slow]

The way I see it, you wont need the flexiblility of full heim joints on both ends, and adjustability at one end should be enough to get the wheelbase and pinion angle figured out (unless you really want to stretch the wheelbase).

 

[KidVermicious]

Those are sexy. I want to have their babies.

 

[PATCO]

Those are sexy. I want to have their babies.

I laughed out loud!!! Thanks.

 

[Taylor20]

Those are nice, for me the price is high, hence the reason why I will build my own. No disrespect.

 

[PATCO]

Those are nice, for me the price is high, hence the reason why I will build my own. No disrespect.

None taken. To build them right the material and labor add up quick. Good luck with your build. Be sure to post pics when they are finished!

 

[Taylor20]

The idea of using the OE sleeve with new bushings on one end is really got me thinking.
Now I wonder if I can use a lower OE sleeve and bushing on the upper arm for one end. By doing this I could have a replaceable upper bushing on end and an adjustable JJ on the other.

New setup thought:
Upper and lower arms built with OE lower arm sleeve and bushing on one end, 2" forged JJ with 3/4" rod end on the other
Adjustablity, give during flex with OE bushing, replaceable bushing, less noise or squeak.

 

[mmml4]

Here is my version of adjustable lower links, I will be making a set for the rear soon.
I decided to put the factory bushing at the axle and the Johnny Joint at the frame to keep mud and water out. They are constructed of 2x2x1/4 square tubing. I use a 1-1/4 ladder bar adjuster for adjustment.

 

[PATCO]

The idea of using the OE sleeve with new bushings on one end is really got me thinking.
Now I wonder if I can use a lower OE sleeve and bushing on the upper arm for one end. By doing this I could have a replaceable upper bushing on end and an adjustable JJ on the other.

New setup thought:
Upper and lower arms built with OE lower arm sleeve and bushing on one end, 2" forged JJ with 3/4" rod end on the other
Adjustablity, give during flex with OE bushing, replaceable bushing, less noise or squeak.

The lowers are wider than the uppers. Just use the end loops off one upper to make the new upper set.

 

[mrtucker80]

Those are some of the cleanest i have seen, ever built any for an 80 series? If you are interested I can send you one for measurement. I am in the market since I just bent my second set. PM me if you'd be interested.

And not to stray to far from the OP, on the 80s most folks use the lowers to adjust the pinion after a lift, any reason why uppers seem to be the adjustment point for a 4Runner?

Oh and x2 on keeping an OEM joint on at least one end, helps keep vibs down.

 

[PATCO]

Those are some of the cleanest i have seen, ever built any for an 80 series? If you are interested I can send you one for measurement. I am in the market since I just bent my second set. PM me if you'd be interested.

And not to stray to far from the OP, on the 80s most folks use the lowers to adjust the pinion after a lift, any reason why uppers seem to be the adjustment point for a 4Runner?

Oh and x2 on keeping an OEM joint on at least one end, helps keep vibs down.

Sent you a PM. Thanks for the compliment! As for upper or lower link adjustment, I like to keep the threaded parts up high off the rocks and out of way from debris thrown from the front tires. Either works just a preference.

Thanks Again, Patrick

 

[MojaveMadMan]

The idea of using the OE sleeve with new bushings on one end is really got me thinking.
Now I wonder if I can use a lower OE sleeve and bushing on the upper arm for one end. By doing this I could have a replaceable upper bushing on end and an adjustable JJ on the other.

New setup thought:
Upper and lower arms built with OE lower arm sleeve and bushing on one end, 2" forged JJ with 3/4" rod end on the other
Adjustablity, give during flex with OE bushing, replaceable bushing, less noise or squeak.

X2 I like the idea of being able to walk into any auto parts store and get new bushings. Plus they are nice and quite, and low maintenance. But why use a sleeve from a stock arm? A simple measurement with some calipers and a trip to the metal suply and you can just get new sleeves for the bushings and go thicker while you are at it to really beef things up.

And shit, if I were at it building 4 links, might as well just build all five! Make them as universal as possible (same JJ) so that one spare joint will work for all five spots... makes a small footprint in the tool bag, makes things stronger, and fully adjustable!!