Butane Fuel Conversion

[drdolittlerwc]

I'm not sure this has been addressed here, I did a search and nothing came up on it.

Here in Belize, gasoline prices are outrageous ($5.60 US per gallon), while butane is approx $2.50 per gallon. Crunching numbers alone, it's purely academic! Cut your fuel bill by more than half!

Clearly, academics do not solve all problems. Hence my questions....

Has anyone ever done this to their T4R?

If so, what sort of 'issues'/concerns have you come across?

Any mileage/power differences?

Any engine issues?

I am going to meet with the mechanic, who does these sort of conversions all day long, on Tues. I've asked some of these questions already and have got some satisfying answers, but I would like to get as many opinions as possible.

I was told that both fuel systems can stay in working order and that they can be manually switched back and forth, so I could 'theoretically' continue to use gas when necessary, which (I think) help to prolong the fuel injectors, pump, etc. This, I will inquire about on Tues....

Thanks again for all your help!!

 

[Singtoe]

Are you sure they're not confusing it with propane?

Butane is a gas (not gasoline) and will not work with gasoline fuel systems.

Butane is a component of Propane.

There are propane and NG fuel injection system to retrofit to gasoline powered vehicles.

 

[98OzarksRunner]

I'd definitely find out about mileage, since butane might not contain as much thermal energy per gallon as gasoline. For example, ethanol only contains about 70% of the thermal energy (BTUs) as gasoline, which is why you typically lose 20% mileage burning E85. E85 is cheaper so it works out about the same cost per mile, but you don't save 20% (given that E85 is typically 20% cheaper than gas) - you break even.

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Are you sure they're not confusing it with propane?

Butane is a gas (not gasoline) and will not work with gasoline fuel systems.

Butane is a component of Propane.

There are propane and NG fuel injection system to retrofit to gasoline powered vehicles.

They call it Butane, I never really asked that question particularly, but I think it's a combination and probably more Butane than propane (perhaps the other way around).

They have the retrofit kits here, and do them all the time, but it's hard to get a straight answer sometimes. They know what to do, they just don't always know why it is done or why it is happening.

 

[drdolittlerwc]

I'd definitely find out about mileage, since butane might not contain as much thermal energy per gallon as gasoline. For example, ethanol only contains about 70% of the thermal energy (BTUs) as gasoline, which is why you typically lose 20% mileage burning E85. E85 is cheaper so it works out about the same cost per mile, but you don't save 20% (given that E85 is typically 20% cheaper than gas) - you break even.

Yeah, that's kinda my main concern, but everyone here seems to think there is no real change, though I cn't say that they REALLY pay attention to that, but when they see that it only costs $60-$70 to fill a tank the same amount that would've cost them $130-$150, obviously, they wouldn't really care....

So, I'm trying to get info from someone who would pay attention to those details...

Thanks!

 

[BlackCat914]

Yeah, that's kinda my main concern, but everyone here seems to think there is no real change, though I cn't say that they REALLY pay attention to that, but when they see that it only costs $60-$70 to fill a tank the same amount that would've cost them $130-$150, obviously, they wouldn't really care....

So, I'm trying to get info from someone who would pay attention to those details...

Thanks!

What's the cost of the kit installed? I'd imagine it wouldn't be cheap. How long would it take to offset the cost of the kit with what you'd see in savings from adding it? Seems like an awful long time to break even. Kind of reminds me of people saying "gas prices are outrageous! I'm going to spend $7000 on a motorcycle to get 50mpg! That'll show em!"

 

[98OzarksRunner]

According to this chart, it looks like Butane has about 18% less energy per gallon than gasoline. That might not work out to 18% less mileage, but it likely will result in some loss of mileage. But if you can buy it for half the price of gas, and it's readily available (and the conversion will pay for itself in a reasonable period of time) it sounds like a good idea.

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/wholefarm/pdf/c6-87.pdf

 

[drdolittlerwc]

What's the cost of the kit installed? I'd imagine it wouldn't be cheap. How long would it take to offset the cost of the kit with what you'd see in savings from adding it? Seems like an awful long time to break even. Kind of reminds me of people saying "gas prices are outrageous! I'm going to spend $7000 on a motorcycle to get 50mpg! That'll show em!"

What I was told is the cost (installed) is $1200 BZ which is $600 US, and the drop in monthly fuel would be a min $200. So, theoretically, the savings would be realized in about 6 months. I don't dare shake a stick at that, and it would increase my value to boot.

My biggest concern at this point is whether something like this will affect my engine negatively. A lot of people do it here, and have been running for a long time, but I'm just not sure if I'm getting the full scoop on how it affects the engine in the long term, if at all.....

 

[drdolittlerwc]

According to this chart, it looks like Butane has about 18% less energy per gallon than gasoline. That might not work out to 18% less mileage, but it likely will result in some loss of mileage. But if you can buy it for half the price of gas, and it's readily available (and the conversion will pay for itself in a reasonable period of time) it sounds like a good idea.

http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agdm/wholefarm/pdf/c6-87.pdf

Yeah, it could pay for itself in about 6 months....

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Thanks for the schedule BTW [MENTION=59733]98OzarksRunner[/MENTION]

 

[Singtoe]

Running propane or butane mix is great for the engine.

It does run hotter so colder spark plugs will need to be installed.

Propane combustion is really clean so the oil looks as clean as the day you put it in.


You math is wrong. If you are saving $200 per month, your ROI will be 3 months.

I wish we had subsidize propane or butane here in the states...

 

[Mindomission]

Running propane or butane mix is great for the engine.

It does run hotter so colder spark plugs will need to be installed.

Propane combustion is really clean so the oil looks as clean as the day you put it in.


You math is wrong. If you are saving $200 per month, your ROI will be 3 months.

I wish we had subsidize propane or butane here in the states...

Actually, it's more like 4 months if you factor in the 18% reduction of efficiency (assuming the gas mileage is reduced by 18%, and still driving the same number of miles per month as with gasoline) and the new plugs.

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Running propane or butane mix is great for the engine.

It does run hotter so colder spark plugs will need to be installed.

Propane combustion is really clean so the oil looks as clean as the day you put it in.


You math is wrong. If you are saving $200 per month, your ROI will be 3 months.

I wish we had subsidize propane or butane here in the states...

Sorry if I miss stated...

$1200BZ to install
$200BZ + savings
6 months paid off....

Thanks for the tip on the plugs...

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Actually, it's more like 4 months if you factor in the 18% reduction of efficiency (assuming the gas mileage is reduced by 18%, and still driving the same number of miles per month as with gasoline) and the new plugs.

Those who have stated the cost diff, are already driving the same and don't say anything about mileage (they don't really think about differences in that way here), they just say...'it only cost me this much to go this far', then they say that they are paying so much less for fuel, though they don't drive any different.

 

[541joseph]

Propane is somewhat common in the states there will be a noticeable power difference for sure and your mileage will decrease but probably not enough to not do it.

 

[MTD]

Propane is somewhat common in the states there will be a noticeable power difference for sure and your mileage will decrease but probably not enough to not do it.

good thing he isnt using propane then lol, he is using butane which has a much better btu/gallon ratting

 

[drdolittlerwc]

Update!

Ok, the update...

I was mistaken about the fuel, and have learned a LOT in 24 hrs...

It is actually a Propane/Butane mix they use here, and depending on who you buy from, the mixture can be drastically different. The blend I will be using is generally in the range of 50/50 to 60/40 Propane/Butane, and it is actually the less expensive product here. The more Butane you have, the more power you get. Some mixtures here are 90/10, which of course is weak and could add to problems, since Propane expands more when it warms up. :nono:

So here's the tank...

Yeah, in the cab. Not too many options here, yet. They do have tanks that will fit in your spare tire area. Then what am I going to do with the spare, I don't have a rear spare carrier and it would be a while and less cost effective for me. If it blows, well, if any fuel cell is going to blow on your car, the only difference really, is how many parts they have to pick up. Likely, they will just leave us for fertilizer. ainkiller:

Here is the switch. Mounted conveniently just below the dash, left side. The awesome thing about this system is that you can switch back to gas ON THE FLY, and if anything happens to the electrical components, it automatically switches back to gas and you roll on...

Here are the 'GUTS' of the system, the Emulator, the regulator, and if you can see a small silver thumb screw with a red mark on it (that adjusts the fuel flow, which essentially adjusts your fuel usage). One really cool thing is that you can make slight adjustments to the fuel usage to compensate for fuel mileage or power needs, that is done by the thumb screw.

A couple reasons I didn't want to do it myself, I don't really like to play with gas much (something goes wrong, and there is not much you can do about it...), the guy who installs this system, does them at least three times a week and it still takes him the better part of a day (he does get a lot of distractions from people who want his attention), I trust that. Finally, it gave us some time to do some things that are MUCH more enjoyable...

You can pay $5US to use the resort pool all day...

View from the top of the tower...

All the way up there!

Cahal Pech has a lot of passages and rooms, which make it fun to explore...

And of course, you don't get this at the shop!!

Blue Cheese Bacon Burger... Ohh Yeah.... :cheers:

And for Belize, that is a TREAT!! :madgrin:

 

[98OzarksRunner]

And you'd rather go to that resort than work on your truck? What's wrong with you?

 

[drdolittlerwc]

And you'd rather go to that resort than work on your truck? What's wrong with you?

No Comment.... :whoo:

 

[Singtoe]

I would have spent a little more and got the injection system instead of the mixer.