buy once, cry once performance upgrades

[Dezerts10]

I am currently starting to think about a few up grades I want to do to my 4runner to be a better open desert family vehicle and want to work on a little engine performance. Supercharger is out of the budget.

So the question moves to Headers, Intake, ....? Is it worth it? Everything up front sheet metal, fenders, inner fenders, core support will be removed I am thinking so installation on headers will not be terribly difficult.

Currently 206K miles, stock gearing, 275/80/17 tires.

ill be adding a bypass shock and bumps stops to complement my camburg long travel up front and will be doing a leaf spring conversion with 16" bypasses in the rear off the stock rear end for now ( may look for a seqoia rearend ) but eventual plan is to swap in a ford 9" in a year or two

thought / opinions?

thanks

 

[Renegade_Medic]

headers are still difficult because of the crossover behind the engine and offer really no performance to non-SC motors. No real performance stuff short of boost. Maybe cams, depending on budget.

 

[Dezerts10]

headers are still difficult because of the crossover behind the engine and offer really no performance to non-SC motors. No real performance stuff short of boost. Maybe cams, depending on budget.

I don’t want to do internal engine stuff, maybe when this motor lets go I’ll do something.

Maybe I should save the money from performance stuff and re gear then if there is no real gains from bolt on parts.


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[nc-grayson]

Hate to be debbie downer but based on the title of your thread the SC is exactly the buy once cry once answer youre looking for. Out of budget? Save more money.

$0.02

 

[gamefreakgc]

I am currently starting to think about a few up grades I want to do to my 4runner to be a better open desert family vehicle and want to work on a little engine performance. Supercharger is out of the budget.

So the question moves to Headers, Intake, ....? Is it worth it? Everything up front sheet metal, fenders, inner fenders, core support will be removed I am thinking so installation on headers will not be terribly difficult.

Currently 206K miles, stock gearing, 275/80/17 tires.

ill be adding a bypass shock and bumps stops to complement my camburg long travel up front and will be doing a leaf spring conversion with 16" bypasses in the rear off the stock rear end for now ( may look for a seqoia rearend ) but eventual plan is to swap in a ford 9" in a year or two

thought / opinions?

thanks

As one of the few people on here that have headers on my 4Runner, they do add performance. I compared the before and after to being similar to having A/C on or off. Not exactly a blow-your-socks-off improvement and a COMPLETE PAIN to install. Unless you intend on taking your transmission out or pulling the engine, the rest of the parts you are talking about won't make a huge different on ease of installation.

The deckplate mod, which involves removing the front of the intake will help with performance. It even helped stock engines. And, believe it or not, leaving the "ECT Power" mode on was dyno proven to gain 5 HP!

So for deckplate + ECT Power you can gain about 10 HP. That's almost as much as the headers would. Other than that... yeah that's it. As a new owner of a pair of Colt Cams, they would do diddly-squat for a stock motor. They were ground specifically for supercharged or turbocharged engines. If you cannot get a supercharger, then best not to bother.

The only things left are weight reduction (empty your junk!) and lower rotational drivetrain mass, so a lighweight crankshaft pulley from LCE or a lightweight transmission flywheel from LCE. However, if you off-road often this would make crawling more difficult due less rotational mass keeping the vehicle moving forward at low speeds.

Let me know if you have questions on any of those... I've installed almost all of them.

 

[Dezerts10]

Hate to be debbie downer but based on the title of your thread the SC is exactly the buy once cry once answer youre looking for. Out of budget? Save more money.

$0.02

Yeah, I know the supercharger is the Best Buy once cry once performance upgrade but for the price I just can do it and also just do t want to do it in a 206k mike motor.


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[BrianSD_42]

And, believe it or not, leaving the "ECT Power" mode on was dyno proven to gain 5 HP!

"Proven" (sarcasm?) Can you explain this? Because ECT mode does not in any way change the wheel HP or Torque at a given RPM and gear. All it does is change the shift points.

Op, I have headers too. I was lucky I guess because when I had to get my heads redone adding the headers was parts cost ($400) only. I also think you should consider CA smog. Whatever headers you use need to be CARB approved and you need the actual sticker to pass. Everytime I smog it they give me a harder time.

 

[phattyduck]

stock gearing, 275/80/17 tires

thought / opinions?

thanks

Why not gears? Going from 4.10's to 5.29's would be like adding 29% torque everywhere. The cost is a little bit of highway MPG...

-Charlie

 

[St Runner]

Best performance mod I ever did was swap a 5 speed into it. The engine certainly seems more responsive when you can control the rpms better. It suits my driving conditions great but an auto does have its advantages in certain other conditions. Also agree that reducing weight if you can is a big help

 

[theesotericone]

Why not gears? Going from 4.10's to 5.29's would be like adding 29% torque everywhere. The cost is a little bit of highway MPG...

-Charlie

My cost from going from 4.10 to 5.29 was actually a MPG increase. I live in an area that I can easily go from 4000' to 10000' in 15 miles.

With the old gear set my truck never used OD. It was constantly in 3rd revving at 3300 -3500 RPM's at 75MPH. With the new gear set it holds OD 90% of the time. That leaves me at 2900-3000 RPM's at 75MPH. When it does drop into 3rd I pay the price of running 4000-4200 RPM's at that speed. For my rig, tire size, driving habits and where I live 5.29's where the best choice I could have made.

 

[mikeferg]

The supercharger is where you want to be at. thats the only real gain you can feel. and plus who doesn't like a sc sounds. keep saving, it will be the sc and the 7th injector kit for it to run good.

 

[gamefreakgc]

"Proven" (sarcasm?) Can you explain this? Because ECT mode does not in any way change the wheel HP or Torque at a given RPM and gear. All it does is change the shift points.

Op, I have headers too. I was lucky I guess because when I had to get my heads redone adding the headers was parts cost ($400) only. I also think you should consider CA smog. Whatever headers you use need to be CARB approved and you need the actual sticker to pass. Everytime I smog it they give me a harder time.

Yeah a guy posted up a dyno sheet on here a while ago showing the before and after. Let me see if I can dig it up.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Yeah a guy posted up a dyno sheet on here a while ago showing the before and after. Let me see if I can dig it up.

I believe you but I also believe that it doesn't make any sense. When doing a dyno, wouldn't that be done (at the highest end of HP/torque curve) without shifting?

And the ETC only changes shift points, it doesn't change power output, at least as I understand it, which is why I said something.

 

[Hepar]

keep saving, it will be the sc and the 7th injector kit for it to run good.

I'm running the stock pulley with no fuel mods and it is perfect. Was only going to go 7th injector if I had pinging problems. I did for the start when I was running it with the deckplate mod, but after going back to the stock airbox, it's been great. Did lose a tiny bit of power, but my aim was never to max that out.

I believe you but I also believe that it doesn't make any sense. When doing a dyno, wouldn't that be done (at the highest end of HP/torque curve) without shifting?

And the ETC only changes shift points, it doesn't change power output, at least as I understand it, which is why I said something.

Probably 10hp in comparison to the current speed. Since it shifts later, fair to say you'll be at a higher rpm through the tale end of the shift, thus the appearance of more hp?

 

[JayRolla]

Just a change of air temp can give you 5hp. I've been on dynos a few times and literally you can see 5-30hp difference on back to back runs.

If you want more power supercharge. You could spend the same money on headers, exhaust, pulleys, weight mods and still the SC will give you more power and can be installed in a few hours.

 

[BrianSD_42]

Probably 10hp in comparison to the current speed. Since it shifts later, fair to say you'll be at a higher rpm through the tale end of the shift, thus the appearance of more hp?

Appearance is the key word.

But on a Dyno isn't it capturing the max HP at the wheels and during that moment the vehicle is not shifting in any way so it does not matter at all, even in appearances.

And for other reasons ETC has still has no effect on max HP... ETC only changes the shift points, nothing else. Your max HP is not achieved/measured during the second that the vehicle is shifting gears.

I slightly feel like I'm being trolled lol.

 

[Hepar]

I slightly feel like I'm being trolled lol.

Well, to be clear on my end. I don't believe that the ETC adds any sort of HP. Just trying to theorize how a dyno would give off the appearance of 10 more HP at certain points.

 

[gamefreakgc]

I believe you but I also believe that it doesn't make any sense. When doing a dyno, wouldn't that be done (at the highest end of HP/torque curve) without shifting?

And the ETC only changes shift points, it doesn't change power output, at least as I understand it, which is why I said something.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/53420-what-does-ect-button-do-really-3.html#post2355588

Here's one example, but it's not the one I was thinking of. Someone else did a back-to-back dyno run with a stock engine and gained ~5HP. I cannot for the life of me find it though.

In that dyno he did the ECT Power button on after the dyno with it off, so that rules out heat soak killing the numbers for the second run. If they had been switched around the numbers would be even more dramatic.

 

[gamefreakgc]

Well, to be clear on my end. I don't believe that the ETC adds any sort of HP. Just trying to theorize how a dyno would give off the appearance of 10 more HP at certain points.

Yeah I agree, it's not like the ECT button magically changes fuel or timing or something. My guess is that it changes how much drag the transmission is putting on the driveline, or how the torque converter is acting that ends up showing up on the dyno that's reading based on inertia. Who knows?

Next time I go on a dyno I'm going to see if I can duplicate the results.

 

[Scramble]

buy once, cry once performance upgrades - SUPERCHARGER!
Put it on the CC, $250 a month & it's paid off in a year. You only live once, go for it.