Buyer Beware - Moog LCAs

[cbielat]

I just looked at the Total Chaos lower control arms on their website. The have a few different sizes and types for the 5th Gen T4R. The 2" Race Series Kit LCA increases the track width by 4" total (2" each side, no duh right). The 3.5" increases the track by 7". I could not tell why anyone would want to increase the track width as much as 7" unless you were racing off road or wanted a radical look that would be hard to park in a narrow space. It has other benefits for long travel suspension and a mount for a secondary shock.

Total Chaos does not list the price of these, AFAIK. The price would be available on retail sites like Total Auto Performance LV or Wheelers.

TOTAL CHAOS FABRICATION - 2010+ FJ Cruiser 2WD & 4WD2010+ 4Runner 2WD & 4WD Long Travel Suspension Kit

Has anyone mounted one of these TC LCA? And what might the benefits be that I'm not seeing.

The Race Version lowers also come in stock length.

 

[solidtd3]

Encountered the exact same issue 2/12/19 purchasing MOOG LCAs from Rock Auto.

These parts DO NOT FIT. Buy them at the risk of having your truck on jack stands for a few days.

MOOG RK622834
MOOG RK622835

 

[snydmax]

FWIW... moog parts with the RK.... part numbers are cheaper and less robust than the CK... part numbers that are considered “heavy duty” and tend to include the “problem solver” components etc


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[sd_goodlife]

There are 2 different numbers for moog control arms. There is a CK# and those are moog and then there is the RK# that are cheaper and were the ones that we reboxed. I don't know if there are any LCA's for the 4Runner in moog CK#'s. I'll look when I go to work.

Edit: the CK# control arms are not made for the 4Runner.

I was just about to order these LCA for my 2008 4Runner, but I'll pass! Pretty shady of them repackaging the cheaper ones. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Good question. I was hearing cluncking noises while driving the pot-hole stricken-ed I-35, here in Dallas. When I took it in to a shop (Drivers Edge) to get checked out, they inspected all sorts of things .. the only thing they came back with was that the LCA bushings on the driver side were going bad. They had me come into the shop to let me "feel" the LCA while the vehicle was rocked side to side -- around the bushing area I could feel/hear some popping/vibrations --- compared to the passenger side. Then to validate, they used a stethoscope that had this rod at the end, and wedged in close enough to the bushing to listen for abnormalities.

I admit, I'm a total noob when it comes to all this, so I'm really basing it on what the mechanics told and showed me. They really weren't trying to sell me on anything because they gave me options I could go with -- either with their shop or not -- of replacing just the bushings or going with new LCAs.

What do you all think? Is there a way I can tell myself if they are bad?

Edit: Also, I bought this 4Runner used, this past Feb 2016 with 86K miles, so I have no idea what the previous owner did

The rear LCA bushing will clunk if not properly torqued. IIR It's like 90 ft lbs.

Interesting that the Toyota crowd rags on Moog. Over on thetruckstop.us which is a chevy diesel site, they love the Moog problem solver parts and they have been good for me.

 

[85GT-79FJ40]

This is an old thread but on a related note the later model FJ Cruiser polyurethane lower control arm bushings do fit 5th gen 4Runners. I have them in mine. A total PITA to install but well worth it in the end. Besides cases of torn boots I haven't ever replaced a lower ball joint in a Toyota truck. And I've had 17 of them. Granted not all of them had ball joints as 5-6 were solid axle but still.

 

[FourT6and2]

The rear LCA bushing will clunk if not properly torqued. IIR It's like 90 ft lbs.

Interesting that the Toyota crowd rags on Moog. Over on thetruckstop.us which is a chevy diesel site, they love the Moog problem solver parts and they have been good for me.

I'm bumping this thread again because it's pertinent and I wish I'd seen it earlier. So maybe this will help others.

Moog DOES NOT make replacement LCAs for the 5th gen. 4Runner in their more stout "Problem Solver" line. The ones they offer are their cheaper, lower-quality variety with the "RK" prefix. I recently needed new LCAs due to mine rusting and the cam bolts seizing so badly that everything needed to be cut apart. And It was easier to just buy new arms rather than trying to press new bushings. This is on a '21 4Runner, which is utterly ridiculous that these vehicles rust so badly in such a short amount of time. I'm in California, too. I do see snow, but it's not like driving on salted roads in the Northeast.

Anyway, none of my local dealers had OEM arms available, so the shop ordered aftermarket. I wasn't knowledgable at the time so I didn't ask too many questions other than did this shop trust these parts (a supposedly well-known and respected 4x4 shop). They said, yes, they're great. No problems and they use them all the time. They billed me $1,000 for them. Dealers wanted $1500 for OEM (which were backordered).

Fast forward, and I've got clunking in the front end now. This is literally one day after install. I start doing research and discover all the issues with not torquing the cam bolts properly, etc. Well... they installed Moog arms that are $183 each from Moog. So they overcharged me a crap ton. And I'm gonna have words with them tomorrow. They also charged me for new OEM cam bolts/cams/bolts, but they don't appear OEM to me. So now I'm trying to source OEM replacements.

Anyway, I wish I had just gone with OEM but I couldn't have my 4Runner sit on jacks at this shop for weeks.

Hopefully the OEM cam bolts/washers/etc. fit these Moog arms now and that particular issue has been resolved since this thread was started. I'll know for sure shortly. I might end up having to get OEM anyway if they don't.

Also... OEM torque spec is 130 ft/lbs! Not 100. Not 90. THEY WILL CLUNK IF NOT TORQUED TO 130.

 

[honda250xtitan]

I'm bumping this thread again because it's pertinent and I wish I'd seen it earlier. So maybe this will help others.

Moog DOES NOT make replacement LCAs for the 5th gen. 4Runner in their more stout "Problem Solver" line. The ones they offer are their cheaper, lower-quality variety with the "RK" prefix. I recently needed new LCAs due to mine rusting and the cam bolts seizing so badly that everything needed to be cut apart. And It was easier to just buy new arms rather than trying to press new bushings. This is on a '21 4Runner, which is utterly ridiculous that these vehicles rust so badly in such a short amount of time. I'm in California, too. I do see snow, but it's not like driving on salted roads in the Northeast.

Anyway, none of my local dealers had OEM arms available, so the shop ordered aftermarket. I wasn't knowledgable at the time so I didn't ask too many questions other than did this shop trust these parts (a supposedly well-known and respected 4x4 shop). They said, yes, they're great. No problems and they use them all the time. They billed me $1,000 for them. Dealers wanted $1500 for OEM (which were backordered).

Fast forward, and I've got clunking in the front end now. This is literally one day after install. I start doing research and discover all the issues with not torquing the cam bolts properly, etc. Well... they installed Moog arms that are $183 each from Moog. So they overcharged me a crap ton. And I'm gonna have words with them tomorrow. They also charged me for new OEM cam bolts/cams/bolts, but they don't appear OEM to me. So now I'm trying to source OEM replacements.

Anyway, I wish I had just gone with OEM but I couldn't have my 4Runner sit on jacks at this shop for weeks.

Hopefully the OEM cam bolts/washers/etc. fit these Moog arms now and that particular issue has been resolved since this thread was started. I'll know for sure shortly. I might end up having to get OEM anyway if they don't.

Also... OEM torque spec is 130 ft/lbs! Not 100. Not 90. THEY WILL CLUNK IF NOT TORQUED TO 130.

that sucks! honestly for that much, i'd go total chaos or dirt king or camburg stock width arms. upraded everything, suspension will cycle better, and fully rebuildable.

 

[FourT6and2]

I'd also like to point out, again for anybody going through a similar situation, that the part numbers in the OP's post were wrong and that is why he was experiencing issues.

Moog part number RK620061 and RK620062 are Lower Control Arms for a 2003 - 2009 2WD 4Runner or 4WD 4Runner with KDSS. His vehicle was a 2011. The Moog part numbers for NEWER model 5th Gen 4Runners with 4WD and WITHOUT KDSS are: RK623321 and RK623322. The inner diameter of the bushing holes for the cam bolts is different.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I'm bumping this thread again because it's pertinent and I wish I'd seen it earlier. So maybe this will help others.

Moog DOES NOT make replacement LCAs for the 5th gen. 4Runner in their more stout "Problem Solver" line. The ones they offer are their cheaper, lower-quality variety with the "RK" prefix. I recently needed new LCAs due to mine rusting and the cam bolts seizing so badly that everything needed to be cut apart. And It was easier to just buy new arms rather than trying to press new bushings. This is on a '21 4Runner, which is utterly ridiculous that these vehicles rust so badly in such a short amount of time. I'm in California, too. I do see snow, but it's not like driving on salted roads in the Northeast.

Anyway, none of my local dealers had OEM arms available, so the shop ordered aftermarket. I wasn't knowledgable at the time so I didn't ask too many questions other than did this shop trust these parts (a supposedly well-known and respected 4x4 shop). They said, yes, they're great. No problems and they use them all the time. They billed me $1,000 for them. Dealers wanted $1500 for OEM (which were backordered).

Fast forward, and I've got clunking in the front end now. This is literally one day after install. I start doing research and discover all the issues with not torquing the cam bolts properly, etc. Well... they installed Moog arms that are $183 each from Moog. So they overcharged me a crap ton. And I'm gonna have words with them tomorrow. They also charged me for new OEM cam bolts/cams/bolts, but they don't appear OEM to me. So now I'm trying to source OEM replacements.

Anyway, I wish I had just gone with OEM but I couldn't have my 4Runner sit on jacks at this shop for weeks.

Hopefully the OEM cam bolts/washers/etc. fit these Moog arms now and that particular issue has been resolved since this thread was started. I'll know for sure shortly. I might end up having to get OEM anyway if they don't.

Also... OEM torque spec is 130 ft/lbs! Not 100. Not 90. THEY WILL CLUNK IF NOT TORQUED TO 130.

You need to get educated on vehicle repair and maintenance. I did say Moog Problem Solver parts are great. Moog apparently acquired a separate lower quality line of Chinese made suspension parts which I would not recommend.

Then it was verified by other posters here that you ordered the wrong Moog part #s. You just went on a rant about Moog parts, yet you bought wrong part #s. Clearly you are in over your head. You have never done this work yourself. No one should be listening to, or taking advice from you. I’ll give you credit for trying, but some people are better off not trying.

We have 361K miles on our 2014 SR5. The upper and lower LCAs are original OEM. The SR5 has split time between Southern California and Montana and has done a fair amount of off-road work. We don’t have any rust. I regularly check for play and have yet to find any. That said, tire wear and sounds while off-road suggest the ball joints got some wear. Plan is to replace with OEM upper and lower at 400K miles.

Also, whomever told you OEM LCAs are $1500 is lying through their teeth:

 

[FourT6and2]

You need to get educated on vehicle repair and maintenance.

I suppose you're about to "educate" me...

I did say Moog Problem Solver parts are great. Moog apparently acquired a separate lower quality line of Chinese made suspension parts which I would not recommend.

Right. Already been said. But, Moog does not offer Problem Solver LCA for the 5th Gen. 4Runner...

Then it was verified by other posters here that you ordered the wrong Moog part #s. Clearly you are in over your head on this.

You have me confused with someone else. Not me, buddy.

We have 361K miles on our 2014 SR5. The upper and lower LCAs are original OEM. The SR5 has split time between Southern California and Montana and has done a fair amount of off-road work. We don’t have any rust. I regularly check for play and have yet to find any. That said, tire wear and sounds while off-road suggest the ball joints got some wear. Plan is to replace with OEM upper and lower at 400K miles.

Congratulations?

Also, whomever told you OEM LCAs are $1500 is lying through their teeth:

Not lying, per se. They SHOULDN'T BE $1500, but that's what they charge around here.

I live in CA Bay Area. Dealerships here charges huge markups on everything, including parts. Stevens Creek Toyota wanted $1,500 for LCAs. They wanted $400 for cam alignment bolts. Ridiculous. Same with Toyota SF. Also, none of the dealers here had parts available. They were backordered a few weeks to months and I couldn't have my only vehicle sit without suspension at a shop that long. So I went with Moog since they were available. I called a few out of state dealers but none of them would ship LCA.

Anyway... I got the noise issue sorted out and the 4Runner is up and running. The noise issue wasn't the LCA. The shop used aftermarket cam alignment bolts/eccentric washers. I sourced OEM ones and torqued them properly. Noise gone.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Teach me, master.



Right. Which is what's already been said in this thread. But, Moog does not offer Problem Solver LCA for the 5th Gen. 4Runner...



You have me confused with someone else. What are you talking about? Not me, buddy.




Congratulations?



I live in CA Bay Area. Every dealership here charges huge markups on everything, including parts. Stevens Creek Toyota wanted $1500 for LCAs. They wanted $400 for cam alignment bolts. Ridiculous. Same with Toyota SF and every other dealer in the area. Also, none of the dealers here had parts available. They were backordered a few weeks to months and I couldn't have my only vehicle sit without suspension at a shop that long. So I went with Moog since they were available. I called a few out of state dealers but none of them would ship LCA.

Anyway... I got the noise issue sorted out and the 4Runner is up and running. The noise issue wasn't the LCA. The shop used aftermarket cam alignment bolts/eccentric washers. I sourced OEM ones and torqued them properly. Noise gone.

The only thing you posted that is accurate is that Moog does not make the problem solver line for the Toyota 4Runner.

So after all this rant on Moog parts, your problem was incorrect or aftermarket LCA bolts and cam washers. You need to find another mechanic. You also need to move away from that Bay Area shithole to lower your blood pressure.

You can always order Toyota parts online for far lower than the delearship will charge. Example: local Toyota Lithia dealership wanted $530 for an alternator. Got it from Lithia on line for $327 plus shipping. Had to wait two more days, but you have to get appointments at dealerships. Took me a little over an hour to install. There’s some education, but my expectations are low with you.

 

[FourT6and2]

The only thing you posted that is accurate is that Moog does not make the problem solver line for the Toyota 4Runner.

You can always order Toyota parts online for far lower than the delearship will charge. Example: local Toyota Lithia dealership wanted $530 for an alternator. Got it from Lithia on line for $327 plus shipping. Had to wait two more days, but you have to get appointments at dealerships. Took me a little over an hour to install. There’s some education, but my expectations are low with you.

I don't know what your problem is. You have me confused with someone else dude...

 

[CutthroatSlam]

I don't know what your problem is. You have me confused with someone else dude...

I don’t look at names, just that you quoted me and your responses are inaccurate, dude.

 

[FourT6and2]

I don’t look at names, just that you quoted me and your responses are inaccurate, dude.

Again, if we are talking about the same thing (LCA eccentric cam bolts), the torque spec is 130 lb/ft. Maybe you were referring to the ball joint? That's 104 lb/ft. Lower ball joint attachment bolts are 118. If you torque any of these parts to "like 90 lb/ft" you're gonna get clunking. And Moog does not make Problem Solver LCA for the 5th Gen. 4Runner. If you don't look at people's screen names when you call them idiots, maybe take a look in the mirror. Nothing I said was inaccurate.

 

[CutthroatSlam]

Again, if we are talking about the same thing (LCA eccentric cam bolts), the torque spec is 130 lb/ft. Maybe you were referring to the ball joint? That's 104 lb/ft. Lower ball joint attachment bolts are 118. If you torque any of these parts to "like 90 lb/ft" you're gonna get clunking. And Moog does not make Problem Solver LCA for the 5th Gen. 4Runner. If you don't look at people's screen names when you call them idiots, maybe take a look in the mirror. Nothing I said was inaccurate.

I’ve torqued the LCA bolts to 130 lbs after an alignment shop only did it to 90 lbs which left them clunking. Moog makes high quality suspension parts. The entire title to this thread is dissing on Moog parts when it was really the OP’s lack of experience. Most of the people on these forums are barely capable of changing their own oil. The poster claimed he went with Moog LCAs for $1,000 because they want $1,500 for OEM. Right off the bat I found OEM LCAs for $282 each. Tells you all you need to know about the OP.