Calling All Kings: an informational survey

Posting in case helpful to those planning or having unexpected firmness from Kings. I can’t speculate if springs or valving alone were the main contributor to a better ride versus equal roles since both were changed at once.

2018 install

Year, model: 2014 Trail
Compression Adjusters: No
Valving: OEM
KDSS: Yes
Spring rate: 550 king front & +2”+200lb rear
Preload: 4/9 D/P level
Height increase: 2.5” front 2” rear
Major weight upgrades: Full skids, sliders, roof rack, second battery & gear
A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: Drove like a brick poop house offroad. Unexpected holes/bumps were traumatizing for passengers at all times. Coming from stock to lifted Bilstein 5100 then to kings, this was a large waste of time and money. Ordered from Filthy over the phone with explicit weight distribution and goals and was told not to custom valve, to go with OEM, and take the 550 springs. Using my custom wired KDSS “off” switch made no discernable improvement unlike when the 5100’s where on and able to soften up the ride. Eventually added a bumper+winch (with plans to change the spring rate), cranked the preload to 7/11, yet the ride was unchanged. I could not understand any of the hype.

2021 follow-up

Valving: Accutune custom tune
KDSS: Yes
Spring rate: 650 Eibach front & no change rear
Preload: 3/5 D/P level
Height increase: no change
Major weight upgrades: Added warn bumper + winch
A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: Increased front spring rate with non-OEM valving made an immediate difference. I finally grasp the concept of soaking up rough terrain. KDSS “off” switch once again perceivable and useful for expected circumstances, same as previously with 5100’s. Only regret now is buying from Filthy and waiting this long to change things up.

Separate note I sort of wish I had installed a rear shock skid as they have some gnarly gouges from the trail besides the pitting. On a positive note, I split a pair cheap shock rubber boots and zip tied them over the rears. As of today the rear shafts are smooth like the day they were installed.
 
Just a note: I'm loving this forum.

I just received my initial suspension setup. It will not be installed for a couple weeks. I'll describe what I got and give the details after installation maybe with pics.

21 ORP w/KDSS will be driven 95% on street until it ages awhile.

Front: King extended w/550lb. springs and adjusters. SPC UCAs. I'm planning for 2.25-2.5" mild lift in front.

Rear: King extended w/adjusters. KDSS spacer, Toytec 2" bump stop spacer. I'm not sure how much weight I'm putting in the rear, so I'm just going to start with 1.5" spacer until I decide how much permanent weight I'll be running. I'll be experimenting a little.

I will be running ORP stock wheels with BFG K02's in 285/70 for the time being. However, I might switch to lighter wheels and 255/80s in the future

Weight: I've ordered RSG sliders and C4 low pro winch bumper. I haven't decided on a winch, thinking Warn VR EVO 10-s. I'll be going with aluminum armor, probably RCI.

I'm trying not to add too much weight as long as its being driven mostly on the pavement (mall crawler LOL) In the future it will progressively get more and more off-road time.

I'll update after install.
 
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ScottsBad said:
I just received my initial suspension setup. Will not be installed for a couple weeks. I'll describe what I got and give the details after installation.

21 ORP w/KDSS will be driven 95% on street until it ages awhile.

Front: King extended w/550lb. springs and adjusters. SPC UCAs. I'm planning for 2.25-2.5" mild lift in front.

Rear: King extended w/adjusters. KDSS spacer, Toytec 2" bump stop spacer. I'm not sure how much weight I'm putting in the rear, so I'm just going to start with 1.5" spacer until I decide how much permanent weight I'll be running. I'll be experimenting a little.

I will be running ORP stock wheels with BFG K02's in 285/70 for the time being. However, I might switch to 255/80s in the future

I've ordered RSG sliders and C4 low pro winch bumper, and I haven't decided on a winch. I'll be going with aluminum armor, probably RCI.

I'm trying not to add too much weight as long as its being driven mostly on the pavement. In the future it could become an overlander, then I'll need more equipment, and a rear bumper.

I'll update after install.
Click to expand...

FYI:
550 is not enough with what you are planning. I had to have massive amounts of preload to keep my front up, and it was nose diving at braking, and riding the bump stops when I was offroading, when I had the exact same setup as you. I'd move up to 600-650 if I were you, or prepare to pay the installer twice when you upgrade later.

550 is great if you are BONE STOCK (as in no weight added).
 
mrblah said:
FYI:
550 is not enough with what you are planning. I had to have massive amounts of preload to keep my front up, and it was nose diving at braking, and riding the bump stops when I was offroading, when I had the exact same setup as you. I'd move up to 600-650 if I were you, or prepare to pay the installer twice when you upgrade later.

550 is great if you are BONE STOCK (as in no weight added).
Click to expand...

Thanks for the heads up.

Winch with synthetic rope and bumper is 120-130 pounds. Skids are aluminum and I haven't bought these yet, but distributed maybe 50lbs. Sliders 100lbs distributed. This might add a couple hundred pounds to the front.

Well, it's probably on the border. I'd rather be slightly under-sprung than over-sprung for my purposes. But you have a point.

I'll talk to my supplier again to make sure we aren't out of whack. Also, its going to be months before the front bumper/winch is going to be delivered. I'll be able to drive with just the sliders and armor for awhile first.

My 4R is going to be primarily a road vehicle for a few years, probably realistically more than 95% road miles. It will see some dirt, for light camping, exploration, and some mild off road travel with gear. Not too worried about bottoming or super hard hits, more interested in dealing with roughness and washboard. As it ages, it will transition to more off road use.

The question I have for you is how high is your lift? I'm looking for 2.25" in front, not three. I wonder if that might make a difference. Anyway, thank for the heads up.
 
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even bone stock weight i feel like with spirited driving the 550 springs arent enough. then again valving would fix that. off the shelf kings ride plush, once you push them you use up shock travel quickly lol
 
ScottsBad said:
Thanks for the heads up.

Winch with synthetic rope and bumper is 120-130 pounds. Skids are aluminum and I haven't bought these yet, but distributed maybe 50lbs. Sliders 100lbs distributed. This might add a couple hundred pounds to the front.

Well, it's probably on the border. I'd rather be slightly under-sprung than over-sprung for my purposes. But you have a point.

I'll talk to my supplier again to make sure we aren't out of whack. Also, its going to be months before the front bumper/winch is going to be delivered. I'll be able to drive with just the sliders and armor for awhile first.

My 4R is going to be primarily a road vehicle for a few years, probably realistically more than 95% road miles. It will see some dirt, for light camping, exploration, and some mild off road travel with gear. Not too worried about bottoming or super hard hits, more interested in dealing with roughness and washboard. As it ages, it will transition to more off road use.

The question I have for you is how high is your lift? I'm looking for 2.25" in front, not three. I wonder if that might make a difference. Anyway, thank for the heads up.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i went from 550 to 700, which is probably NOT the recommended route.

At 700, I got 3 inches of lift with no preload. I have since swapped out my LCA's, added more armor, and my suspension has settled so my lift has gone down to about a 2 inch lift, with no preload.

Point is, you are looking between 600 to 650, but I'm not sure where you should be.

Ideally, you want to be undersprung and then have the shocks tuned for whatever weight you plan. shocks should do the damping and springs do the lifting.

If you are undersprung and underdamped... the driving experience sucks. It's like the worst setup you can have. Your suspension drives like its broken.

I'm currently oversprung and underdamped, which is not ideal either. I am not telling you to do this. However, this worked for me. (waiting for my vaporware rear bumper and finishing my probably never going to complete dual battery setup).
 
GChristo said:
Posting in case helpful to those planning or having unexpected firmness from Kings. I can’t speculate if springs or valving alone were the main contributor to a better ride versus equal roles since both were changed at once.

2018 install

Year, model: 2014 Trail
Compression Adjusters: No
Valving: OEM
KDSS: Yes
Spring rate: 550 king front & +2”+200lb rear
Preload: 4/9 D/P level
Height increase: 2.5” front 2” rear
Major weight upgrades: Full skids, sliders, roof rack, second battery & gear
A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: Drove like a brick poop house offroad. Unexpected holes/bumps were traumatizing for passengers at all times. Coming from stock to lifted Bilstein 5100 then to kings, this was a large waste of time and money. Ordered from Filthy over the phone with explicit weight distribution and goals and was told not to custom valve, to go with OEM, and take the 550 springs. Using my custom wired KDSS “off” switch made no discernable improvement unlike when the 5100’s where on and able to soften up the ride. Eventually added a bumper+winch (with plans to change the spring rate), cranked the preload to 7/11, yet the ride was unchanged. I could not understand any of the hype.

2021 follow-up

Valving: Accutune custom tune
KDSS: Yes
Spring rate: 650 Eibach front & no change rear
Preload: 3/5 D/P level
Height increase: no change
Major weight upgrades: Added warn bumper + winch
A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: Increased front spring rate with non-OEM valving made an immediate difference. I finally grasp the concept of soaking up rough terrain. KDSS “off” switch once again perceivable and useful for expected circumstances, same as previously with 5100’s. Only regret now is buying from Filthy and waiting this long to change things up.

Separate note I sort of wish I had installed a rear shock skid as they have some gnarly gouges from the trail besides the pitting. On a positive note, I split a pair cheap shock rubber boots and zip tied them over the rears. As of today the rear shafts are smooth like the day they were installed.
Click to expand...

I had a similar experience with Filthy. I ordered from them in 2018 and thought I was getting custom valved King shocks perfect for me. It was stressed that I shouldn't change the preload at all and just install everything because it was already "tuned" for me.

Well, when I put everything on, I had less than 1" lift up front and over 3" lift in back, giving me around 4.5" rake, and rode like shit. They had sent me 550lb front coils with no preload and HD ToyTech springs for the back. When I contacted Ben, he said that King didn't preload the coilovers per their "specs" before they sent them to me and that the latest batch of ToyTech HD springs must've been wound too tall. I had to add preload to the front myself with the coilovers on (not fun) and he also sent me a pair of ToyTech Superflex coils to swap out in the back. So much for "custom-tuned"! He's just a drop shipper.

It did ride a little better after adding preload and swapping the springs, but it was still too stiff and bouncy in the back and always felt squirrelly around corners, etc. Drove it like that for a couple of years or so, but I could never get it to hold a good alignment and noticed the back tires were wearing weird. So, a few months ago I installed eimkeith's panhard correction kit in the back, and it made an instant HUGE improvement!!! It drove like a sports car around corners and soaked up all the bumps like it was supposed to from the start! The rear was still a little oversprung, but I loved driving it! Shouldn't do a lift without panhard bar correction!

I recently installed a full steel bumper from Relentless, and had to add a bunch of preload to the front 550lb springs. Riding like crap again, so I just ordered some 600lb front coils and Eibach rear springs from Accutune to hopefully get me back to the ride I want.

I will be taking them off and sending them to Accutune for rebuilding and tuning sometime this winter when I can be without it for a couple of weeks.
 
fungusbrain said:
I had a similar experience with Filthy. I ordered from them in 2018 and thought I was getting custom valved King shocks perfect for me. It was stressed that I shouldn't change the preload at all and just install everything because it was already "tuned" for me.

Well, when I put everything on, I had less than 1" lift up front and over 3" lift in back, giving me around 4.5" rake, and rode like shit. They had sent me 550lb front coils with no preload and HD ToyTech springs for the back. When I contacted Ben, he said that King didn't preload the coilovers per their "specs" before they sent them to me and that the latest batch of ToyTech HD springs must've been wound too tall. I had to add preload to the front myself with the coilovers on (not fun) and he also sent me a pair of ToyTech Superflex coils to swap out in the back. So much for "custom-tuned"! He's just a drop shipper.

It did ride a little better after adding preload and swapping the springs, but it was still too stiff and bouncy in the back and always felt squirrelly around corners, etc. Drove it like that for a couple of years or so, but I could never get it to hold a good alignment and noticed the back tires were wearing weird. So, a few months ago I installed eimkeith's panhard correction kit in the back, and it made an instant HUGE improvement!!! It drove like a sports car around corners and soaked up all the bumps like it was supposed to from the start! The rear was still a little oversprung, but I loved driving it! Shouldn't do a lift without panhard bar correction!

I recently installed a full steel bumper from Relentless, and had to add a bunch of preload to the front 550lb springs. Riding like crap again, so I just ordered some 600lb front coils and Eibach rear springs from Accutune to hopefully get me back to the ride I want.

I will be taking them off and sending them to Accutune for rebuilding and tuning sometime this winter when I can be without it for a couple of weeks.
Click to expand...

man thats annoying. can confirm, those toytech HD's are stiff unless youre fully loaded up.
 
mrblah said:
Yeah, i went from 550 to 700, which is probably NOT the recommended route.

At 700, I got 3 inches of lift with no preload. I have since swapped out my LCA's, added more armor, and my suspension has settled so my lift has gone down to about a 2 inch lift, with no preload.

Point is, you are looking between 600 to 650, but I'm not sure where you should be.

Ideally, you want to be undersprung and then have the shocks tuned for whatever weight you plan. shocks should do the damping and springs do the lifting.

If you are undersprung and underdamped... the driving experience sucks. It's like the worst setup you can have. Your suspension drives like its broken.

I'm currently oversprung and underdamped, which is not ideal either. I am not telling you to do this. However, this worked for me. (waiting for my vaporware rear bumper and finishing my probably never going to complete dual battery setup).
Click to expand...

Well, I recently changed from the stock Dunlap tires to BFG K02s load range C in 285/70 with stock OPR wheels.

Rides slightly rougher, which was expected because of the tire change. But it continues to be very comfortable on road. I haven't been able to spend much time off road yet.

Hazzard Fab Worx, up here, did a nice install job. And put in a diff drop too.

No tire rubbing so far, but I've yet to fully test it so I'm pretty sure there will be some mods necessary.

As far as added weight; It will be interesting to see what happens as I add the low pro bumper and VR EVO w/synthetic cable winch, aluminum skid plates and RSG sliders.

Slider weight is distributed front to back 120lb. Bumper and winch is 150lb.
Aluminum skid plates are light.

So, maybe 225-250 to the front, which is on the edge of needing heavier springs.

I will probably never put on a rear bumper and If I do I'll worry about it then.

I believe that from what I read that I can add 200 or so pounds when using the 550 springs before needing to move up in spring weights. In any case, 700 pound springs appear to be overkill for my application.

There isn't a 1 to 1 ratio when deciding on spring weights. If I add 200 pounds it doesn't suddenly mean that I need to have 700 pound springs.

If it turns out that I need too much preload for the gear I'm adding along with my wife and two dogs, I'll make some changes.

Right now, my 4Runner is riding tits.
 
usdmej said:
fwiw filthy motorsports talked me out of increasing the spring rate unless i was planning to add in the 200 pound range to the nose of the car (not even overall)

let us know how those 600# springs work tho!
Click to expand...

This is what Ben told me too (staying with 550), and it has worked out without the C4 low pro. When the low pro and winch are installed I'll have a pretty good idea if that is good advise. Ben mentioned that I can add some preload if I need to, after the winch/bumper is installed. I'll try that before changing springs.

I have a different philosophy than some. I like a good ride on the road and if I bottom on dirty whoops, that will be the suspension gods telling me to slow down a bit. Right now I'm getting a much better ride overall and its corners well. I don't know if the KDSS has anything to do with that. The only slop I'm getting is when braking pretty hard at low speeds.

Where I drive we don't have a lot of high speed off road.

Quick snap with new tires in the garage.
 

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Bryguy17 said:
I'll play. This info was pretty hard to come by when I did my install, and I wish I had more info to inform my settings. Hopefully someone can benefit from this and not need to readjust like I do :)

- 2016 TE
- KDSS. No lean compensation needed.
- 650# springs in front, SAW ~1.5" coils rear.
- 3 turns preload on both front coils. 1.25" spacers all around (Increases the motion ratio, so more preload is needed to achieve the same lift)
- no adjusters, no regrets about not getting them.
- extended travel front shocks, total chaos ucas
- Currently 1.5"F/2.0"R.
- SSO front bumper, Warn ZEON 10-s, OPOR sliders, Gobi, RTT, and about 100lbs of tools/gear in back. Second battery is in the works.
- I will be adding 4-5 turns of preload to bring me to 2.5"/2" F/R lift to level everything out. Needs bigger tires too, but I'll wait until I wear out the 265's first.
- Overall very happy with the setup. Feels a bit stiffer unladen on the road over small bumps than stock (especially in the rear). Once you get the high-speed compression circuit to open up (large, fast hits like potholes and larger bumps), it is straight butter. Higher-speed travel in rough stuff is night a day difference from stock, even with the KDSS. Still corners like a race car on the road. Articulation is still great.

And extremely unexciting driveway shot (but best I have at the moment):
Click to expand...

this looks surprisingly good w/ 265s
 
ScottsBad said:
Well, I recently changed from the stock Dunlap tires to BFG K02s load range C in 285/70 with stock OPR wheels.

Rides slightly rougher, which was expected because of the tire change. But it continues to be very comfortable on road. I haven't been able to spend much time off road yet.

Hazzard Fab Worx, up here, did a nice install job. And put in a diff drop too.

No tire rubbing so far, but I've yet to fully test it so I'm pretty sure there will be some mods necessary.

As far as added weight; It will be interesting to see what happens as I add the low pro bumper and VR EVO w/synthetic cable winch, aluminum skid plates and RSG sliders.

Slider weight is distributed front to back 120lb. Bumper and winch is 150lb.
Aluminum skid plates are light.

So, maybe 225-250 to the front, which is on the edge of needing heavier springs.

I will probably never put on a rear bumper and If I do I'll worry about it then.

I believe that from what I read that I can add 200 or so pounds when using the 550 springs before needing to move up in spring weights. In any case, 700 pound springs appear to be overkill for my application.

There isn't a 1 to 1 ratio when deciding on spring weights. If I add 200 pounds it doesn't suddenly mean that I need to have 700 pound springs.

If it turns out that I need too much preload for the gear I'm adding along with my wife and two dogs, I'll make some changes.

Right now, my 4Runner is riding tits.
Click to expand...

i bet a 600lb spring would be perfect once all the weight it on. with stock weight we blew thru the shock travel on the kings at anything high speed. Make sure you upgrade your bump stops, i'm loving the durobumps up front.
 
Year, model: 2021 offroad premium
- Compression Adjusters: no
- KDSS: no
- Spring rate: fronts are King 550lbs, rear Wheeler's T13
- Preload: D=8 P=4
- Height increase: 2.1in after 7k miles of settling
- Major weight upgrades: sliders
- Changes that you have made in preload or spring rate and why: added more driver to combat lean
- A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: Front feels amazing, I wouldn't change a thing. Super smooth on all types of terrain. Rears I'm not so happy with yet, pretty stiff. I don't know if it's the springs or valving on the shocks.

Factory King tune on the shocks.
 
Just upgraded to King extended travel shocks with adjusters a week ago. How much should I expect the coilovers to settle?

- Year, model: 2017 4Runner SR5 Premium 4x4
- Compression Adjusters: Yes
- KDSS: No
- Spring rate: 550lb with Eibach 1 inch rear coils with OME 10mm spacers on both sides
- Preload: 10 turns driver\5 turns passenger
- Height increase: Driver 21.875\Passenger 22.125 Driver Rear 22.875\Passenger Rear 23.25
- Major weight upgrades: Full aluminum skids, steel sliders, SC, and 100lbs of sound deadening
- Changes that you have made in preload or spring rate and why: Originally had the preload set at 5 turns driver\2 turns passenger thinking the King coilovers were 2 inch lift out of the box with no preload
- A brief set of notes with your thoughts on your setup: I feel like the rear shocks are on the stiffer side. I was expecting a softer ride being everyone says it's like riding on clouds. It's definitely a good sporty feel, and can tell the improvement in control, and how quickly the suspension recovers from bumps at higher speeds. Was aiming for ~2 inch front lift, and ~1.5 inch rear lift
 
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