Calling out the sub-box gods

[Denisimo]

GottabeTRD.

I was thinking just placing your current sub box on top of the wooden floor in your pic right behind the driver seat.

But since you will have a bed in the future, then a sub box built in to the floor in your original idea, will muffle the sub by a large %, simply because it will be covered by a bed.

So here is what i suggest you do. Take your current sub box, place right between the two front seats and face the sub towards the front of the vehicle. Doing so will give you bass right next to your sitting position and loud enough at a much lower volume. Just like two seater cars that have subs facing forward between the seats.
You can even build a tower with two 8" subs. It will use a lot less space, you wont need a large powerful amp and you will still get nice clean bass for any type of music.
Ill photochop your pic in a bit to give an idea what im trying to say.

 

[Denisimo]

Heres a rough sketch of a tower sub box with two 8-10" subs facing towards the dash. The subs you see in the pic, are not facing towards the back of the vehicle, but a simple representation of the idea.

 

[Bucket81]

I would do a single 10 shooting back.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

wow, that looks cool, that's like West Coast Customs style right there! Thanks for making that picture. I don't know if if i trust myself with a saw for something like that, but I'll take a look and think it over

 

[Denisimo]

wow, that looks cool, that's like West Coast Customs style right there! Thanks for making that picture. I don't know if if i trust myself with a saw for something like that, but I'll take a look and think it over

Go to a local car stere shop and run by them my idea and the cost to build a box. Most simple built boxes will cost you around $100-150 with carpet color of your choice. But talk to your local shop for correct pricing, it might be cheaper then what i mentioned. I paid $180 for a carpeted box for two 15" subs.
Plus they will be able to take proper measurements between seats and suggest a correct size subs.
You can also measure space between seats, and if its more then 10", then you can have a single 10"sub, but the box will have to be tall to clear the arm rest. The sub will fire towards the front windshield and the bass wave will bounce back and will fill the front part of the cabin. A 150-200watt rms sub will be more then enough.

 

[Qyota]

Better idea: keep your original plan (post #20), and make the sub "fire" upward. Countersink the sub so it has about 1" of space above it, and cover with a heavy steel mesh...or another piece of wood, but with plenty of holes drilled in it. This is basically a grille. Otherwise, the down-firing option is still the best one. It will sound just fine, especially if you keep one or more ends of the bottom of the box open (see the Pioneer box). The stuff about "bouncing waves" off of something hard isn't necessary. Low frequencies (sub 100Hz or so) are omni-directional, so the orientation of the sub doesn't matter much...especially in a vehicle like this where it's all one compartment.

 

[mattleegee]

what about a box over the hump in the back seat? still fits four nice or have the 5th person stradle it a little bit
then have the amp under either seat to power it
possibly then get a nice 10 or even 12 with enough airspace and still have all cargo room in rear

 

[shootmymime]

SCREW IT! GO BIG
i built my box for like 40-50 including screws and glue and carpet.

 

[Denisimo]

Better idea: keep your original plan (post #20), and make the sub "fire" upward. Countersink the sub so it has about 1" of space above it, and cover with a heavy steel mesh...or another piece of wood, but with plenty of holes drilled in it. This is basically a grille. Otherwise, the down-firing option is still the best one. It will sound just fine, especially if you keep one or more ends of the bottom of the box open (see the Pioneer box). The stuff about "bouncing waves" off of something hard isn't necessary. Low frequencies (sub 100Hz or so) are omni-directional, so the orientation of the sub doesn't matter much...especially in a vehicle like this where it's all one compartment.

Every sub inside a vehicle is omnidirectional. A sub in a house is omnidirectional. In other words, when a bass wave hits an object and it bounces of it in various directions, the sound wave becomes omnidirectional.

Pointing a sub up is counterproductive, since he will have a bed, gear, boxes with equipment right on top of it, and they will cover up the sub preventing the sub wave efficiently traveling to his ears.

There is also thing called accuracy in sub wave. The sound has to reach your ears with in a specific time at a right frequency for it to be accurate as it was intended to be heard by an artist/producer. If it takes too long for sound to reach your ears then it will sound out place and out of sync with the music, or even echo like. And with smaller subs accuracy becomes critical, as they cant deliver the wave to you as quickly vs a large sub.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

thanks for the good ideas and information guys. Shootmymime that thing would rattle my eyeballs out of my head lol!

anyway I appreciate everything, I've actually started the build. After cutting everything I realized how hard it would be to do some of these. My funds are very limited too so paying someone to build it for me would be pretty tough. anyway i decided to stick with the original plan. When i get the sub i'll experiment with the down-firing sub. but here is what i have so far
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/128466-gottabes-rear-cargo-box-build.html

 

[Qyota]

And with smaller subs accuracy becomes critical, as they cant deliver the wave to you as quickly vs a large sub.

What? A wave is a wave, regardless the size of the driver producing it.

 

[GX4SEVEND]

What about having a custom box built in the storage compartment on the right rear panel? Still leave you a ton of space and a lot of people have went this route.

 

[Denisimo]

What? A wave is a wave, regardless the size of the driver producing it.

Thats like saying; A light is a light, so we should go back to using candles in headlights.

 

[OHP]

And with smaller subs accuracy becomes critical, as they cant deliver the wave to you as quickly vs a large sub.

What? A wave is a wave, regardless the size of the driver producing it.[/QUOTE]

Qyota is correct, a wave is a wave. No matter what size driver is producing it, the speed of sound is constant. Therefore at any altitude, the sound wave produced by an 8" driver will reach your ear at the exact same time as the wave produced by a 15" driver. The only variant between the two drivers will be amplitude, which is more a function of power than driver size.

I think what you are trying to explain is time alignment. In a vehicle the subwoofer is usually located in the rear. Therefore the front speakers, which produce the majority of the music, are much closer to your ears. This can cause the sound from the subwoofer to reach your ears a fraction of a second later than the sound coming from the front speakers. In extreme cases it can produce a "muddy" sound to the music. 99% of listeners will never notice it.

A light is also a light. No matter what the source, light travels at the same speed. The only difference there is intensity.

To the OP: in any vehicle, the optimum location for a subwoofer is in a rear corner. However, you can place one anywhere and get decent sound. I have never heard a sub faced forward sound good. The bass frequency waves are very long and usually need to be bounced off the rear of the vehicle to give them enough length to develop a full cycle.

Good luck with your project.

 

[GottaBeTRD]

What about having a custom box built in the storage compartment on the right rear panel? Still leave you a ton of space and a lot of people have went this route.

I considered this, and may still go this route if the down-firing box option doesn't deliver. But so far things are going smooth... well except for the bank account lol

 

[GottaBeTRD]

To the OP: in any vehicle, the optimum location for a subwoofer is in a rear corner. However, you can place one anywhere and get decent sound. I have never heard a sub faced forward sound good. The bass frequency waves are very long and usually need to be bounced off the rear of the vehicle to give them enough length to develop a full cycle.

Good luck with your project.

That's interesting stuff man thanks for your input! The sub i have now faces the back and it sounds good but I want the back of my rig back and I'm hoping the down firing box will satisfy my ears. If not I may try the side cargo area.

 

[OHP]

That's interesting stuff man thanks for your input! The sub i have now faces the back and it sounds good but I want the back of my rig back and I'm hoping the down firing box will satisfy my ears. If not I may try the side cargo area.

The side cargo area is an excellent choice. This is where I have my 10" JL in my 04 Sport. Takes up no cargo space and sounds great.

 

[Offroader5]

I too would lean towards putting it in the rear quarter panel. I'm going to go this route myself and gain back my cargo room for a drawer system. If you want to build it into the void, unless you know how to lay fiberglass...you may want to pay a shop to do it. It's not rocket science, but some just don't want to mess with fiberglass. I've seen good results where people just build an enclosure *around* the rear wheel well (similar to how Qyota posted), and this is mostly woodworking since you can use flats to build it.

Myself, I'm planning on two 8's and want to get it sunk into the quarter panel as much as possible, so I'm opting for the fiberglass option. I was quoted $750 for a local audio shop to build the fiberglass enclosure for me (no sub included) Needless to say, I think I'll do it myself.

 

[Denisimo]

What? A wave is a wave, regardless the size of the driver producing it.

Qyota is correct, a wave is a wave. No matter what size driver is producing it, the speed of sound is constant. Therefore at any altitude, the sound wave produced by an 8" driver will reach your ear at the exact same time as the wave produced by a 15" driver. The only variant between the two drivers will be amplitude, which is more a function of power than driver size.

I think what you are trying to explain is time alignment. In a vehicle the subwoofer is usually located in the rear. Therefore the front speakers, which produce the majority of the music, are much closer to your ears. This can cause the sound from the subwoofer to reach your ears a fraction of a second later than the sound coming from the front speakers. In extreme cases it can produce a "muddy" sound to the music. 99% of listeners will never notice it.

A light is also a light. No matter what the source, light travels at the same speed. The only difference there is intensity.

To the OP: in any vehicle, the optimum location for a subwoofer is in a rear corner. However, you can place one anywhere and get decent sound. I have never heard a sub faced forward sound good. The bass frequency waves are very long and usually need to be bounced off the rear of the vehicle to give them enough length to develop a full cycle.

Good luck with your project.

Light.

Visible light has a wavelength in the range of about 380 nanometres to about 740 nm – between the invisible infrared, with longer wavelengths and the invisible ultraviolet, with shorter wavelengths.

The Quantum Atom
Light - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
HowStuffWorks "Light Frequencies"






Bass waves

RealTraps - Bass Waves in the Control Room
Frequency - Wavelength - Period Chart
http://www.dynacord.com/downloads/dsp244_info_bass_en.pdf

The Soundry: The Physics of Sound
Sound waves

Bass wavelength is dictated by Hz, and not all driver/subbs sizes produces same exact wavelenght(Hz). Long wave length (low frequency), short wave lengths (high frequencies).

Example:
15" 24Hz - 150Hz
10" 39Hz - 150Hz
MTX Audio Thunder 9500 Subwoofers


12" 22Hz - 100Hz
10" 30Hz - 104Hz
MTX Audio TS85 Subwoofers


Here you can compare Freq differences between different drivers/subs and its sizes.
18Hz to 500Hz
6-1/2" to 15".
KICKER | Livin' Loud


http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/01/sound-waves.html
Sound waves exist as variations of pressure in a medium such as air. They are created by the vibration of an object, which causes the air surrounding it to vibrate. The vibrating air then causes the human eardrum to vibrate, which the brain interprets as sound.
And as we all know, there is no sound in space.


What im trying to say, is that your ear-buds arent going to be as loud from 5 feet away as is they would in your ear, or a 15" sub would at same Frequency and distance.
The closer(to some degree) you are to a sub/driver, the louder it will sound. Its not just amplitude that matters. A 15" sub wont sound the same from 5 feet away as it would 500 feet away. Because air also acts as a barrier for waves to travel through. Just as Prius will have less air resistance compared to a School Bus as they both travel at same exact speed.

There is also thing called real state. More subs of same size of same amplitude, move(vibrate) more air and increase dB, creating a larger bass wave. Think of Ocean/water waves; a 15 foot tall wave moving at 20mph or a 10inch foot tall wave moving at 20mph.
So if we place 20 ear-buds side by side, they will sound much louder at same distance vs 1 ear-bud, simply because 20 ear-buds vibrate more air. Other way to think of it, is 1 fan at 10cfm vs 20 fans at 10cfm(more air volume).



Speed of sound.

Altitude also makes a difference since air density, temp and pressure varies.
Speed of sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Speed of sound, loooong read. Covers Temp, solid and liquids through which sound travels, etc etc etc, and everything there is on speed of sound.
Speed of sound - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Here is a good read on Subwoofers: 4, 2, or 1?
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/subwoofers-4-2-or-1-0?page=0,0


.

Edited to add links and information.

 

[Bucket81]

I think your over thinking it, most people use around a $150 driver? That's not a real efficient sub in the first place, its not really going to perform much better with a box that is slightly larger or smaller (your better off a bit smaller IMO) as long as the sub has proper power and the amp is powered properly, and its a sealed box. When your doing a single 10 a ported box is unnecessary.