Can't get crank shaft to TDC

[azcat90]

Changing a TB/WP for the 1st time. I've turned the crank pulley to spin the cam shafts around - the cam shafts have come around to TDC 5 times:

but the crank notch is still pretty far from 0:

How many times do I have to tun this to get it to TDC? Or is it just off by that much?

 

[zacattack20]

Have you removed the old belt yet?

Remove the old belt.
Set the crankshaft to notch to the zero.
Then turn each camshaft to line up.
You can move the crankshaft and camshafts separately.
Then put new belt on with the indicators on the belt in the correct spots.

 

[azcat90]

ok thanks. so does this mean that the timing has been off on this engine? should it run better after?

 

[JRZEE2000TR4LTD]

ok thanks. so does this mean that the timing has been off on this engine? should it run better after?

Every other crankshaft turn,(720 degrees) all the marks (on the pulleys not the belt) should line up. Can't see the crank shaft notch in your picture but if it's right where that red arrow is and the camshaft notches are both lined up then I'd say your timing was off. Should run considerably better.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

When you set the crank to TDC, where do the cam notches line up with the old belt on?

Pic of that closer up, it's hard to tell where they are in your pic. If the old belt is tight relatively speaking chances are slim you jumped a tooth. Even belts with over 120,000 miles line up way closer than yours, if not perfect.

If you did jump a tooth, make sure to change the tensioner. It probably is bad.

I always use marks on the block, and not marks on the crank pulley before loosening the old belt, until i have put it all back together. Then I use the mark on the crank pulley before putting in the crank pulley bolt as a final check

 

[TheDurk]

I'm a little concerned by what I see here. I hope I'm wrong. If the notch is out of sight when the cams are at TDC I doubt the engine would run IF the pulley is installed correctly. I'm thinking that pulley has sheared its key or the pulley was not installed engaging the key. The engine could still be in time if the sprocket is correct, and just the pulley is off. The magnetized tooth is on the sprocket that signals the Crank Position Sensor. (The sprocket is the toothed pulley inside the belt pulley that the timing belt runs on.) There is only a tiny piece of the key, maybe 1/4" that sticks out from the sprocket and engages the belt pulley. If the pulley slips off that nub before the bolt is tight, then the notch will be off, even though the engine is in time. So I'd check that that pulley is installed correctly on the sprocket key.

As stated above, the TB is set using just the sprocket and the mark on the block, while the pulley is still off the engine.

 

[stir_fry_boy]

I'm a little concerned by what I see here. I hope I'm wrong. If the notch is out of sight at TDC I doubt the engine would run IF the pulley is installed correctly. I'm thinking that pulley has sheared its key or the pulley was not installed engaging the key. The engine could still be in time if the sprocket is correct, and just the pulley is off. The magnetized tooth is on the sprocket that signals the Crank Position Sensor. (The sprocket is the toothed pulley inside the belt pulley that the timing belt runs on.) There is only a tiny piece of the key, maybe 1/4" that sticks out from the sprocket and engages the belt pulley. If the pulley slips off that nub before the bolt is tight, then the notch will be off, even though the engine is in time. So I'd check that that pulley is installed correctly on the sprocket key.

Good point.

 

[azcat90]

285K miles on original belt

It has the original belt which has 285K miles on it, tension-er, water pump etc are also all original and I am replacing them all. Engine ran fine as far as I could tell.

Should I replace anything else besides theses parts?:

 

[LittleCaesar]

New drive belts and cam and crank seals if you are up for it.

 

[TheDurk]

New drive belts and cam and crank seals if you are up for it.

Yup, and rad hoses if they look original. Obviously, you will also be replacing coolant. I recommend a really good flush and then Toyota Red.

 

[azcat90]

Drive belts - hoses - seals

OK - Forgot to include I bought new AC/Alt/PS belts this morning - I will add hoses - is changing the cam/crank seals easy? Rad had green coolant in it - not supposed to replace green with red right?

 

[zumogo]

Red is better and get the high quality 4 years life stuff

 

[stir_fry_boy]

OK - Forgot to include I bought new AC/Alt/PS belts this morning - I will add hoses - is changing the cam/crank seals easy? Rad had green coolant in it - not supposed to replace green with red right?

Crank is easy, you need a cam holder and a torque wrench to do the cams. As a hack, you can use oil filter pliers wrapped in a towel to hold cam still and torque back to spec. You can also leave the old belt on, keep crank still as you did to undo the crank pulley bolt, and crack the cam bolts loose. I've done it both ways. Label cam pulleys L and R to make sure you don't swap them, I don't know if they are the same part #.

Be careful to not scratch the block removing the seals, they are metal coated in rubber. Any scratch may cause them to leak.

285k on original belt and everything is impressive.

 

[jeremyc74]

It looks like the original had jumped a tooth or two to me.

Does your new belt have lines on it to match to the timing marks? It looks like it does in the picture, but can't tell for sure.

If it does, those will make it really easy to be sure everything is going back together like it should. Once you get the crank pulley off, the timing chain gear underneath also has a TDC mark on it, but it's off to the side (driver's side) and lines up with a little arrow on the casting.

 

[azcat90]

...Does your new belt have lines on it to match to the timing marks? ...

Yes. Mitsubishi belt with Aisin kit.

 

[jeremyc74]

Yes. Mitsubishi belt with Aisin kit.

I thought so. I just put the same thing on mine. The marks will make it easy to be sure everything is lined up properly.

 

[LittleCaesar]

Also use an OEM t-stat (#90916-03075), not the Gates in the picture:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/166312-oem-vs-aftermarket-surprise-thermostat.html

 

[azcat90]

Also use an OEM t-stat (#90916-03075), not the Gates in the picture:
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/general-discussions/166312-oem-vs-aftermarket-surprise-thermostat.html

Thanks! If I'm going to bury a part that deep it better work - I'll pick up a Toyota part.

 

[azcat90]

Crank timing pulley view - yeah I chipped part of it off with a screwdriver

So the crank was/is off a couple teeth and as i was trying to pull off the crank timing pulley to change the crank seal, I chipped part of it off with my screwdriver. :redbrick:

So...

A. Do I now need to replace the crank pulley?

B. How do i get it off to replace the seal?

 

[LittleCaesar]

Yes, the little teeth is what is read by the crank sensor. Costs about $60. Dealer only item.

Lots of PB blaster, then take a small hammer (think 5oz rock hammer) and hit it on all sides. Taking the key way out of the crank would probably help, so soak it as well.