2021nightshade4x4
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Subscription-Based Pricing Coming to Features Your Car Already Has
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Car companies stand to make billions by charging you monthly fees for add-on features
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Steel-Driver-76
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"Consumers don't seem as excited about the trend as car companies."
No kidding.
No kidding.
T4R_Canuck
Member
I personally struggle with how "connected" new vehicles are becoming, which in turn leads to the ability of a manufacturer to control access to features remotely like they describe in this article.
I purchased a 2018 F150, sold it to a wholesaler a little over a year later and was able to remotely track it throughout its journey from Alberta, Canada, down south to an auction house, then to the dealer who purchased it at auction, then to the new owners home using the Fordpass app. Before selling the truck i wiped the system clean and reinitialized the fordpass app, so I could follow it on its journey. I periodically checked in on its progress to see how long the process took, and ultimately what kind of asking price a US dealer was going to ask for it. Once the vehicle was sold to a private owner, I wiped my access to the vehicle, deleted the app and let the new owner enjoy his truck, but that whole process really made me think about how creepy it is that a manufacturer has that ability to view every vehicle it makes, including tire pressures, how much fuel is in the tank, how long its been since it was serviced, miles driven each year, etc.
Ultimately, if manufacturers go this route, I can see aftermarket companies creating bypass controls or software hacks to solve the subscription requirement just like companies made Auto start/stop bypass modules for the vehicles who come with that feature from factory. I installed one on my f150 the first week I owned the vehicle personally. Best $150 and 15 minutes I ever spent on that vehicle.
Sorry for the long winded response, but this is such a open ended topic.
I purchased a 2018 F150, sold it to a wholesaler a little over a year later and was able to remotely track it throughout its journey from Alberta, Canada, down south to an auction house, then to the dealer who purchased it at auction, then to the new owners home using the Fordpass app. Before selling the truck i wiped the system clean and reinitialized the fordpass app, so I could follow it on its journey. I periodically checked in on its progress to see how long the process took, and ultimately what kind of asking price a US dealer was going to ask for it. Once the vehicle was sold to a private owner, I wiped my access to the vehicle, deleted the app and let the new owner enjoy his truck, but that whole process really made me think about how creepy it is that a manufacturer has that ability to view every vehicle it makes, including tire pressures, how much fuel is in the tank, how long its been since it was serviced, miles driven each year, etc.
Ultimately, if manufacturers go this route, I can see aftermarket companies creating bypass controls or software hacks to solve the subscription requirement just like companies made Auto start/stop bypass modules for the vehicles who come with that feature from factory. I installed one on my f150 the first week I owned the vehicle personally. Best $150 and 15 minutes I ever spent on that vehicle.
Sorry for the long winded response, but this is such a open ended topic.
2021nightshade4x4
New member
What I’m concerned about is the dealer retrofitting a bunch of subscription-based crap onto pre-existing vehicles as part of some “recall”.
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Lexington
Member
Not at all. I find this fascinating but at the same time very disturbing. It’s bad enough that the car can be tracked but being hacked scares me more. The possibilities of someone being able to hack your car and control it is what scares me the most. To be honest I don’t think I will ever buy a new car again. I’ll just keep my 4Runner forever.
Not at all. I find this fascinating but at the same time very disturbing. It’s bad enough that the car can be tracked but being hacked scares me more. The possibilities of someone being able to hack your car and control it is what scares me the most. To be honest I don’t think I will ever buy a new car again. I’ll just keep my 4Runner forever.
Forget hacked. What about some government mandate to keep you home enforced by your connected vehicle? I used to think that was unthinkable. Now, not so much.
Lexington
Member
Yes I’m aware of the new law that the government is requiring a back door kills switch be put in cars by 2026. That’s another reason.
T4R_Canuck
Member
Not at all. I find this fascinating but at the same time very disturbing. It’s bad enough that the car can be tracked but being hacked scares me more. The possibilities of someone being able to hack your car and control it is what scares me the most. To be honest I don’t think I will ever buy a new car again. I’ll just keep my 4Runner forever.
Its quite possible that future cars, possibly even some existing ones (i'm looking at you Tesla) can be remotely hacked and the self driving feature could be controlled by a third party.
To a much lesser extent and probably more realistic for now, its also possible for these features to fail or not work correctly in a given environment and cause a crash, which is the reason I purchased a used 2014 T4R for my offroad rig and not a brand new 2021-22 with TSS. I assume it can be disabled for offroad use, because I can't imagine what the pre collision warning would think when I dip the front end into a mud pit. haha
T4R_Canuck
Member
They're already doing it with personal cell phones. The Canadian government was just found to be tracking the movements of 33 million Canadians during the pandemic. I'm sure, in some way, its happening with vehicles too. Its certainly possible from a hardware standpoint. Insurance companies who give you an OBD dongle to track your driving habits have been doing it for years.
T4R_Canuck
Member
Seems like a valid concern but hopefully hardware limitations of already manufactured vehicles will limit the ability to do that via software updates. Who knows though. :shrug:
2021nightshade4x4
New member
It's a super interesting topic. I've been doing some reading and agree with much of what has been said in this thread. One of the things I think about often is at what point will those of us who don't want to be subject to subscription cars and control need to buy our "dumb" car that we'll need to keep forever.
I've seen on other forums people talking about how once someone figures out autonomous driving to a better degree than it is today, what's to stop them selling that patent and tech to the government and we all end up forced into the autonomous driving box because of the software backend in our connected vehicles. No speeding, no offroading, no racing, none of the things many enthusiasts like to do.
The wormhole is limitless when we go down this path. How quickly some of those things become reality is going to be interesting. I know I can say without a doubt, I'll never buy a car that has subscription heated seats or features that are considered "base" by many buyers today.
I've seen on other forums people talking about how once someone figures out autonomous driving to a better degree than it is today, what's to stop them selling that patent and tech to the government and we all end up forced into the autonomous driving box because of the software backend in our connected vehicles. No speeding, no offroading, no racing, none of the things many enthusiasts like to do.
The wormhole is limitless when we go down this path. How quickly some of those things become reality is going to be interesting. I know I can say without a doubt, I'll never buy a car that has subscription heated seats or features that are considered "base" by many buyers today.
DAW89446
Member
The article linked mentioned a subscription for heated seats. Subscriptions for things like that are a deal killer for me. Such are optional equipment, and if I paid for that optional equipment, it is mine to use as I please. If I have to pay to use what I already bought, that is criminal on the part of the manufacturer, in my opinion. What is next? Pay to start your car with your own key? Pay to turn on the AM and FM radio? Pay to play your own CD? Pay to roll down your window? Pay to use the heater or AC?
I’m a senior and my ‘12 Subaru Outback and ‘18 SR5 are not connected and very likely will be my last vehicles.
I’m a senior and my ‘12 Subaru Outback and ‘18 SR5 are not connected and very likely will be my last vehicles.
Something_Awesome
New member
It's not remote start. There is remote start and remote connect; two different things. Remote start is hardware based, remote connect is software. I believe some cars even have an option for one or the other. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
I am going to be honest, the article in the OP is not being completely honest. It's stretching the truth (at least respect to what I know about Toyota's subscription service). It's a problem when media outlets benefit most from clicks, especially since outrage and/or fear tend to drive the most clicks.
From the article:
Brands including Lexus, Toyota, and Subaru invite owners to pay for the convenience of being able to lock or start their cars remotely through an app.
There is nothing crazy here. You can still use your key fob to lock and unlock your car, as you did since the existence of key fobs, and you can continue to use remote start if the feature was installed, whether you subscribe or not. App/software based functions will be part of the suite of things offered for the subscription. Say you're on the 77th floor of a skyscraper and you want to start your car now. You can do it using the app. This was never available before, free or otherwise. As you can probably realize, in order for such a command to go through, there needs to be data sent to the car from some satellite. This is obviously not free. This is my understanding of how this feature is intended to work.
With all that said, it is very possible other manufacturers will be exploiting consumers. But as of this moment, what Toyota is offering does not seem exploitative.
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ElectroBoy
Banned
Not entirely true.
From Snopes:
Rating:
Mixture
About this rating
What's True
A section of the Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, which passed Congress in December 2021 and has since become law, gave the federal government three years to establish a rule that would require new cars to be “equipped with advanced drunk and impaired driving prevention technology.” However …
What's False
Exactly what that new technology entails has yet to be determined. Furthermore, a host of factors may extend the 2024 deadline for the new rule.
What's Undetermined
There currently is no mention of a "kill switch" that law enforcement could use to "shut your car off."
Does Infrastructure Bill Require Surveillance System in New Vehicles to Track Drivers? | Snopes.com
2021nightshade4x4
New member
The Range Rover’s “Take a break” alert with the coffee cup insults my normal, alert driving. God forbid if it shuts me down on the interstate.
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