Car dealer false advertising help?

[BilboSchwaggins]

The lever only actuates the case, the ADD (Automatic Disconnecting Differential) actuator on the front axle still needs to be commanded by the 4WD ECU to actually connect the front axle to the transfer case.
...clip...
So you can shift the case into 4WD and it will feel like it's in 4WD because of the gearing change, but the front axle may not be locked to the transfer case (I've seen this a couple times).

Like I said, Toyota hasn't made a truly manual 4WD set-up in almost 30yrs aside from that one FJ.

Thank you for the information, good to know and much more informative than the user manual or most toyota-produced videos. I found a thread on 4runner.org about the ADD, will read up on it. I guess there is no substitute for checking out your 4wd at least once a month to make sure it actually works. I do trust Toyota mechatronics more than DaimlerChryslerFiatJeep or GM though. I have two jeeps with many electronic problems, everything from mystery shorts, dead batteries, dead alternators, broken wires in door jambs, etc. Our 41 and 51 jeeps were not like that growing up.

 

[rrroae]

What did the window sticker say?

++++++++++++
Limited

This may open up some options for you.


Especially considering there is no mention otherwise of model on your paperwork.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Ad pic is sr5.

I see stuff like this on autotrader as well.

Dealers either don't know what the heck they're selling or some sort of mix up.

It's called bait and switch. Been around since before you and I were pooping our diapers. ;-)

 

[BlueRidge77]

that doesn't apply

you are not required to disclose everything when you sell something, but what you can not do is misrepresent it. The ad and sticker misrepresented the vehicle.

If the dealership doesn't work in good faith to fix the problem, an attorney shouldn't have much difficulty getting this resolved for you.

This. If they don't make it right for you, you could consider getting an attorney, but then you need to consider the costs. It would most likely be cheaper to take a hit trading than hiring an attorney. (At lease based on what my lawyer charges.... unless he just writes a really good letter...) But then it comes down to the principle of the thing!! Good luck!

 

[Blitzkrieg]

In the end...the binding won't hurt anything at all. It will feel like it is breaking but it's not. :tape2:

Sorry bro, but you and I strongly disagree here.

That clunk clunk and one wheel chirping does not mean your vehicle is happy and yes, you will eventually break shit if you keep up that behavior.

Part time 4WD was never intended to be driven on dry surfaces period. Been that way forever.

 

[Summit]

DEALER CALLED

They were pleasant and I was polite in explaining the situation. At first they were in disbelief that it wasn't a Limited, but realized it was the case although they aren't sure from where the mistake came other than saying they aren't Toyota experts. They agree it is an issue as they were selling a "Limited." I proposed a return or a price difference which I said was at least $4K. I'm guessing they will agree to some money back because they don't want that vehicle back on their lot (it was there 90+ days) any more than I want to drive it back there (not to mention the depreciation of a second owner and an extra 1600 miles). Dealer said "we'll take care of you." It has been escalated to the GM who obviously isn't in on a Sunday but will call me first thing tomorrow.

 

[sooperedd]

I will assume that is an actual photo of the truck or that the truck in your garage looks like that , as already stated that is clearly a SR5 trim 4runner.

Your best option is going to be polity explaining to the dealer what happened and depending on their response try getting USAA involved. As someone already mentioned USAA has a disclaimer so the only reason I image they would get involved is if the dealer provides you rude/poor customer service (by the way just telling you sorry sir, your wife inspected and signed for the car does not equal poor service it equals the facts)

If those are the photos you saw and the truck you expected I think you would have been more shocked has she pulled up in a limited trimmed 4runner(they look nothing like the SR5/Trail(now TRD Offroad)/TRD Pro Trim

Personally If you paid a fair price for the actual truck you got I think chalk this up to a life lesson. With that photo and a couple hours of research you should have known something was off and that it was not a limited just off the looks. I do understand not everyone is a T4R.org member or enthusiasts but you spent almost 40k on something, it deserves your attention unless you are independently wealthy then in that case, go nuts.

SR5's are not AWD you have a part time 4x4 system

Its still a 4runner and a solid vehicle regardless of the trim

It would take 2 minutes and not 2 hours to figure out something ain't right.
A simple look at the rims.
That is a quick tell-tale sign nowadays of the trim level.

Silver lining is that yes you did get an extremely well built SUV.

If something sounds to good to be true, it usually isn't.

 

[Vinsil]

Sorry bro, but you and I strongly disagree here.

That clunk clunk and one wheel chirping does not mean your vehicle is happy and yes, you will eventually break shit if you keep up that behavior.

Part time 4WD was never intended to be driven on dry surfaces period. Been that way forever.

You have obviously never owned a vehicle with a full locker before. :cheers:

I won't continue to muddy this thread with that debate.




OP! Glad they are working with you. I hope they make it right in the end.

 

[Summit]

Sorry bro, but you and I strongly disagree here.

That clunk clunk and one wheel chirping does not mean your vehicle is happy and yes, you will eventually break shit if you keep up that behavior.

Part time 4WD was never intended to be driven on dry surfaces period. Been that way forever.

Making a habit of it seems like a bad idea, but occasional use in mixed wet/dry... they can't possibly be so fragile, can they? People do it all the time...

 

[Vinsil]

Making a habit of it seems like a bad idea, but occasional use in mixed wet/dry... they can't possibly be so fragile, can they? People do it all the time...

They are not that fragile. Watch some rock crawling sometime, then realize the barking you get in a tight turn on dry ground on occasion won't hurt it.

Does it add some stress to things? Sure. End of the world OMG it's gonna blow up? No.:flame:

 

[Blitzkrieg]

You have obviously never owned a vehicle with a full locker before. :cheers:

I won't continue to muddy this thread with that debate.

OP! Glad they are working with you. I hope they make it right in the end.

Gee Mr. Wizard, next are you going to tell us how pissing in an electrical socket is fine too.

You are advising somebody who wanted AWD (Limited) and did not get it that is super fine to run a part time 4WD vehicle in 4WD and just ignore the knocking and banging from the axles binding and that is bullshit.

 

[bamma]

DEALER CALLED

They were pleasant and I was polite in explaining the situation. At first they were in disbelief that it wasn't a Limited, but realized it was the case although they aren't sure from where the mistake came other than saying they aren't Toyota experts. They agree it is an issue as they were selling a "Limited." I proposed a return or a price difference which I said was at least $4K. I'm guessing they will agree to some money back because they don't want that vehicle back on their lot (it was there 90+ days) any more than I want to drive it back there (not to mention the depreciation of a second owner and an extra 1600 miles). Dealer said "we'll take care of you." It has been escalated to the GM who obviously isn't in on a Sunday but will call me first thing tomorrow.

Hopefully they will take care of you.

 

[Vinsil]

Gee Mr. Wizard, next are you going to tell us how pissing in an electrical socket is fine too.

You are advising somebody who wanted AWD (Limited) and did not get it that is super fine to run a part time 4WD vehicle in 4WD and just ignore the knocking and banging from the axles binding and that is bullshit.

:moping:


Look OP, if 4x4's aren't to be used in snow and wet weather.....what are they for? I think the guy above is trying to look out for you which is nice but he is wrong. Now would I advise you to lock it in and do figure 8 turns in a dry parking lot for hours on end? No. But I think your a logical person so I think you will come to a logical conclusion here.

 

[Summit]

Does VSC disable in 4hi on the 5th gen?

 

[ADK Explorer]

I had a similar situation when searching for Pros. A dealer in Southwest had one listed a great price. Upon closer look at pics online realized it was an SR5. They had the badge blurred in the pics.

If it seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Get the dealer to send emails from his account summarizing all phone conversations. You want a paper trail. If he admits the mistake you now have firm legal ground to stand on. Get it in writing!

This is a life lesson but at least you didn't get spanked too hard. Pay attention to details. Also when it comes to people wanting to get your money from you, a little paranoia doesn't hurt.

I hope this works out for you and your wife as painlessly as possible and you get a Limited that you'll both love.

 

[Vinsil]

Does VSC disable in 4hi on the 5th gen?

No. 4 high is to be used as OP is wanting. Snow and iced/wet roads. Some people think you cant use it on the road which is completely false.

 

[ToyoDriver]

Personally If you paid a fair price for the actual truck you got I think chalk this up to a life lesson. With that photo and a couple hours of research you should have known something was off and that it was not a limited just off the looks. I do understand not everyone is a T4R.org member or enthusiasts but you spent almost 40k on something, it deserves your attention unless you are independently wealthy then in that case, go nuts.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

:moping:


Look OP, if 4x4's aren't to be used in snow and wet weather.....what are they for? I think the guy above is trying to look out for you which is nice but he is wrong. Now would I advise you to lock it in and do figure 8 turns in a dry parking lot for hours on end? No. But I think your a logical person so I think you will come to a logical conclusion here.

Stubborn ****er aren't you?

OP said his girlfriend wants to throw it in 4WD all the time, rain or shine just like her Subaru. Read his post.

Not once did I say doing such on snow or slick roads is a bad idea. THAT is what they are made for.

This is right from the Toyota website. Unless you are prepared to prove you know more than the Toyota engineers or 95% of us, I'll stick with what I said:

Drivetrain Binding on Dry Pavement
The way a part-time 4wd system is designed
both front and rear axles rotate at
the same speed when 4wd mode is engaged.
This splits power at 50% front and
50% rear. On dry pavement this will cause
the drivetrain to bind when vehicle is attempting
any type of turn. Drivetrain binding
causes severe strain on various 4wd
drive components. Therefore 4wd mode on
these vehicles should only be engaged in
slippery conditions such as off road driving
and poor road conditions.

Source: http://toyotaia.com/intranet/misc/4wd simplified one page.pdf

 

[Vinsil]

Stubborn ****er aren't you?

OP said his girlfriend wants to throw it in 4WD all the time, rain or shine just like her Subaru. Read his post.

Not once did I say doing such on snow or slick roads is a bad idea. THAT is what they are made for.

This is right from the Toyota website. Unless you are prepared to prove you know more than the Toyota engineers or 95% of us, I'll stick with what I said:

Drivetrain Binding on Dry Pavement
The way a part-time 4wd system is designed
both front and rear axles rotate at
the same speed when 4wd mode is engaged.
This splits power at 50% front and
50% rear. On dry pavement this will cause
the drivetrain to bind when vehicle is attempting
any type of turn. Drivetrain binding
causes severe strain on various 4wd
drive components. Therefore 4wd mode on
these vehicles should only be engaged in
slippery conditions such as off road driving
and poor road conditions.

Source: http://toyotaia.com/intranet/misc/4wd simplified one page.pdf

First off, I don't know why your calling me names in this, we simply don't agree on this and the OP made this statement about the intended use.

What we want is the best performance in the snow of any vehicle out there with zero compromise in emergency maneuvering that let us be the fastest/safest possible in snow/packed snow conditions that are prevalent 6mo of the year.

I felt like 4th gen T4R and the 11 Outback both delivered exactly that when outfitted with narrow DMV1s.

If 4H binding is a feel thing and not a performance compromise except in parking lots, then no problem. I guess I can simulate by driving the 07 T4R around with the center locked?

So, he wanted to know if he could use the truck in THOSE conditions and then asked if it will hurt it to use on pavement such as parking lots. It won't. I also don't think you represent 95% of people on here either. He won't hurt the truck.

Toyota is concerned with the liability of the way the vehicle will handle in dry conditions and...as I pointed out higher stresses in the drivetrain. I have owned multiple vehicles with full Detroit lockers, lunchbox lockers and even a full spool. Guess what? Your not supposed to use those on pavement either!

So your also saying people who rock crawl, drive on slick rock in Moab are going to destroy their trucks too? :crazy: those are high traction situations! Oh no!


You obviously aren't going to see my points on this and your more than welcome to continue to think the way you do but your WRONG. Period.

 

[1engineer]

Let it go guys. Hopefully [MENTION=44432]Summit[/MENTION] will do a bit more research on this topic himself. Like reading the owners manual.
-mod-